Help Me Diagnose a Problem

Donnie · **Posted:** Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:09 am

It's winter and I've been using full-time pretty often. I've used 4-Lo twice, to relieve myself off a snowbank I had to park in (on the street, narrow road, I pulled up onto the snow bank a little).

One time when I used for low, it make a wierd clicking noise and no movement. I shifted into 4lo in neutral, like your supposed to and gently pressed to gas to creep out of the snow, when it make the clicking sound. I would best describe it as when you put baseball cards in your bike spokes.

I put the Jeep back into neutral, shift back to fulltime, then back into 4lo and it works fine and I crawl out of the snow.

Now, whenever I go 30-40 mph I hear a similar clicking noise...buts it's more spread out like a horse galloping. Anyone have any idea what this is? Acceleration doesn't change the pace at all, but braking stops it. It has no negative effect on the ride at all, but I figure something is about to give. I've tried all 4wd systems and they all work fine.

Uffe · **Posted:** Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:45 am

That sounds strange to me. If you have problems selecting 4lo try putting it in at low speed.

My manual states that you must not be in neutral while parked while changing to 4lo. To avoid gear teeth churning you must shut off the engine and perform the shift when the car is standing still/parked.

When I change to 4lo I leave my transmission in Park unless I want to do it on the move. Yes I have tried to do it in Neutral too and that gave me gear churning, and I felt like a dope

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:39 am

Okay - lots of guessing

The thing that seems to take a symptoms would be something binding the 4wheel shift mechanism - if you're at the point of parking in snow - I'd look for ice/snow binding something somewhere, preventing full gear engagement/disengagement.

other things - if you get snow stuck on a wheel (or ice - snow melts as you're driving - freezes when stopped) it might be enough to through things out of balance.

The clicking stops on braking worries me a bit - that sounds like loose wheel lugs being centered by the brake - doesn't fit with the 4wd mechanism - but doesn't hurt to check torque.

also on the acceleration doesn't change pace - is it wheel speed? or engine speed?

Donnie · **Posted:** Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:20 pm

ATXKJ wrote:

Okay - lots of guessing

The thing that seems to take a symptoms would be something binding the 4wheel shift mechanism - if you're at the point of parking in snow - I'd look for ice/snow binding something somewhere, preventing full gear engagement/disengagement.

other things - if you get snow stuck on a wheel (or ice - snow melts as you're driving - freezes when stopped) it might be enough to through things out of balance.

The clicking stops on braking worries me a bit - that sounds like loose wheel lugs being centered by the brake - doesn't fit with the 4wd mechanism - but doesn't hurt to check torque.

also on the acceleration doesn't change pace - is it wheel speed? or engine speed?

It's wheel speed, I'm gonna get down and check under there, as far as I know it could be a block of ice coming in contact with something.

RespectMyLibertay · **Posted:** Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:55 pm

4x4 is very complicated, and who knows if it's even a 4x4 probem...I would say don't worry about until it becomes an actual problem...unless the noise is very loud and/or irritating.
Also, I would recommend not using 4-lo in the snow. It just causes more tire spinning and doesn't give you any advantages over full-time or part-time.
I also saw that Uffe said he changes into 4-lo in P (park) most the time. I would not recommend this at all and I'm not even sure how it's possible. The transmission needs to be in Neutral, end of story, for you to be able to mechanically lock the axles (what happens in 4-lo).

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:03 pm

My tcase makes the same noise if its not engaged into 4low. Its best to shift into 4low when youre rolling 2-3mph.

Donnie · **Posted:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:06 am

I've limited it down to not being the 4wd. What the major point is that it stops even if I barely touch the brakes, and continues when I let off. I'm going to pull off the front wheels and check the pads out tomorrow. They could have possibly got frozen and grimed up with the snow.

ReneDave · **Posted:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:54 am

Yeah, I'd definitely say not related to the first clicking noise. I've found the Libby likes occasionally to make that clicking noise if you switch into 4LO while you're on a slope or if you have a wheel lifted. I've never had that happen on either of NV231 TJs I've owned, so it may be particular to the Libby. It seems to be a common complaint, though.

