Buying a CRD. A couple questions.

MTB_TDI · **Posted:** Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:33 pm

I will be buying a CRD in about a month. I already know that I will want to do the ORM. My VW has a "broken" egr too

. The next question is something I have read about but I want your opinion since you guys know more about it than I do.

I have my eye on two different CRDs. The first one is in the color my wife and I want but it has had the F37 mod done to it :cry:

. It is an 05. The second one is an 06 in a color we don't really like but can live with. The owner said that he talked to the dealer and they said that it didn't need the recall/TSB performed on it. There was another recall that didn't pertain to it as well. I think it was the ball joints. I am guessing that it was a late build date.

Now to the question. Which one should I get? They are close in price so that doesn't make to much of a difference.

Is the F37 tsb that big of a deal? I will probably put the suncoast TC in it at some point anyway. Will the F37ed jeep still be inferior to the 06?

Another question I can't seem to find the answer to is, What did DC do to the 06 to make it not need the TSB? Did they put in a better TC from the factory or did they continue to put the POS TC in it but with the flashed ECM and TCM?

Any help would be appreciated.

Also, I live near KermTDI from Freds TDICLUB.com and I will talk to him about a chip that will eliminate the EGR (but for offroad use ONLY though :wink:

) Maybe my CRD can be a test mule for him.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:51 pm

F37 - depends on your driving style - it killed the acceleration - I hate it.

But I hate it because my driving style fit the original, some folks didn't even notice the difference.

I don't think you have a choice - I think the 06's came detuned that's why they don't need the recall.

MTB_TDI · **Posted:** Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:17 pm

ATXKJ wrote:

I don't think you have a choice - I think the 06's came detuned that's why they don't need the recall.

If that is the case then I know which one to get! Keep posting, I would like more info if I can get it.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:32 pm

.... the holy grail of how to modify.

I vote lift pump first and then modify to taste! After I installed the lift pump, I need to drop it in 4X4 to keep the ESC light from coming on when I floor it pulling away from the stop light.

Steve :wink:

PS I am building my SEGR box when I am in Hotels on the road.

I tell my sweat heart the SEGR box is my fuel economy black box

I am telling her the truth

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:33 pm

Get the 05. The 06 has already had the de-tuning done to it, and it still has the same crap plastic torque converter, but now you don't have the benefit of a 70k powertrain warranty.

Go to the dealer (any) and make nice with a service guy. Explain that you are interested in buying one of these, and would like to get the "VIP" report about the car's history so you know what has been done to it. This is not an unusual thing to ask for, but some service guys are nervous about providing previous user info (Old owner names are on the report) to a customer. Also, DCX doesn't like the idea that you can get access to this, so as a corporate thing, they try to restrict access to the data.

It's not a big deal, I've only met one service guy that wouldn't give me the printouts.

You will need the vin for the prospective cars you are looking at. After you purchase... If you are the second owner (as listed from the VIP, there is a "previous owner" field) then talk to the selling dealer about transferring the warranty. If you are NOT the second owner, you will need to be a little more cagey about this. You won't be able to get access to the warranty unless the VIP report makes the dealers think you are the second owner, so you will need to call up Chrysler's customer service line, and ask to "update the owner information" about the car. Hopefully the person you get will be like the one I got, and will update just the owner information screens... And leave the warranty data intact. Its just a silly database, so nothing automatic happens. They have to manually erase the warranty fields, and my helper didn't.

After you have done that, go back to the dealer and pull another VIP report "For your records" as you are now the owner of the car. It should show the full and remaining warranty mileages on it, and your name as the owner. The "previous owner" field *should* be the same as it was before you bought the car, if everything worked like it did for me.

And don't waste your money on those stupid service contracts. You will be wanting a Suncoast rather than another DCX crap part anyway.

Now... About the ORM: Do that, yes. BUT! Go and sign up for the SEGR kit. Now! Do it! I bought one, and it is the best mod I've done to my KJ. And yes, I came from the VW TDI group too, I have a similar name on Fred's board. I had the Epsilonian on my TDI, it's not anywhere as easy on these. The dang EPA learned from our mods and have been making the EGR systems both more damaging, AND more difficult to turn off. But the SEGR kit WORKS. I built mine, but there is a guy willing to assemble the kit for you, then you only need to do the wiring into the harnesses. Kerm should be able to help you with that, I know I was pretty nervous about playing inside the ECU's 90+ wires... But as proof how modding is a disease: I bought my SEGR kit about 2 weeks before I had the KJ to mod.

Hi, my name is Jim, and I'm a car modaholic.

MTB_TDI · **Posted:** Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:00 am

I have checked both VINs on Jeep.com and neither one has any outstanding recalls. Both vehicles are from private parties and are both are the second owners. The 05 is a guy that is 6'5" and bought the thing on impulse and is now regreting it because he is too big for the rig.

