Inmotion Tune and Winterized Diesel

crawdad-480 · **Joined:** Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:03 pm **Posts:** 47

I got the inmotion stage 2 tunning about a month ago. So far I have put roughly 650 miles on the tune
so far and it is a vast improvement over the rotten crap jeep put in with the F37. The driveablity is
better and it seems to have a lot more torque than it did after the F37. I think that jeep reduced the
torque by more than the 5 ft-lbs they claim. I have been calculating the mileage and so far I've been happy
with the tune. (25 mpg, 65% city). However, the last time I gassed up I only got 21.8 mpg (45% city).

I've still got the crappy F37 torque converter. I've managed to shudder the transmission a couple of times
so I watch my driving and stay pretty conservative. Suncoast converter will be the next mod.

I'm sure that winterized diesel has hit the pumps, so I'm curious as to how much of a mileage drop
people are seeing with the winterized diesel? I am more interested in improving my mileage as much
as possible so I'm debating if I want to send my ECM back for the ECO tune, but I do not want to jump
the gun.

Thanks

litton · **Posted:** Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:48 am

Well, I just got back from a 3500 mile round trip to Polson. MT. This is my second trip and in Sept I avg ~27mpg driving at 84 mph. Ths trip I started off at 26 and once I hit cold weather and started using winter blends the mileage dropped to 22. On the way home I was running 22 then filled up in Las Vegas and the mileage jumped to 27 and has been then since.

To me, that suggests that winter blend definitly produces less energy.

FYI, I have noticed the same thing with my gasser also.

bdptp73 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:05 pm

I went from an average of 24 MPG to about 21.5 MPG in the last 2 weeks. I'm hoping it is due to winter fuel. :?:

CATCRD · **Posted:** Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:05 pm

I also saw about a 3 mpg drop last week.

chrispitude · **Posted:** Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:09 pm

Our mileage has gone in the crapper too, and it feels worse this year with the Inmotion tune than I remember it being last year. Of course, we have a torn intecooler hose which is scheduled to be fixed by the dealer this Friday, so maybe that will help.

- Chris

retmil46 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:03 pm

Another item to chew on - from what I've heard, you see a noticeable difference with the Inmotion tune when going from the basic ORM to the SEGR - ie, with the SEGR, it's not running in fault mode seeing a "failed" MAF sensor.

As far as a torn intercooler hose - considering that the Inmotion tune brings on boost much earlier, I'd hazard that would have a negative effect on fuel mileage.

Uffe · **Posted:** Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:02 am

What? Winterized diesel? Who told you that??

What you're experiencing is the denser air caused by lower temperatures. Your aerodynamic drag increases linearly with air density, and while hot air is less dense than cold air you get more drag thus spend more energy plowing through the air.

We don't have "winterized diesel" in Denmark and I think normal diesel is operational until a temp of -17C (0F)...

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:41 pm

Uffe wrote:

What? Winterized diesel? Who told you that??

What you're experiencing is the denser air caused by lower temperatures. Your aerodynamic drag increases linearly with air density, and while hot air is less dense than cold air you get more drag thus spend more energy plowing through the air.

We don't have "winterized diesel" in Denmark and I think normal diesel is operational until a temp of -17C (0F)...

it doesn't get below -17C in denmark?

Uffe · **Posted:** Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:03 pm

No it doesn't get below -17C in Denmark.

If you go below -17C then your primary concern is not the additives to the fuel but rather the added drag of the air. My theory at least.

In Denmark I suspect I will go down at least 2-3MPGs during winter timer because of the heavier air. I've already gone down 2MPGs from end september till now. Coldest month in Denmark is february though.

Just did my first oil change + oil filter + air filter + fuel filter so probably cannot track the actual MPGs from the old setup (brand, specs unknown). Normally a better oil gives better MPGs...

Base of calculations is roughly 4 liters per gallon and 1,6kilometer per mile. I've gone from 10km/l to 9.2km/l on a tank. Gives approximately 2MPGs.

Wanted to add my recorded numbers as I am not sure of the 100% correct way to convert km/l to MPG.

0311_DoC · **Posted:** Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:19 pm

retmil46 wrote:

Another item to chew on - from what I've heard, you see a noticeable difference with the Inmotion tune when going from the basic ORM to the SEGR - ie, with the SEGR, it's not running in fault mode seeing a "failed" MAF sensor.

can you expand on this thought for us non technical types :roll:

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:35 pm

Uffe wrote:

No it doesn't get below -17C in Denmark.

If you go below -17C then your primary concern is not the additives to the fuel but rather the added drag of the air. My theory at least.

In Denmark I suspect I will go down at least 2-3MPGs during winter timer because of the heavier air. I've already gone down 2MPGs from end september till now. Coldest month in Denmark is february though.