You could have a loose spring on your brakes, but I'd be more worried about it being loose lug nuts. Did the problem seems to get worse if you were steering to one side or the other? Regardless, hope you found the problem and were able to fix it today!

Donnie · **Posted:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:05 pm

Well today it stalled 4 times at the top of my street, and twice at two other stops. It was about a 7 mile trip in total. I had to turn around in a driveway and with the wheels cranked it would struggle to move, it would have to go about 2500 rpms before it would start creeping. I called my dad and we dropped it off at the dealership :roll:

.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:47 pm

So is something keeping it from moving thus making it die or are they two different problems?

Sounds like something is up with the brakes if it stops when you touch the pedal. Maybe a bad caliper or a bolt missing from a caliper.

I had a bad clicking noise from my front right wheel when I turned left. I could actually feel it from my seat. I took the caliper and rotor off, checked the bearings, put it all back together and made sure everything was torqued. Ive not heard it again and that was over 2 months ago.

Donnie · **Posted:** Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:53 pm

Jeepjeepster wrote:

So is something keeping it from moving thus making it die or are they two different problems?

Sounds like something is up with the brakes if it stops when you touch the pedal. Maybe a bad caliper or a bolt missing from a caliper.

I had a bad clicking noise from my front right wheel when I turned left. I could actually feel it from my seat. I took the caliper and rotor off, checked the bearings, put it all back together and made sure everything was torqued. Ive not heard it again and that was over 2 months ago.

Seems to be two different problems. The idle is definitely screwed up, that's why I believe it's stalling. As far as the struggling around the turn, I have no idea it was really weird. It could be related to the stalling, and poor idle. The clicking sound is a whole different problem.

Uffe · **Posted:** Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:53 am

RespectMyLibertay wrote:

I also saw that Uffe said he changes into 4-lo in P (park) most the time. I would not recommend this at all and I'm not even sure how it's possible. The transmission needs to be in Neutral, end of story, for you to be able to mechanically lock the axles (what happens in 4-lo).

It is possible to shift to 4LO while in Park. I don't see why not really. The axle going to the T-case will be left standing still (locked by the Park bolts in the tranny) and since the 4wd system gear change is spring operated, it will not engage until I move the car ever so slightly. Remember that when you start the vehicle both axles turn as there are no free wheeling hubs on the KJ. As both axles move you do not stress the transfer case much while doing this.

I am not 100% sure if I have changed to 4LO with the engine shut off in the past, but I don't think so, maybe once or twice.

RespectMyLibertay · **Posted:** Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:56 pm

You shouldn't be able to get into 4-lo unless you put the auto tranny into N. That has been my experience, and that's what every manual says on how to shift into 4-lo (and 4-lo only). I've also forgotten to do that once when trying to shift into 4-lo, and it wouldn't allow me to fully shift into the 4-lo position. 4-hi (part-time and full-time if you have the Select-Trac like I do) can be shifted into at any time you are traveling below 55 MPH. Unless maybe you have a manual transmission, this should be true for you, too.

C co Crusader 2/127 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:36 am

Donnie wrote:

It's winter and I've been using full-time pretty often. I've used 4-Lo twice, to relieve myself off a snowbank I had to park in (on the street, narrow road, I pulled up onto the snow bank a little).

One time when I used for low, it make a wierd clicking noise and no movement. I shifted into 4lo in neutral, like your supposed to and gently pressed to gas to creep out of the snow, when it make the clicking sound. I would best describe it as when you put baseball cards in your bike spokes.

I put the Jeep back into neutral, shift back to fulltime, then back into 4lo and it works fine and I crawl out of the snow.

