Lift Pump questions

KJMedic · **Posted:** Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:15 pm

I have searched and read most of the Lift Pump stuff I could find on here. I still have questions.

1. What is the best Lift Pump to get. By best I mean which one has the best combo. of Price, ease of instlation, and function?

2. I have read somewhere about using a Lift Pump for a Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel. Which one of those are you all using?

Thanks

dgeist · **Posted:** Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:25 pm

KJMedic wrote:

I have searched and read most of the Lift Pump stuff I could find on here. I still have questions.

1. What is the best Lift Pump to get. By best I mean which one has the best combo. of Price, ease of instlation, and function?

2. I have read somewhere about using a Lift Pump for a Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel. Which one of those are you all using?

Thanks

Number 2 is easy: http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=26385

As for number one, I'm weighing the options myself and leaning towards the "in-tank" model if the filter head starts acting up again. Seems to me that ANY effective, reputable lift pump gives approx the same benefit. The differences are if you care if your fuel lines look stock, if you care if the dealer will be able to tell you have a modification, how think are your reserves of cash and spare time, and if you're more comfortable soldering than cutting your fuel lines. I'm still waiting on someone to report on some longer-term experiences with the ram sender (loco, where are you?) :wink:

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:39 pm

Personally I think the duramax LP is best option because of price($40), ease of installation, and reliability (0 problems for ~10k miles).

chrispitude · **Posted:** Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:50 pm

I'm leaning towards the in-tank route once someone creates a nice writeup with pictures and saves me the trouble of having to think about anything.

- Chris

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:07 pm

My lift pump and filters and extra plumbing is right there between the battery and the filter head assembly. I had it to a couple dealer a few times and none even question it to be a problem. One dealer in Washington thought the ORM was a neat trick when I told him the benefits of the ORM. I also told him if he needs to be convinced that I would race him against the used one he had in the lot "Title For Title". He wouldn't take me up on it because his mechanic drove both mine and the used CRD and he knew how it would go. :twisted:

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:23 pm

The first part is in the lift pump thread, Chris - the last part is in the bottom of a Coors bottle, or several...............

chrispitude · **Posted:** Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:15 pm

gmctd wrote:

The first part is in the lift pump thread, Chris - the last part is in the bottom of a Coors bottle, or several...............

Thanks gmctd! I've read over the thread a couple of times. Your photos and part numbers are invaluable! I definitely know what I'll need to order. However, the wiring part of the project for our 2006 CRD is a little less clear to me. Maybe I need to go read it over a few more times. I haven't actually crawled under our CRD's fuel tank to see what's there, so maybe once I do that I'll be able to follow the writeup a little better.

- Chris

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:45 pm

The '05 KJ has a 10pin rear harness connector - antiskid tech was optional

The '06\'07 KJ has a 14pin connector for the added antiskid components on the rear axle

I couldn't use the '07 14pin connector and wiring so I stripped the lift pump power and ground wires out of the '07 and installed them in our '05.

Well, actually what I did was to strip out and use the '07 fuel module connector with it's four wires - 2@ lift pump and 2@ fuel level sender

It should be much simpler with the '06, but you can also strip and add, like I did - if there's any problem, just post clear pics and the solution is at hand

Then, each time you can see the bottom of a succession of Coors bottles, you'll be a lot closer to not having to think about any troublesome thing :wink:

chrispitude · **Posted:** Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:52 pm

gmctd wrote:

It should be much simpler with the '06, but you can also strip and add, like I did - if there's any problem, just post clear pics and the solution is at hand

Well, ordering the parts is easy - I can certainly get started on that awhile.

I do have one question we can chat about in the meantime. In this post you were unable to pin down (hah) the 14-pin variant of the C307 connector due to ambiguity in the service manual. Did anyone ever get this sorted out? Once I get back home next week, I can get underneath our 2006 CRD and take some pictures if that would help sort things out. Maybe we can figure this out by wire colors, pin positions and whatnot.

I can't wait until winter's over, so the wife can take my M3 to work and leave the CRD home with me!

