Diesel vs hybrid

kjfishman · **Posted:** Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:29 pm

Dodge announced the Durango Hybrid Hemi/electric 300 volt system, 21 city 21 highway. They say the hybrid will tow 6k but you can be sure thats running on gas and mileage will be low teens or less when towing. Why don't they just put a 6 cyl diesel instead? I am thinking a diesel has to have lower initial cost and lower cost to operate in the long run.

Would you buy a v8/hybrid?

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:59 pm

I said no because a V8 Hybrid is not the most efficient or cost effective solution...Diesel or Hybrid Diesel would be a viable option...even an I6 Gas Hybrid might be economically viable...but for heavy towing a straight Diesel is the way to go.

bbo · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:17 pm **Posts:** 382

I clicked no as well.

I would think a vehicle that would be a true 100% biodiesel manufacturer warranted hybrid would be the ticket ...

anyone ever come across any hybrid diesel in any application? even industrial?

plus 21mpg for a hybrid .. I would expect 30MPG at a minimum to effeciently tow 6k ... now that would be a breakthrough.

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

I said maybe as I would have to look at MPG ratings, cost of battery replacement, durability, etc before making a choice. I think that a diesel would be a "simpler" solution, but its not as sexy right now

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

I voted no, as the hybrid drive train is certain to add a price premium to the vehicle, and you can already buy any of a dozen SUV's rated to tow 6000 pounds that break 21 mpg on the highway, and get close to it in the city. I traded a 2004 V6 4Runner for my CRD, and it already hit that mark quite handily.

IMO, this is another example of US car makers just not getting it. No one is buying the US made hybrids already on the market that get less than 25 mpg. What's the point? This is just putting lipstick on a pig.

If Honda sticks the 3.0 liter diesel in the Pilot/Ridgeline, as rumored, you would have a vehicle with similar size and towing capacity likely getting at least 30 mpg on the highway. What in the world would compel a consumer to prefer a 21 mpg hybrid over it?

I feel like it is 1980 all over again, with the US automakers touting their leap from 16 mpg to 20 mpg, and scratching their heads as to why consumers are flocking to 30 mpg Japanese cars.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:15 pm

A diesel electric hybrid would be the best.

IMO a series hybrid would be the best application. i.e. locomotive

I think VW put together a Lupo diesel series hybrid that got better than
100 mpg. It was only a test model.
Also, a group in England built a Mini hybrid. It had a 2-cyl diesel coupled
to a generator, a battery pack, and one electric motor in each wheel. It
got better than 100 mpg too. Again, research/test model only.

I also read about a company in Canada that was building series hybrid
delivery trucks. I think they were all built off the Sprinter chassis.

The GreenGoat locomotive uses two small diesel GenSets + betteries. It
can run on batteries alone or 1 or 2 GenSets depending on demand.

litton · **Posted:** Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:35 pm

I did a no....do you have any idea of how much space the batteries take and what they weigh? Sorry Jeep, not in my idea of a Jeep should be.

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:58 pm

My CRD can get 30 or better and will tow 5K so what does this buy me, not much. I said NO.

AZ CRD · **Posted:** Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:30 pm

I voted 'No'

And, Threeweight, I couldn't have said it better myself.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:45 pm

For those who live in Washington D.C., Manhattan, or some other place where you spend more time stopped than going, a hybrid could be a good choice. Since I don't live in Washington D.C. or Manhattan, I vote for diesel with my wallet and own a Liberty CRD and my Wife a VW New Beetle TDI. A V8 hybrid truck, what is the point? Toyota wants $5K for their battery pack that is fed by a small 4cyl, I would bet a battery pack for a fed by V8 in a pickup would cost around $10K. You could buy a V8 diesel engine for that much money. I will stick to shelling out $139 or so for my Optima battery when it needs to be replaced instead and keep my Jeep. With all that weight from the battery pack it will make the V8 hybrid a great towing tractor, but when you add extra weight to the chassis, you reduce hauling capacity.
When Hydrogen or other fuel cells become economical, I will take a look, until then, diesel is the most practical choice.

Steve

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:51 pm

This is entirely dependent on the fuel savings relative to the added cost of the hybrid equipment. When I looked at a Honda Civic Hybrid a couple of years ago, it would take almost 200K miles to recover the additional aquisition cost of the vehicle in fuel savings. So without the tax credits, would not have even considered it on the list for me.

