Diff. Diff Gears NEW QUESTION (go to page 2)

Hood297 · **Posted:** Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:48 pm

ok, I'm in the process of getting funds to get the gears. I just need the 4.10 ring+pinion for front and rear axles correct?

where do I find the front r&p?

tommudd · **Posted:** Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:50 pm

Its not hard to pull the front diff out, I can give you a few tips when you get ready if youre going to do it.

Tom

bugnout · **Posted:** Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:40 pm

Hood297 wrote:

ok, I'm in the process of getting funds to get the gears. I just need the 4.10 ring+pinion for front and rear axles correct?

where do I find the front r&p?

The only place to get them is from the Dana/Spicer. No one else makes them. Got mine at http://www.reiderracing.com/.

Hood297 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:22 pm

new question. Do i need a carrier for the rear end? Or just the Ring&pinion? I have an open diff. right now.

this is what i'm looking at buying.
Also is this and LSD? I wouldnt mind one of those.
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=28189

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:57 pm

Hood297 wrote:

new question. Do i need a carrier for the rear end? Or just the Ring&pinion? I have an open diff. right now.

this is what i'm looking at buying.
Also is this and LSD? I wouldnt mind one of those.
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=28189

No carrier break for the 8.25,that link is the OEM trashlock,better to save some money and get a ARB or TT for the rear.

Hood297 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:16 pm

ok, just hate to miss out on this good deal. but if I'm going to do it Im going to do it right.

jason thompson · **Posted:** Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:27 pm

Hood297 wrote:

:( ok, just hate to miss out on this good deal. but if I'm going to do it Im going to do it right.

Do it right once or you will end up like me
2 power trax broke and now spending more money to install a Detroit in the TJ

I say get all your parts
lockers gears ect. then move on the install

this is what I would/plan to do with the KJ
4.10 gears and Detroit Locker rear True Trac front
now I live ~2 miles from the shop that is doing the work so it makes things a little different
Reason for the Detroit/TT combo is simple
they work like they say they will

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:29 pm

jason thompson wrote:

Hood297 wrote:

:( ok, just hate to miss out on this good deal. but if I'm going to do it Im going to do it right.

Do it right once or you will end up like me
2 power trax broke and now spending more money to install a Detroit in the TJ

I say get all your parts
lockers gears ect. then move on the install

this is what I would/plan to do with the KJ
4.10 gears and Detroit Locker rear True Trac front
now I live ~2 miles from the shop that is doing the work so it makes things a little different
Reason for the Detroit/TT combo is simple
they work like they say they will

^^^^^^^X2 on what he said^^^^^^^^

Hood297 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:27 am

well this is my daily driver. I'd like a selectable option for the rear, like an ARB. I am correct in assuming the detroit is a fulltime?

jason thompson · **Posted:** Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:47 am

Hood297 wrote:

well this is my daily driver. I'd like a selectable option for the rear, like an ARB. I am correct in assuming the detroit is a fulltime?

yeah as full tame as they come
any thing more would be a spool
even for a DD it would not be that bad
sure an ARB would be 10X better

if you are going ARB rear why not just go ARB or some thing like that front at the same time?

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:49 am

Hood297 wrote:

well this is my daily driver. I'd like a selectable option for the rear, like an ARB. I am correct in assuming the detroit is a fulltime?

It works in the same principle as the power-trax "luch box" lockers(not really but kinda the same),but is a full carrier replacement and about a 100% stronger with more postive locking.

jason thompson · **Posted:** Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:57 am

tjkj2002 wrote:

Hood297 wrote:

well this is my daily driver. I'd like a selectable option for the rear, like an ARB. I am correct in assuming the detroit is a fulltime?

It works in the same principle as the power-trax "luch box" lockers(not really but kinda the same),but is a full carrier replacement and about a 100% stronger with more postive locking.