- Chris

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:02 pm

Sure - except for the added hassle of partially removing the left passenger seat twice, that would be a good source of input for final preparation - clear pics of the connectors and wiring configuration would fill in the missing data in the connector post

chrispitude · **Posted:** Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:21 pm

gmctd wrote:

Sure - except for the added hassle of partially removing the left passenger seat twice, that would be a good source of input for final preparation - clear pics of the connectors and wiring configuration would fill in the missing data in the connector post

Can't... muster... motivation...

In the 2006 KJ service manual (2006-KJ-SM.pdf), the C307 pinout is at the bottom of page 8W - 80 - 36 and the top of page 8W - 80 - 37 (document pages 2355 and 2356). The unibody and fuel tank sides of the connector are shown. What's interesting is that the unibody side has no special notations, but the fuel tank side does show model-specific pin information:

C307 - (FUEL TANK SIDE)
1-
2 N1 18DG/OR (GAS)
3 N4 20DB/YL (GAS)
4 B1 20DG/DB
5 B2 20DG/LB
6 K106 20VT/LB (GAS)
7 K107 20VT/WT (GAS)
8 K300 20BR (DIESEL)
9 K304 20BR/DB (DIESEL)
10 B3 20DG/YL
11 B4 20LG/GY
12 -
13 -
14 -

C307 - (UNIBODY SIDE)
1-
2 N1 16DB/OR
3 N4 20DB/YL
4 B1 20DG/DB
5 B2 20DG/LB
6 K106 20VT/LB
7 K107 20VT/WT
8 K310 20BR/DG (ESP)
9 K304 20BR/DB
10 B3 20DG/YL (ESP)
11 B4 20LG/GY (ESP)
12 -
13 -
14 -

Is this of any help at all?

- Chris

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:30 am

Understood on the motivation thing..............

IIRC, and yes, I have that info - and an understandment of computer logic, where it directs ya to remove the fan and waterpump, but doesn't actually tell ya to shut the engine off, first, and all the other associated stuff (computers do not even address common sense stuff) - I actually wound up tracing each wiring point from source to that C307 connector to get the connection - I couldn't make the Diesel wiring connect, for some reason, reason which I cannot remember at this juncture (sorry, I've slept some since then) - but, the Diesel version does not need the Vacuum Leak Detector circuit wiring in the KJ V6 harness - else is required for the EMS anti-skid stuff, tho - it may be easier to transfer the V6 fuel module connector and 4 wires to the CRD harness - that requires removing the fuel sender wires from the CRD connector, inserting the V6 pins in those locations, and adding the one extra fuel pump pin and wire - the cabin connector will have a wire at that location, but the CRD connector will be blanked off - the ground wire is separate in both schemes, not routed thru the connector.

It's all easier than it sounds, once you get in there and get the lay of the land - I'd say removing the trim and seat section and getting under the carpet is more difficult than R&R'ing the fuel tank and the modules - or, at least, it's a lot less fun

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:11 pm

gmctd (all),

Have you all found a 'best' way to extract the pins in the various connectors?

a) use a factory tool
b) use your wife's favorite needle nosed pliers (from the jewelry kit)
c) use the small screwdriver that came with the sewing machine..
d) ?

:lol:

Mark

chrispitude · **Posted:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:20 pm

I'd be interested in hearing more about connector disassembly/reassembly tips too. This has always been hit or miss for me, but then again the only tools I've ever used are my $5 Rat Shack mini-screwdrivers.

I spent some time wading around the connector pinouts in the 2006 KJ service manual PDF today, and managed to attach some descriptions to some of the pins:

C307 - (FUEL TANK SIDE)
1-
2 N1 18DG/OR (GAS) (FUEL PUMP RELAY OUTPUT)
3 N4 20DB/YL (GAS) (FUEL LEVEL SIGNAL)
4 B1 20DG/DB (RR WHEEL SENSOR)
5 B2 20DG/LB (RR WHEEL SENSOR 12V SUPPLY)
6 K106 20VT/LB (GAS) (NVLD SOL CONTROL)
7 K107 20VT/WT (GAS) (NVLD SWITCH SIGNAL)
8 K300 20BR (DIESEL) (SENSOR GROUND)
9 K304 20BR/DB (DIESEL) (FUEL LEVEL SENSOR SIGNAL)
10 B3 20DG/YL (LR WHEEL SENSOR)
11 B4 20LG/GY (LR WHEEL SENSOR 12V SUPPLY)
12 -
13 -
14 -