I voted for a maybe. What I have read about this system is the city improvements are good but the highway gains are minimal. For 21 MPG, it would have to be almost free to be worth it. I'm getting comparable highway mileage out of my Silverado 4X4 running a 5.3L AFM/flex-fuel engine. The manufacturers have a long way to go before this technology is truely marketable.

bhysjulien · **Posted:** Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:32 am

I voted no. If I were going to buy a hybrid I'd like to have the choice between diesel/electric or diesel/hydraulic. If I knew going in I'd be doing a lot of towing I would go with a straight diesel.

cocojo · **Posted:** Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:42 am

If Honda would put a diesel engine in their ridgeline I would be there tomorrow. Are they thinking about doing this?

litton · **Posted:** Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:42 am

Dodge was going to put a small diesel into the 1500 series trucks and in the Durango as well. I wonder what happened to that plan. I do tow a TT with my GC HEMI and I certainly would not want to drop the capacity done to 6K. My plan is to buy a GC CRD when it's time to get a new vehicle.

Outside of the PR value, I think Dodge is going to waste a heck of a lot of money.

BiodieselJeep.com · **Posted:** Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:48 am

bbo wrote:

I clicked no as well.

I would think a vehicle that would be a true 100% biodiesel manufacturer warranted hybrid would be the ticket ...

anyone ever come across any hybrid diesel in any application? even industrial?

GM had an Opel Astra diesel-electric Hybrid in the 1990's, mpg is the 60-70's mpg in a test fleet. Now DC (would you BELIEVE?)has ESX2 diesel electric hybrid at 72 mpg. Just to name a few. All in europe. Here's a link that lists a few hybrids etc:

http://www.hybrid-vehicles.net/gm-opel- ... hybrid.htm

bbo · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:17 pm **Posts:** 382

great info ... I'm sure if someone was to mass produce these, they would start catching on ( and I don't see fuel prices dropping etremely anytime soon ( I would think it would help shore up the dollar as well)

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:02 pm

If you remember the PNGV program from back in the 90's, who's ultimate goal was to create a full-size sedan capable of 80 mpg, at the end of the 10 year program all 3 of the OEM's submitted the same type of vehicle as a prototype - a diesel electric hybrid. But then old Lonesome George promptly canceled the program within weeks of taking office back in '01.

nescosmo · **Joined:** Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:17 pm **Posts:** 202

retmil46 wrote:

If you remember the PNGV program from back in the 90's, who's ultimate goal was to create a full-size sedan capable of 80 mpg, at the end of the 10 year program all 3 of the OEM's submitted the same type of vehicle as a prototype - a diesel electric hybrid. But then old Lonesome George promptly canceled the program within weeks of taking office back in '01.

The problem is that the car companys are not making any money selling their vehicle in the USA, so there is no way that they will go with the diesel or what so ever. The only way that they will make money is with the hybrid; The hybrid is a vehicle that wll no last and they know it. - It will be the ticket for their success-. That is why they are pushing the hybrid and not the diesel. In Europe the diesel are very expensive and people buy it; Here GC no body look it at it because the price. So I go for the Diesel,- I already have mine.- The CRD!.

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

Cars sell because of performance, value, and marketing. Given current gas prices and consumer demands, the US automakers are taking it in the shorts on #1 and 2, and 3 ain't looking so hot. Slapping a "hybrid" badge on something that performs about the same as a normal vehicle isn't going to make for a sales success. Despite the media hype, hybrids are still a tiny part of the overall market.

And when car buyers start shopping around, even hybrids that actually deliver the goods lose some of their luster. VW is betting heavily on the notion that if they can get a potential Prius buyer out of that shoe box of a car and into a TDI Jetta, the Jetta's larger interior, better handling, greater creature comforts, more attractive appearance, and similar mpg will convert them. It certainly converted my wife.

I don't think the average Joe or Jill out there is gravitating towards hybrids on their own... lots and lots of advertising dollars, plus lots of media hype, are driving it (the same way it drove soccer moms to buy 12 mpg Suburbans for the city commutes). Honda, VW, Subie, etc... are pretty familiar with running slick ad campaigns.

Check out this Honda diesel commercial from England touting their new clean diesels....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXf5UUnLzwQ

dog_party · **Posted:** Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:19 pm

Gasser hybrid. *Pbbbt* Vote = NO.

Diesel vs hybrid

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