The key to me is the "more positive locking" part
the power trax is ok if you can deal with some thing that works some time when it is in a good mood and the planets are lined up right
I can not ,I want it locked not kinda locked
I have an ARB up front and it has never let me down but the rear is even more important than the front
so I want some thing even better

jason thompson · **Posted:** Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:10 pm

Just got home with the TJ
has a Detroit in the rear now

I only drove it for say 3 miles but I can only tell it is back there when I turn FULL lock and go kinda fast
I can feel the rear tires "scrub" that is about it
no pull or slack like the power trax and it turns VERY smooth as long as I dont get crazy with the gas
now I do have Super Swampers and they SUCK in the rain and it is raining but still all I had to do was let off the gas
and then back on ,just like an open diff. but I wanted to see what would happen

I would say YES to putting one in a DD esp. over a power trax
Just know that you will get less miles out of your tires

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:55 pm

I'm VERY new to the concept of putting lockers on my rig.....but from what I have seen, heard and read, it is essential for many of the trails I, at this point, have been frustrated with. But there is much I still need to learn. In particular, I have read that these can add a lot of noise when simply driving around town. Why would that be if you have the option of unlocking them? Also, why would they add any steering or performance weirdness if they were unlocked? I though by unlocking them, you would return to a "normal" diff? I would never use them even driving down a dirt road much less a paved one. The idea would be to engage them only on trails where they are needed - and for me the biggest problem has been where I have 2 wheels in the air simultaneously, or other situations in which a front and back wheel are spinning.
Comments?

bugnout · **Posted:** Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:05 pm

KeighJeigh wrote:

I'm VERY new to the concept of putting lockers on my rig.....but from what I have seen, heard and read, it is essential for many of the trails I, at this point, have been frustrated with. But there is much I still need to learn. In particular, I have read that these can add a lot of noise when simply driving around town. Why would that be if you have the option of unlocking them? Also, why would they add any steering or performance weirdness if they were unlocked? I though by unlocking them, you would return to a "normal" diff? I would never use them even driving down a dirt road much less a paved one. The idea would be to engage them only on trails where they are needed - and for me the biggest problem has been where I have 2 wheels in the air simultaneously, or other situations in which a front and back wheel are spinning.
Comments?

Full Time Locker: Non-selectable always providing equal power to both wheels - Detroit is an example, because tires are turning at same rate the inside tire has to skid or spin because its traveling a shorter distance than the outside. tends to wear out tires quicker. Hops or chirps the tires when turning, can be challenging if your not used to it.

Selectable Locker: Usually off - open differential until you engage the locker then equal power to both wheels. ARB primarily for the Liberty, all the advantages of open diffs, lock em when you need em.

Limited Slip: clutch or gear driven differential that is supposed to unlock when the wheels are turning at different speeds like in a corner. TrakLok is the stock unit, Powertrax is an aftermarket unit. Sometimes doesn't unlock in the corners and you get tire hop and chirping. Once you get a wheel off the ground, the limited slip disengages and the tire in the air spins. Unfortunately thats one of the reasons why they don't work as well as a locker off road.You can sometimes fool the limited slip by applying brake and getting it to lock up again even with the wheel off the ground.

best for the road -- Open Diffs
best for the trail -- fully selectable Lockers

You can choose full time lockers or LSD's and live with the on-road cornering issues. Many people do because these solutions are usually considerably cheaper than selectable lockers.

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:49 pm

Quote:

Selectable Locker: Usually off - open differential until you engage the locker then equal power to both wheels. ARB primarily for the Liberty, all the advantages of open diffs, lock em when you need em.

Thanks for the explanation Bugnout! Makes perfect sense. Beyond cost, is there any reason a non-full-time 4X4er would NOT have a selectable locker? That sounds like the best of both worlds.

bugnout · **Posted:** Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:07 pm

KeighJeigh wrote:

Quote:

Selectable Locker: Usually off - open differential until you engage the locker then equal power to both wheels. ARB primarily for the Liberty, all the advantages of open diffs, lock em when you need em.

Thanks for the explanation Bugnout! Makes perfect sense. Beyond cost, is there any reason a non-full-time 4X4er would NOT have a selectable locker? That sounds like the best of both worlds.

Its is the best of both worlds, but its not cheap. I just collected all the parts and am getting ready to have mine installed:
ARB RD93 and RD100 lockers: about $750 each
Compressor ARB CKMA12: about $250
New 4:10 gears front and back plus rebuild kits, not technically a must, but I've put larger tires on so this should return some MPG and power about $500
New Yukon rear Axles, not technically a must, but might as well do it right the first time, $250 for the pair
Installation $800
Total out the door: $3300 :shock:

Compared to powertrax or Detroit locker about $600 plus installation. Easy to understand why many choose this option.
I'm keeping my CRD for a long while so I can justify it to myself (if not to my wife).