I would never buy a warranty. I'll take one from the manufacturer but not pay for it. Thanks guys. I will order the ORM kit this weekend and not install it until I see if Kerma can find a way around it. If he can then I will the sell the kit. If he can't then I will chip it and put the kit in and not have a functioning egr.

gmctd · **Posted:** Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:05 am

Factory-installed problems with KJ CRD -

- lower ball joints - 1,000,000-mile Diesel engine, with replaceable cylinder sleeves like the big boys, is way too heavy for the DCJ-opted 4-cyl ball joints - solution: replace with the originally spec'ed MOOG Part # K3199 {Ball Joint}, V8-rated parts - diy 87bucks and yer good to go.......

- emissions - all 1500-series trucks and passenger vehicles are required to meet all emissions standards for lite-duty vehicles - 4-cyl engines "breathe" harder than 6's and 8's, resulting in much more 'blow-by' type vapors exiting the crankcase - these excessive oil vapors are plumbed back into the intake system via the turbocharger inlet, resulting in excessively oily intake tract, incl the charge-air cooler, resulting in big mess in the intake manifold with EGR-contributed soot - solution: aftermarket emissions-approved oil vapor-trap, with drain plumbed back into the oil pan - diy 135bucks and yer good to go..........

EGR valve - uses an intelligent(?) water-cooled EGR system to maintain charge-air cooled air density - needs good hard runs at hiway speeds to clear out the soot, or valve becomes 'sticky', sluggish, inoperative - premium-brand ULSD fuel and premium ashless motor oil reduces the soot-caking problem - an alternate acceptable solution is available: diy 90bucks and yer good to go..............

- exhaust restriction - 2.5" exhaust piping, good for the 2.8L TD engine, soot-trap (needs regular runs at hiway speeds to cremate the trapped soot and blow it out, no problem), but totally stifled with that huge 35 gallon barrel of a muffler, choked way down internally just inside the inlet for a standard 2.5L 4-cyl gasser (patooie!) engine - solution: aftermarket 2.5" clear thru muffler frees up the little CRD engine so it can take full advantage of the turbo - diy ~100bucks and yer good to go..............

- transmission - DCJ opted for a cheap hi-stall torque convertor with a plastic stator, good for the bottom line, bad for a hi-torque turbocharged Diesel engine, particularly bad for a 4-cyl turbocharged Diesel engine, with only 2 violent combustion thrusts on the crank per revolution - a 6-cyl has three per, an 8-cyl has four per, distributing the forces more evenly per arc - hi-stall results in mushy driving experience: the little mule responds like it is in a mud pit - solution: aftermarket low-stall torque convertor with aluminum stator, vastly improving power-transfer efficiency for improved driveability - diy 750bucks incl shift kit and yer good to go.............

- fuel supply system - some problems with excessively aerated fuel, caused by using pressure fittings in a vacuum system, and locating the fuel manager head higher than the fuel tank, higher even than the CP3 injection pump - air in a liquid piping system will always collect at the highest point in the system - this results in starting problems and misfiring\hesitation, and possibility of excessive heat damage to the fuel heater in the fuel manager head
- solution A - replace the plastic fuel fittings at the fuel tank with clamped rubber hose to eliminate the inherent leaks due to using those pressure-type fittings in vacuum service - diy ~ 10bucks and yer good to go........
- solution B - install the fuel lift pump module used in the Dodge Cummins trucks, designed for the same CP3 CRD system as in the Jeep - DCJ provided everything, already installed in the Jeep, but fergot to install the in-tank pump - diy 175bucks and yer good to go........

Add 1oz\gal ashless or syn 2-stroke motor oil to the ULSD fuel to protect the CRD Inj Pump and injectors, and yer good to go..........

1337
These relatively minor fixes will give you the CRD Jeep the engineers wanted you to have - you got the Jeep the bean-counters tricked-out for you - a little effort and elbow grease on your part, and the little mule won't continually respond like it was rode hard and put up wet.

And remember: the Jeep Liberty CRD KJ requires Diesel Fuel, not gas - it has a fuel tank, not a gas tank - you look at the fuel guage, not the gas guage - you stop at the fuel station, not the gas station - you fill up at the fuel pump, not the gas pump - you remove the the fuel cap, not the gas cap - green handle, not black handle - you pay for fuel, not gas - your KJ gets fuel mileage, not gas mileage - it gets fuel economy, not gas economy - it may need fuel additives, not gasoline additives - fuel is Cetane-rated, opposite of and not Octane-rated - you step on the accelerator pedal, not the gas pedal - the fuel filter needs changing, not the gas filter - you then may have a fuel leak, not a gas leak - the odor is of fuel, not gas - you may have gotten a tank of bad fuel, not bad gas - fuel, not gas - and last, but not least, that rumbling in yer tummy is gas, and not Diesel fuel (hopefully!) - that odor is of gas, and not f...never mind! - keep those things in mind, and you won't be back on here in a few days\weeks, with an upset stomach and wailing because you filled the fuel tank with gasoline instead of Diesel fuel - and tried blaming it on your wife!

