Potential New Owner

galatron · **Posted:** Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:32 pm

Hi I'm looking to buy a '06 CRD I'd like to run it on straight biodiesel. How does the Jeep like that stuff? what kind of milage does the CRD get on B100? What's the consensus on the four wheel drive? do I understand that it can be used as all wheel drive? When towing, how does it perform? any highway "wiggle" when towing something long and somewhat heavy? - smallish sailboat? or camper?
And, What are the long term effects of ownership? Timing belts, timing chain? injectors?
I've been lurking for a while, and it seems that there are less problems with the liberty than with my current vehicle- a 03 Suzuki Aerio. Looking forward to your responses.
Thanks
Harlan and Lucy, Austin, Texas

Zonie · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:49 am

I've run B100 with no problem, but you've got to be careful because it cleans every bit of gunk out of your fuel system and will clog your filter fast. I'd have a new fuel filter and be ready to change it about half way through your first tank of B100. I gave up on the B100 simply because of the inaccessibility. I keep several 5 gallon containers in my garage and mix each tank with enough Bio to keep things clean and well lubricated.

Also be aware that if you have any warranty left, DC states that only B5 may be run in the CRD.

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

I ran B99 in mine all summer, no issues (can't get B100 in Oregon due to fuel taxes). Running B20 for the winter.

Agree with the poster above... if you buy one, gradually introduce bio into the fuel system (run a tank or two of B5 or B20 before trying B100).

4wd system is awesome, offers a full-time (capable of being used on dry pavement with no ill effects), part-time (locking power front and rear for use on slick surfaces), and full-time low range (locking power front and rear while swapping the tranny over into "granny gear" for creeping along over obstacles). Auto locking hubs so all shifting is done from the comfort of your seat, and the full-time mode is shift on the fly (meaning you can shift into at speed while driving).

Only weaknesses I'd identify with the Liberty CRD as a 4wd vehicle are its relatively low ground clearance in stock form (bigger tires and a lift help, but both hurt mpg), and the lack of standard skid plates (an optional accessory package, you can buy them after market and install yourself).

They do great towing. No issues with mine towing a raft trailer. On one trip last summer, the CRD was towing a 13' raft on a trailer, with coolers and gear for 5 days (6 days worth of beer), canoe on the roof, and 4 people in the cabin. Still managed to return 21 mpg running B99. Given the short wheelbase, trailer wiggle with a long trailer will be a problem, but that is true with any short wheelbase vehicle. Work around is a weight distributing hitch (some folks here have pulled 25" + travel trailers with weight distributing hitches).

Vehicles weaknesses are well documented on the forum here. Product support from Chrysler mechanics is spotty at best, with very few trained mechanics having any idea how to diagnose engine issues and fix them. If you are near a Chrysler dealer that sells Sprinters, or in a market where a lot of CRD's were sold, you may be in luck.

Couple of major known issues, the biggest being a very weak torque converter that can't really handle the diesel torque over the long term. Aftermarket replacement now available. Be advised, heavy towing will likely kill it quick. Filter head/air in fuel is the other one. Some have it bad, some don't, but nearly all have experienced the shudder or "gear hunting" associated with air in fuel at one point or another. Aftermarket fixes in the works (replacement filter heads and/or lift pump).

Some smaller issues common to all late-model diesels (EGR system that is prone to failure over time, CCV system that will eventually gum up the turbo.

All that said, I love mine. Nothing else on the market really compares to it. What other vehicle sold in the US can tow 5k pounds, return 28+ mpg on the highway, has an off-road worthy 4wd system, and can run bio-diesel?

gmctd · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:13 am

X2^ - and welcome to the forum, folks............

Uffe · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:43 am

What you need to read:

http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/sho ... hp?t=67074

That pretty much sums all the issues up.

I my KJ is an 03 which means I get less problems with the TC. My KJ is a european one, which means I get less issues with EGR and fuel filter head. All I've done is install an oil catch tank and did a few little mods not related to the issues.

I love that car. Towing horse trailers with weights up to 4,200lbs is no problem in hilly surroundings. Just set the cruise control and disable O/D, and you're set.

Don't know why people think the TC will fail really soon if you are towing. The tranny is from a dodge ram - why would it fail using it just a bit?

retmil46 · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:27 pm

My standard reply of late to those who ask about buying a used CRD -

If you're really determined to get one, and are planning to go the aftermarket route to fix the more noteable issues - TC and tranny, fuel filter and heater, lift pump, ball joints, decent tires, ORM/SEGR, engine air intake and filter, CCV, etc - and turn it into a reliable 4WD vehicle that you wouldn't hesitate to let your wife and kids take anywhere - budget at least $3K to put into it after it's yours for these aftermarket fixes.

Aftermarket TC is obviously the big ticket item - to have a reputable tranny shop put in a Suncoast TC, new design oil pump, and shift kit plus labor will run close to 2 grand.

litton · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:42 pm

There are a lot of us you have never had a bit of problem and are not running any aftermaket stuff at all. The need seems to be spotty but at least you know that fixes are abailable if the situation warrants. All I've done is the ORM which is quick and reversible.

Nothing else on the road compares and it is a hoot when someone suggests that you're putting in the wrong fuel.

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

Uffe wrote:

Don't know why people think the TC will fail really soon if you are towing. The tranny is from a dodge ram - why would it fail using it just a bit?

Dodge Ram's are also famous for torque converter failures in the US.

As was posted here one time or other by Mr. Mopar, the factory spec's for the tranny put the max torque the converter can handle right at 300 foot pounds--exactly what our 2.8 CRD's produce before any performance mods. An inline 4 diesel produces that torque in a much harsher fashion than a gas V8. Chrysler is very much aware of this problem, and issued the F37 recall to "fix" (ie, detune) the engine to avoid putting it's full torque to bear on the transmission. Even so, there continue to be failures.