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:50 pm

Quote:

Its is the best of both worlds, but its not cheap. I just collected all the parts and am getting ready to have mine installed:
ARB RD93 and RD100 lockers: about $750 each
Compressor ARB CKMA12: about $250
New 4:10 gears front and back plus rebuild kits, not technically a must, but I've put larger tires on so this should return some MPG and power about $500
New Yukon rear Axles, not technically a must, but might as well do it right the first time, $250 for the pair
Installation $800
Total out the door: $3300 Shocked
Compared to powertrax or Detroit locker about $600 plus installation. Easy to understand why many choose this option.
I'm keeping my CRD for a long while so I can justify it to myself (if not to my wife). Very Happy

Woa. Definitely some green paper there.
I am often a victim of the "while-I'm-at-it" and "might-as-well". What would you expect to pay for the lockers and installation alone? My wife is already a bit miffed that I go out by myself into places I shouldn't be....so I have to ease into my mods carefully.

But I too expect to keep both our CRDs for quite a while since we run them and our F350 on biodiesel - soon to be brewed by me.

jason thompson · **Posted:** Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:58 pm

KeighJeigh
I have an ARB front and a Detroit soft locker rear
I got the ARB so I could unlock it an steer
I got the Detroit so that I know it will work 100% of the time
That being said it is in my TJ which is not my DD but I also do not trailer it to rides
I drive it on the street
Now no question the TJ can turn WAY sharper than a KJ and I can not see any real issues with "tire scrub" on the TJ
Yes it does scrub and churp the rear tires if I make a U-turn full lock on the steering wheel but how often do you do that?
I also can say that it makes no more noise than the factory trac loc which was none

I have been told by several of the "old school guys" that ARB stands for
All Ready Broke mostly due to air leaks and this is one reason why I got the Detroit out back
I do not want to rely on the rear locker and the only locker and it is an air locker have the hose bust or compressor take a dump with me on a trail that requires a locker ,NO THANKS

I fully plan to get a Detroit for the rear of the KJ
heck I can get the whole shooting match locker and install for under $900 maybe even closer to $800 if I shop around
for the locker
now if I push the bar I can regear for another $250 + parts and I pull the front diff
but if I go in to the front diff the I will for sure get a Tru Trac installed

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:29 am

jason thompson wrote:

KeighJeigh
I have an ARB front and a Detroit soft locker rear
I got the ARB so I could unlock it an steer
I got the Detroit so that I know it will work 100% of the time
That being said it is in my TJ which is not my DD but I also do not trailer it to rides
I drive it on the street
Now no question the TJ can turn WAY sharper than a KJ and I can not see any real issues with "tire scrub" on the TJ
Yes it does scrub and churp the rear tires if I make a U-turn full lock on the steering wheel but how often do you do that?
I also can say that it makes no more noise than the factory trac loc which was none

I have been told by several of the "old school guys" that ARB stands for
All Ready Broke mostly due to air leaks and this is one reason why I got the Detroit out back
I do not want to rely on the rear locker and the only locker and it is an air locker have the hose bust or compressor take a dump with me on a trail that requires a locker ,NO THANKS

I fully plan to get a Detroit for the rear of the KJ
heck I can get the whole shooting match locker and install for under $900 maybe even closer to $800 if I shop around
for the locker
now if I push the bar I can regear for another $250 + parts and I pull the front diff
but if I go in to the front diff the I will for sure get a Tru Trac installed

Good input. Thank you.
In terms of tire chirping, what I was envisioning was something at least as bad as driving around a dry parking lot engaged part time 4WD: Yank, grind, pop, wobble. So, the full locker does add to this in any way? On some trails the "part time" 4WD plows so badly I have to put it into "full time" 4WD just to negotiate tight areas.....I would not want this to be exacerbated by the locker which is why I thought it might be nice to be able to turn it off if I needed to.

Does the air mechanism on the AB fail on people on a regular basis? Could there be a way of routing the air lines so they would not be damaged?

Also, I have heard that the DL has a severe gear lash that can be quite irritating when starting out - they mention something about it on their website I glanced at. Perhaps there are different designs some which do this and some that don't ??? I obviously need to do more technical research on this topic but prefer hearing street-wise advice and experiences before hand so I at least know what I am researching!

Thanks again,
Chris

Diff. Diff Gears NEW QUESTION (go to page 2)

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