Is the CRD offered in manual anywhere in the world?

Uffe · **Posted:** Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:59 pm

Sir Sam wrote:

honestly though, its alot of trouble just to get a manual in the Jeep. and IMO, I never much cared for a manual jeep when 4wheelin. dirving around town, highways, sure, but wheelin, gimme an auto.

Why is that? This is my first auto box so I'm a little interested in the aspects of wheeling it. Been out once so far and loved it, but didn't do anything hard to it. I stayed in full-time nearly all the time ... except for a hill that I got so stuck on I couldn't be brought down it unless the winch was pulled out. So I was pulled up using a winch instead, and I had to engage 4LO to help myself when the winch got hold of me, the TC just span around and the tyres were not moving.

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

onthehunt wrote:

I'm pretty sure it was emissions. They can control rpm's with the auto trans to increase egr use and prolong the systems life.

If so, VW knows something that Chrysler didn't. You could get a 2006 Jetta TDI with a manual tranny that met US emissions at the time.

I looked at a used one two months ago at a VW dealer in Washington (06 TDI manual, less than 5k miles on it). If my wife could drive a manual, I would have bought it.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:22 pm

Uffe wrote:

IIRC EGR only comes on when the engine is cold, so the EGR issue is also very limited.

You do not remember correctly.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:51 pm

Quote:

If so, VW knows something that Chrysler didn't. You could get a 2006 Jetta TDI with a manual tranny that met US emissions at the time.

Apples to oranges!!!

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

onthehunt wrote:

Apples to oranges!!!

The implication of saying "it was emissions" that prevented Chrysler from offering a Liberty CRD with a manual is that it was not possible to get a diesel engine to meet passenger vehicle emissions standards in 2006 without an auto tranny.

If VW's use of manuals in their diesels is "apples to oranges", then the more accurate statement would be "Chrysler was not capable of designing an emissions system that could pass muster in 2005 and 2006 without using an automatic transmission."

In any event, as Chrysler has stated publicly, they wanted to cheaply produce 10,000 CRD's for the US market as a test run regarding consumer demand (and they ended up making 11,000 or so). Given that the vast majority of new vehicles sold in the US are autos, and Chrysler intended to cancel the vehicle for the US after two years anyway, it likely didn't make sense to spend the money required to offer it with a manual option.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:58 pm

Uffe wrote:

Sir Sam wrote:

honestly though, its alot of trouble just to get a manual in the Jeep. and IMO, I never much cared for a manual jeep when 4wheelin. dirving around town, highways, sure, but wheelin, gimme an auto.

Why is that? This is my first auto box so I'm a little interested in the aspects of wheeling it. Been out once so far and loved it, but didn't do anything hard to it. I stayed in full-time nearly all the time ... except for a hill that I got so stuck on I couldn't be brought down it unless the winch was pulled out. So I was pulled up using a winch instead, and I had to engage 4LO to help myself when the winch got hold of me, the TC just span around and the tyres were not moving.

Its hard to explain, but essentially without regearing IMO a stick is much worse for wheelin than an auto.

and if you regear then you loose alot of other driveability.

honestly though, I never use part time hi, only LO. if I use 4wd its part time, or direct to low range. when I wheel I ONLY use low range.

most of that comes down to matter of opinion, but I think an auto is much better for wheelin, and with the control that the KJ has over the gears hill descent is much easyer. the cherokee has a horrible 1-2 setup that never lets you stay in the 1st/2nd gear that you want.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:58 pm

Uffe wrote:

Sir Sam wrote:

honestly though, its alot of trouble just to get a manual in the Jeep. and IMO, I never much cared for a manual jeep when 4wheelin. dirving around town, highways, sure, but wheelin, gimme an auto.

Why is that? This is my first auto box so I'm a little interested in the aspects of wheeling it. Been out once so far and loved it, but didn't do anything hard to it. I stayed in full-time nearly all the time ... except for a hill that I got so stuck on I couldn't be brought down it unless the winch was pulled out. So I was pulled up using a winch instead, and I had to engage 4LO to help myself when the winch got hold of me, the TC just span around and the tyres were not moving.

Its hard to explain, but essentially without regearing IMO a stick is much worse for wheelin than an auto.

and if you regear then you loose alot of other driveability.

honestly though, I never use part time hi, only LO. if I use 4wd its part time, or direct to low range. when I wheel I ONLY use low range.

most of that comes down to matter of opinion, but I think an auto is much better for wheelin, and with the control that the KJ has over the gears hill descent is much easyer. the cherokee has a horrible 1-2 setup that never lets you stay in the 1st/2nd gear that you want.