Just did my first oil change + oil filter + air filter + fuel filter so probably cannot track the actual MPGs from the old setup (brand, specs unknown). Normally a better oil gives better MPGs...

Base of calculations is roughly 4 liters per gallon and 1,6kilometer per mile. I've gone from 10km/l to 9.2km/l on a tank. Gives approximately 2MPGs.

Wanted to add my recorded numbers as I am not sure of the 100% correct way to convert km/l to MPG.

How odd, I guess all the water nearby regulates the temperature pretty well.

CATCRD · **Posted:** Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:34 pm

Uffe wrote:

What? Winterized diesel? Who told you that??

What you're experiencing is the denser air caused by lower temperatures. Your aerodynamic drag increases linearly with air density, and while hot air is less dense than cold air you get more drag thus spend more energy plowing through the air.

We don't have "winterized diesel" in Denmark and I think normal diesel is operational until a temp of -17C (0F)...

Since it obviously gets colder in the US than in Denmark, some fuel suppliers cut the fuel with kerosene or other ingredients to lower the gel point. Kerosene has slightly lower BTUs/lb, so therefore a slight drop in mpg. You are correct that denser air will also lower mpgs. The two factors are probably about equal IMO.

Uffe · **Posted:** Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:52 am

Sir Sam wrote:

How odd, I guess all the water nearby regulates the temperature pretty well.

It does. It sucks both ways. We don't get much cold winters with clear skies, we get rain or snow that melts when it hits the ground most of the time. During summer we don't get hot weather either because the sea is still cold from winter. It's called mild coastal climate. What we more or less have is autumn all year round, just sometimes it gets hot enough to only wear t-shirt and shorts. And then the next weekend its back to sub 20C again.

CATCRD wrote:

Since it obviously gets colder in the US than in Denmark, some fuel suppliers cut the fuel with kerosene or other ingredients to lower the gel point. Kerosene has slightly lower BTUs/lb, so therefore a slight drop in mpg. You are correct that denser air will also lower mpgs. The two factors are probably about equal IMO.

Okay - but why would they put it in so early in the winter? Is it already dangerously close to -17c at nights?

Sorry I'm not much of a geographic expert regarding temps in the US, but let me in on some information please

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:32 am

Uffe wrote:

Sir Sam wrote:

How odd, I guess all the water nearby regulates the temperature pretty well.

It does. It sucks both ways. We don't get much cold winters with clear skies, we get rain or snow that melts when it hits the ground most of the time. During summer we don't get hot weather either because the sea is still cold from winter. It's called mild coastal climate. What we more or less have is autumn all year round, just sometimes it gets hot enough to only wear t-shirt and shorts. And then the next weekend its back to sub 20C again.

CATCRD wrote:

Since it obviously gets colder in the US than in Denmark, some fuel suppliers cut the fuel with kerosene or other ingredients to lower the gel point. Kerosene has slightly lower BTUs/lb, so therefore a slight drop in mpg. You are correct that denser air will also lower mpgs. The two factors are probably about equal IMO.

Okay - but why would they put it in so early in the winter? Is it already dangerously close to -17c at nights?

Sorry I'm not much of a geographic expert regarding temps in the US, but let me in on some information please

it is -8C here now.

Where CATCRD and I are is in the smack dab middle of the country at about 1,550 M elevation. We are at least 1,900 kilometers from a large body of water to regulate temperatures. Our state is also the highest average state in the US, meaning we get some temperature swings.

Average year round temp vary from about -8C to 30C in the summer, though we have plenty of days where the temp reaches about 35 or 37C.

At this time of the year we can have mornings that are 15C and an evening that is 2C. Since the temperatures can vary greatly at this time of the year the fuel needs to be updated relatively soon. Large underground tanks of gelled diesel do no one any good, for that matter a sudden cold snap is more likely to affect your exposed gas tank and gel up more quickly than an underground tank.

In addition to different diesel blends gasoline blends get a little boost of ethanol in the winter months. The result is a gas that burns better under the colder conditions, but contains less BTUs per gallon.

Basically, we have to get winter blends sooner because of the margin of error for having the right fuel for the temps.

I wonder how soon some of the canucks switch to winter diesel?

fun fact:
over the years I have heard of one or two people who consumed alcohol that has been chilled outside, seems that someone got the bright idea that when its -20C out its a good way to chill down theit vodka, the person then drinks the supercooled liquid and manages to freeze burn their throat.

I also once read an account of someone who tried to drink liquid nitrogen, of course, they tried this AFTER they had been drinking alcohol. I'm guessing that their decision making skills were not at their peak after imbibing alcohol.

Uffe · **Posted:** Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:45 am

Sir Sam wrote:

it is -8C here now.

Where CATCRD and I are is in the smack dab middle of the country at about 1,550 M elevation. We are at least 1,900 kilometers from a large body of water to regulate temperatures. Our state is also the highest average state in the US, meaning we get some temperature swings.