Also consider, the quality of the components in the factory TC are pretty shoddy... see GMCTD's thread on installing an upgraded TC.

Reflex · **Joined:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm **Posts:** 567

litton wrote:

There are a lot of us you have never had a bit of problem and are not running any aftermaket stuff at all. The need seems to be spotty but at least you know that fixes are abailable if the situation warrants. All I've done is the ORM which is quick and reversible.

Nothing else on the road compares and it is a hoot when someone suggests that you're putting in the wrong fuel.

Exactly my experience and feeling about it(although I have not done an ORM as its illegal).

Uffe · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:52 pm

Threeweight wrote:

Dodge Ram's are also famous for torque converter failures in the US.

As was posted here one time or other by Mr. Mopar, the factory spec's for the tranny put the max torque the converter can handle right at 300 foot pounds--exactly what our 2.8 CRD's produce before any performance mods. An inline 4 diesel produces that torque in a much harsher fashion than a gas V8. Chrysler is very much aware of this problem, and issued the F37 recall to "fix" (ie, detune) the engine to avoid putting it's full torque to bear on the transmission. Even so, there continue to be failures.

Good to know. Thought the dodge rams were much harder pressed. So the CRD would have no trouble handling itself since it's much lighter. Well... not that I actually researched this ... more ignorance on my part. Which is heavier then??

Oh, I have an older 2.8 which puts out just 265 foot pounds of torque. Am I then safe you think?

gmctd · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:28 pm

Saddled with exorbitant fuel prices, you out-border guys tend to just drive the vehicle in high-economy mode (and we're fast gettin' to that point, here!) - most guys here within-border tend to get happy feet shortly after they feel the power of the turbo - your vehicles see ruffer terrain as the norm, but are not purposely unduly stressed - here they see ruffer strain on nicely paved roads, even moreso as the drivers seek ruffer terrain with purpose of undue stress.

In short, and to wit: your vehicle should see better service and longevity than those here, within-border, but that plastic torque convertor is still a liability, imo

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

I'm pretty sure the 545 transmission was only used in the CRD's sold in the US, foreign market models got a different auto tranny. I read that somewhere on this forum...

According to Edmunds, an 03 Dodge Ram 1500 4wd with the 4.7 liter V8 weighs in at 4836 pounds, curb weight. The Liberty CRD weighs in at 4296... our little Jeeps are pretty darn chunky for their size. The 4.7 V8 is rated for 300 foot pounds of torque as well, the bigger 5.7 Hemi at 375. The Hemi is well known for shredding factory torque converters (a stroke of good luck for us, as Suncoast starting making beefy replacement TC's to replace the stocker on Hemi trucks and cars, and adapted it to our needs.)

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:33 pm

The best part of owning a Jeep Liberty CRD...

You can find answers (or opinions) on everything here at L.O.S.T....

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

Quote:

If you're really determined to get one, and are planning to go the aftermarket route to fix the more noteable issues - TC and tranny, fuel filter and heater, lift pump, ball joints, decent tires, ORM/SEGR, engine air intake and filter, CCV, etc - and turn it into a reliable 4WD vehicle that you wouldn't hesitate to let your wife and kids take anywhere - budget at least $3K to put into it after it's yours for these aftermarket fixes.

Personally, other than the tires (which I paid for) I have made no other "upgrades". The car runs fine in all weather, is good in snow and has only seen the dealer for routine maint and/or recalls. In the long run some (all?) of the upgrades and "fixes" may be necessary but I am still in warranty and will wait til something breaks.

KJMedic · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:54 pm

DarbyWalters wrote:

The best part of owning a Jeep Liberty CRD...

You can find answers (or opinions) on everything here at L.O.S.T....

YEP that's what I think.

If you are the kind that doesn't mind fixing things and reading how to fix them the the CRD will be great. I love mine but I hate dealing with Jeep to have it fixed.

fresh8fly · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:56 pm

bone factory stock and no problems here after 62,000 miles. call me lucky i guess.

galatron · **Posted:** Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:39 am

well we took delivery of the CRD tonight, it's nice, leather, DIESEL, red, 4wd. I have to say teh drive home was really a good feeling, plenty of power, and was suprised at the amount of accelleration, vs my crappy suzuki aerio. I hope this truck stays around a while!

retmil46 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:12 am

vtdog wrote:

Quote:

If you're really determined to get one, and are planning to go the aftermarket route to fix the more noteable issues - TC and tranny, fuel filter and heater, lift pump, ball joints, decent tires, ORM/SEGR, engine air intake and filter, CCV, etc - and turn it into a reliable 4WD vehicle that you wouldn't hesitate to let your wife and kids take anywhere - budget at least $3K to put into it after it's yours for these aftermarket fixes.

Personally, other than the tires (which I paid for) I have made no other "upgrades". The car runs fine in all weather, is good in snow and has only seen the dealer for routine maint and/or recalls. In the long run some (all?) of the upgrades and "fixes" may be necessary but I am still in warranty and will wait til something breaks.

True. Not saying that he WILL have problems, but forewarned is forearmed - at least he'll know what he's in for if he does, and what the potential cost might be if he has to resort to aftermarket solutions.

techTim · **Posted:** Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:04 am

what they said^

this owners forum is a gold mine, can't say that loud or often enough. I am looking at a used cummins and have joined the "turbo diesel registry" an owners forum for the dodge, and it has NOTHING like the input and dedication found here.
welcome to the club.

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