Now, whenever I go 30-40 mph I hear a similar clicking noise...buts it's more spread out like a horse galloping. Anyone have any idea what this is? Acceleration doesn't change the pace at all, but braking stops it. It has no negative effect on the ride at all, but I figure something is about to give. I've tried all 4wd systems and they all work fine.

oh boy do i hate to be the guy who says the "oh crap" awnser. About a week ago I had the same problem just under different circumstances. I was out doing a bit of winter wheeling and all of a sudden no 4 wheel drive and stuck on 2 rocks and 8" of snow. On the way home i get this loud as hell clicking noise about about 30 to 35. I knew it wasnt ny front diff because i thought it had blown(heard a loud bang as i fell off a rock; ws just the rock hitting gas tank skid). put it up on my grandpa's lift(closest garage with all the tools you could ever need) and turns out i just devastated my front driveshaft; the thing just gernaded and the sound i was hearing was the remainder of the internals clinking around. In your case it sould like it held on enough to get you out and then quit. that may not be it but its worth a try.

Uffe · **Posted:** Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:08 am

RespectMyLibertay wrote:

You shouldn't be able to get into 4-lo unless you put the auto tranny into N. That has been my experience, and that's what every manual says on how to shift into 4-lo (and 4-lo only). I've also forgotten to do that once when trying to shift into 4-lo, and it wouldn't allow me to fully shift into the 4-lo position. 4-hi (part-time and full-time if you have the Select-Trac like I do) can be shifted into at any time you are traveling below 55 MPH. Unless maybe you have a manual transmission, this should be true for you, too.

If I brake and put the tranny in neutral and attempt to shift into 4LO I get the gear teeth churning.

My manual says I should not change to 4LO while my transmission is in neutral and the vehicle is standing still. If this is what happens I should stop the engine, change to 4LO and start back up.

Just use Park instead of shutting down the beast. That way you can be sure there is no problem with gear teeth churning because you lock your driveshaft out of the transmission!

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:32 am

Uffe wrote:

If I brake and put the tranny in neutral and attempt to shift into 4LO I get the gear teeth churning.

My manual says I should not change to 4LO while my transmission is in neutral and the vehicle is standing still. If this is what happens I should stop the engine, change to 4LO and start back up.

Just use Park instead of shutting down the beast. That way you can be sure there is no problem with gear teeth churning because you lock your driveshaft out of the transmission!

No use in shutting the engine down. Tranny in N, rolling 2-3mph, shift to 4low, shift tranny back to desired gear and go.

RespectMyLibertay · **Posted:** Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:53 pm

Uffe wrote:

RespectMyLibertay wrote:

You shouldn't be able to get into 4-lo unless you put the auto tranny into N. That has been my experience, and that's what every manual says on how to shift into 4-lo (and 4-lo only). I've also forgotten to do that once when trying to shift into 4-lo, and it wouldn't allow me to fully shift into the 4-lo position. 4-hi (part-time and full-time if you have the Select-Trac like I do) can be shifted into at any time you are traveling below 55 MPH. Unless maybe you have a manual transmission, this should be true for you, too.

If I brake and put the tranny in neutral and attempt to shift into 4LO I get the gear teeth churning.

My manual says I should not change to 4LO while my transmission is in neutral and the vehicle is standing still. If this is what happens I should stop the engine, change to 4LO and start back up.

Just use Park instead of shutting down the beast. That way you can be sure there is no problem with gear teeth churning because you lock your driveshaft out of the transmission!

What manual are you reading? I know for a fact that everyone else here is shifting their KJ into 4-lo while the transmission is in Neutral. I just don't want people to make the mistake I did and try to put their KJ into 4-lo with the tranny in something other than N, which is what you say you're doing normally. Attempting to do this in my KJ results in a nice grinding sound and a dead-stop in the T-case shifter before you could it pull into the 4-lo position, making it impossible to shift into that position. This is why I don't understand how you could be shifting into 4-lo while in Park on the transmission. Do you have a manual transmission, and/or the Command-Trac t-case (no full-time)?

iambob · **Posted:** Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:25 pm

I had a similar issue in late December, I had mine in 4HI, and after I put back into 2WD , I heard the same thing, I figured it was binding up, I just slowly cycled thru 2HI to 4Lo, and the it fixed itself.

Help Me Diagnose a Problem

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