This information is not 100% reliable, but a pretty good guess based on wire colors and circuit numbers. gmctd indicates that the (patooie!) NVLD (natural vacuum leak detection) circuit is not used/needed on the CRD. It looks like the fuel level sensor wire must be moved, and I'm not sure why there is a sensor ground for the diesel but not for the gasser.

A true wiring diagram showing connectivity would have made the above much easier. The PDF has no information on what connects to what, only hit-or-miss labels interspersed throughout the connector pinouts. When a description wasn't available, I would look for similar wires with the same coloring but perhaps different gauges or circuit numbers.

- Chris

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:21 pm

An ice pick will also work - Note - the connector positions are numbered: note the position numbers for future posteriority.

To install the V6 4-wire fuel module connector and 4 wires into the CRD harness and rear connector, first remove the fuel harness from the V6 rear harness -

- remove the black cage with any gray blank-off plugs from the rear of the V6 C307 rear harness connector

- pull the rubbery vinyl strain-relief back out of the connector housing - it's also a weather-seal so it's fairly tight around the wires

- locate the wire\pin(s) of interest: you put a lot of rearward tension on the wires as you removed the rubber seal, so push it firmly back into the housing - this relieves tension on the retaining tab

- looking into the business end, using a small pliers on the tabs, pull the orange protective cover out of the connector - you will see the bare pins and the retaining tabs

- locate the suspect pin in the business end of the connector, depress the retaining tab away from and out of the slot in the pin, pull the wire\pin out from the rear - may be easy, may require firm tug, but pull, you must

- pull the lift pump wire out of the seal and cage

- you should have a lift pump power wire from the connector and the associated black ground wire with a large serrated ring-lug attaching terminal

- same procedure for the two V6 fuel guage sender wires

NEXT -

- remove the black cage\blank-off plugs from the CRD C307 rear harness connector - remove the appropriate blank-off plug from the hole for the added lift pump wire

- pull the seal\retainer back out of the housing

- pull the orange cover out of the front of the connector

- remove the two CRD fuel sender wires from the connector, noting the pin numbers, pull the wires out of the seal and cage

- insert the lift pump wire and the two fuel sender wires in the appropriate holes in the cage

- insert the lift pump wire into the appropriate hole in the seal - push it thru and into the appropriate hole in the connector housing - one firm push and the retaining tab will snap into the pin - if not, use a small screwdriver to push against the pin till you hear the click as the tab seats

- insert the two fuel sender wires into and thru the seal, same procedure in the connector

- in with the seal, on with the cage, in with the orange front protector cover, join the C307 connectors, and you're good to go

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:37 pm

The manual actually recommends a 'terminal pick' set made for pulling connectors - I ordered one
(I don't remember the web site )
my tiny screwdrivers didn't work well. - I didn't try an ice pick (I don't know that I still have an ice pick)

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:45 pm

1/16th screwdriver, or one of those from a spectacle repair kit, a sharp awl, etc - main thing is to push the pin fully forward in the connector to relieve tension on the tab - then it's a simple flick of the wrist and some fancy prestidigitations to success

Is yours completed, or was that a practice run?

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:50 pm

practice run

the only downside is that I don't get another time window to play for a couple of weeks - however I feel a lot more comfortable pulling things apart now.

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:00 pm

Sorry - just read your similar response in the other thread - all this cross-posting is difficult to keep up with - but it certainly doesn't take long to get an answer to any query, so if y'all have any problems with this, post pics and you won't be down long

BankNote4X4 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:53 pm

I want to power my external fuel pump from the fuel pump wire under the rear seat.

Just to be sure:
The Fuel pump wire I would tap is the Orange with Blue or the Green with Red, it will have one or the other?
Are they year specific?

I thought I saw something about a larger orange wire?

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