Average year round temp vary from about -8C to 30C in the summer, though we have plenty of days where the temp reaches about 35 or 37C.

At this time of the year we can have mornings that are 15C and an evening that is 2C. Since the temperatures can vary greatly at this time of the year the fuel needs to be updated relatively soon. Large underground tanks of gelled diesel do no one any good, for that matter a sudden cold snap is more likely to affect your exposed gas tank and gel up more quickly than an underground tank.

In addition to different diesel blends gasoline blends get a little boost of ethanol in the winter months. The result is a gas that burns better under the colder conditions, but contains less BTUs per gallon.

Basically, we have to get winter blends sooner because of the margin of error for having the right fuel for the temps.

I wonder how soon some of the canucks switch to winter diesel?

fun fact:
over the years I have heard of one or two people who consumed alcohol that has been chilled outside, seems that someone got the bright idea that when its -20C out its a good way to chill down theit vodka, the person then drinks the supercooled liquid and manages to freeze burn their throat.

I also once read an account of someone who tried to drink liquid nitrogen, of course, they tried this AFTER they had been drinking alcohol. I'm guessing that their decision making skills were not at their peak after imbibing alcohol.

Oh my... that's cold, and also such huge fluctuations in temperature. Now I perfectly understand why you guys need it so fast. Sorry for my early ignorance. The tallest hill in Denmark is 172m. Countries don't get much flatter than this!

In Denmark we chill our "Gamle Dansk" (alcohol made on apples with some added spices) in our deep freezer (-18C) and then we drink it in small portions using a 2cl glass (approx.). Can't imagine it would be a good idea to drink such cold liquid in larger quantities... that would lead to what you describe.

And drinking liquid nitrogen is like playing with death. Nitrogen gets insanely cold when liquid. At least -196C.

CATCRD · **Posted:** Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:07 pm

Uffe wrote:

Sir Sam wrote:

How odd, I guess all the water nearby regulates the temperature pretty well.

It does. It sucks both ways. We don't get much cold winters with clear skies, we get rain or snow that melts when it hits the ground most of the time. During summer we don't get hot weather either because the sea is still cold from winter. It's called mild coastal climate. What we more or less have is autumn all year round, just sometimes it gets hot enough to only wear t-shirt and shorts. And then the next weekend its back to sub 20C again.

CATCRD wrote:

Since it obviously gets colder in the US than in Denmark, some fuel suppliers cut the fuel with kerosene or other ingredients to lower the gel point. Kerosene has slightly lower BTUs/lb, so therefore a slight drop in mpg. You are correct that denser air will also lower mpgs. The two factors are probably about equal IMO.

Okay - but why would they put it in so early in the winter? Is it already dangerously close to -17c at nights?

Sorry I'm not much of a geographic expert regarding temps in the US, but let me in on some information please

It was -15F/-26C in Breckenridge last week.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:04 pm

Uffe wrote:

Oh my... that's cold, and also such huge fluctuations in temperature. Now I perfectly understand why you guys need it so fast. Sorry for my early ignorance. The tallest hill in Denmark is 172m. Countries don't get much flatter than this!

In Denmark we chill our "Gamle Dansk" (alcohol made on apples with some added spices) in our deep freezer (-18C) and then we drink it in small portions using a 2cl glass (approx.). Can't imagine it would be a good idea to drink such cold liquid in larger quantities... that would lead to what you describe.

And drinking liquid nitrogen is like playing with death. Nitrogen gets insanely cold when liquid. At least -196C.

Well, apparently, and I don't feel like trying this, you can hold liquid nitrogen in your mouth without harm, apparently it vaporizes just above the surface of your tongue and mouth. Still its not something I would want to try at all.

CATCRD wrote:

Uffe wrote:

Sir Sam wrote:

How odd, I guess all the water nearby regulates the temperature pretty well.

It does. It sucks both ways. We don't get much cold winters with clear skies, we get rain or snow that melts when it hits the ground most of the time. During summer we don't get hot weather either because the sea is still cold from winter. It's called mild coastal climate. What we more or less have is autumn all year round, just sometimes it gets hot enough to only wear t-shirt and shorts. And then the next weekend its back to sub 20C again.

CATCRD wrote:

Since it obviously gets colder in the US than in Denmark, some fuel suppliers cut the fuel with kerosene or other ingredients to lower the gel point. Kerosene has slightly lower BTUs/lb, so therefore a slight drop in mpg. You are correct that denser air will also lower mpgs. The two factors are probably about equal IMO.

Okay - but why would they put it in so early in the winter? Is it already dangerously close to -17c at nights?

Sorry I'm not much of a geographic expert regarding temps in the US, but let me in on some information please

It was -15F/-26C in Breckenridge last week.

Yup, thats cold.

Inmotion Tune and Winterized Diesel

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