Uffe · **Posted:** Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:15 am

Goglio704 wrote:

Uffe wrote:

IIRC EGR only comes on when the engine is cold, so the EGR issue is also very limited.

You do not remember correctly.

Is the EGR operated even under normal operation?

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:58 am

Uffe wrote:

Goglio704 wrote:

Uffe wrote:

IIRC EGR only comes on when the engine is cold, so the EGR issue is also very limited.

You do not remember correctly.

Is the EGR operated even under normal operation?

Yes it is. If I get a chance, I'll try to find a relevant quote from the service manual, but it is active under normal driving.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:07 pm

Threeweight wrote:

onthehunt wrote:

Apples to oranges!!!

The implication of saying "it was emissions" that prevented Chrysler from offering a Liberty CRD with a manual is that it was not possible to get a diesel engine to meet passenger vehicle emissions standards in 2006 without an auto tranny.

If VW's use of manuals in their diesels is "apples to oranges", then the more accurate statement would be "Chrysler was not capable of designing an emissions system that could pass muster in 2005 and 2006 without using an automatic transmission."

In any event, as Chrysler has stated publicly, they wanted to cheaply produce 10,000 CRD's for the US market as a test run regarding consumer demand (and they ended up making 11,000 or so). Given that the vast majority of new vehicles sold in the US are autos, and Chrysler intended to cancel the vehicle for the US after two years anyway, it likely didn't make sense to spend the money required to offer it with a manual option.

Interestingly enough, the export CRD KJ with the manual transmission has some different parts than the auto (US or Export). The cylinder head is a different part number for one thing. I think it is fair to say that the export manual probably wouldn't meet US emissions and that Chrysler was at least unwilling to spend the money to develop an emissions package. Even the cost of getting it tested could have been more than they were willing to spend.

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

Goglio704 wrote:

Interestingly enough, the export CRD KJ with the manual transmission has some different parts than the auto (US or Export). The cylinder head is a different part number for one thing. I think it is fair to say that the export manual probably wouldn't meet US emissions and that Chrysler was at least unwilling to spend the money to develop an emissions package. Even the cost of getting it tested could have been more than they were willing to spend.

I agree. It took some re-engineering to get the CRD to meet US Specs with an auto, and would have taken the same thing all over again with a manual. Plus the need to create a parts supply pipeline to support the manual option in the US. Not worth the headache for a limited production vehicle Chrysler knew from the start they would cancel in 2 years.

I was reacting to the usual "can't make a manual meet US emissions" argument.

However, it wouldn't surprise me if the different head cover had less to do with engineering than with some "5 speed" lettering painted on it.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:06 pm

I think it took a lot more than "some" reegineering to make the crd US compatable. It barely made it as it is and wasn't for sale in CA,NY, and all the others who adapt CARB rules. I think it's fair to say it wouldn't have made it as a manual trans jeep without substantial additional costs. A manual trans diesel without exh aftertreatmeant has the potential to pollute more becuase you can lug it as much as you want.

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

Could you refer me to any articles/news where the Liberty CRD "barely made it as it is"?

It met Euro IV standards in with a manual transmission sold in Europe, which are more stringent than what was in place in the US in 2005 (but not the 07 standards). The new version of our engine (VM calls it the "Panther") is supposed to be cleaner still (as well as producing more power) through the use of a different injection system and aluminum block.

It's a moot point as 2005 and 2006 are rapidly dwindling into history, but I just don't buy the notion that there was some huge engineering obstacle to designing a clean diesel with a manual. Tens of thousands of VW Passats, Jetta's, Golfs, and Beetles sold in the US w/ manuals say otherwise.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:52 pm

Quote:

Could you refer me to any articles/news where the Liberty CRD "barely made it as it is"?

Nope. It wasn't legal to sell new in the states I mentioned for emmissions. The huge egr duty cycle also tells me they had to push it to the ragged edge to pass.

Quote:

which are more stringent than what was in place in the US in 2005 (but not the 07 standards).

Not true. See above.

[/quote]Tens of thousands of VW Passats, Jetta's, Golfs, and Beetles sold in the US w/ manuals say otherwise.

Quote:

Are you implying that crd and the vw diesel emit the same amount?? These two engines couldn't be more different. In design and application.

Quote:

It's a moot point

I agree. I would have bought a manual if it was avaliable!!!

jinstall · **Posted:** Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:24 pm

Fines are going up in Germany this year for diesels.

Is the CRD offered in manual anywhere in the world?

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