Word up, eh..........

One final solution: free subscription to the LostKJs.com forum - diy, priceless, and you'll always be good to go.........

Try it, you'll like it
__________________

MTB_TDI · **Posted:** Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:10 pm

I've read that before. The 05 already has a straight through designed muffler on it. It was a french guy who owned it first and did that.

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:45 pm

Stability control was an available option on the '05 but I never saw one with it. It is standard on the '06. If satbility control is important to you then consider the '06.

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:46 am

Quote:

- solution B - install the fuel lift pump module used in the Dodge Cummins trucks, designed for the same CP3 CRD system as in the Jeep - DCJ provided everything, already installed in the Jeep, but fergot to install the in-tank pump - diy 175bucks and yer good to go........

Add 1oz\gal ashless or syn 2-stroke motor oil to the ULSD fuel to protect the CRD Inj Pump and injectors, and yer good to go..........

Add the oil if you have the lift pump or instead of a lift pump?

panda-52 · **Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:22 am

gmctd wrote:

Factory-installed problems with KJ CRD -

- transmission - DCJ opted for a cheap hi-stall torque convertor with a plastic stator, good for the bottom line, bad for a hi-torque turbocharged Diesel engine, particularly bad for a 4-cyl turbocharged Diesel engine, with only 2 violent combustion thrusts on the crank per revolution - a 6-cyl has three per, an 8-cyl has four per, distributing the forces more evenly per arc - hi-stall results in mushy driving experience: the little mule responds like it is in a mud pit - solution: aftermarket low-stall torque convertor with aluminum stator, vastly improving power-transfer efficiency for improved driveability - diy 750bucks incl shift kit and yer good to go.............

__________________

I'm curious, where can an aftermarket low-stall torque convertor for the CRD be had for around this price ($750)?

gmctd · **Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:14 am

Add the 2-stroke ashless oil only if you have a Bosch CP3 injection pump and use ULSD fuel

Suncoast has the only functional low stall aluminum stator torque convertor designed specifically for the Jeep Liberty KJ CRD engine - t\c less than 700bucks, and Transgo shift kit ~62bucks

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:01 pm

gmctd, do we need to do the front pump or other stuff with the Suncoast and shift kit?

sbohner · **Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:29 pm

GMCTD gave some great suggestions -- summarized much of the wisdom known for the CRD. I might add, with the F37, several have reported reduced mileage. While my CRD hasn't had this done, it was reflashed last year (without my conscent :shock:

), and I have had a reduction in performance and fuel mileage. Even, with these challenges though, I'm still getting ~20 MPG intown and 25 MPG on the highway at 75mph.

On the positive side, this is a great vehicle for its market space. It is hard to find a competitive vehicle with the blend of good mileage, low-RPM torque for off 4X4 road, 5600 lb. towing capacity, fuel availability/security (BIO/WVO in case rationing becomes a reality :roll:

), diesel engine longevity (low cost of ownership over 300K+ miles), and high-potential for modifications to increase performance/mileage.

Needless to say, I'm pleased with the vehicle for my needs, but disappointed in Chrysler for there lackluster support for the CRD. At the price I paid new, knowing what I know now, I probably would not have made the purchase. However, now at the vehice's used prices I would buy given that many of the challenges are being worked out as GMCTD pointed out.

Anyway, I hope that this is helpful.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:56 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

gmctd, do we need to do the front pump or other stuff with the Suncoast and shift kit?

Suncoast will sell you the shift kit along with the converter

The upgraded pump was the new design Jeep put in if yours was making noise at F37 time - if it wasn't making noise you got the converter and the flash.
new pump was ~$290 +tax at Jeep
(you can probably get them online cheaper now - a year ago they were fairly limited availability.

cxturboboost · **Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:04 pm

Does anyone have the part number for the new style pump?

Thanks

Pete

gmctd · **Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:11 pm

68009879AA would be the majik number, which should include 68009859AA front cover\seal - if you've had F31\F37 you will already have this little jewel in-house and awaiting the Suncoast revolution - check your service rcpt - further info here, with pics:

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=25447

cxturboboost · **Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:28 pm

Thanks for the number GMCTD!..

I have an 06 and I don't think the f37 was done because I believe it came from the factory detuned. I'm assuming that this means I will need the new pump because they didn't go in from the factory on the 06 right?

Pete

gmctd · **Posted:** Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:05 am

The '06 should have the revised pump and cover - I picked up a new old-style cover off eBay for show'n'tell - will post pics on arrival for DIY's - should be easy to modify the old-style pump by removing the unnecessary collar with a hacksaw, get a new cover\seal and yer good to go

cxturboboost · **Posted:** Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:46 am

GMCTD

I'm assuming at this point that the only way I will know if I have the new pump is by tearing the trans/trans case out! Okay, thanks for the info. My 06 was built late in 05, so I don't know where that would be in the run. I'm just hoping I don't have to buy the pump because of the $$$. Thanks.

Pete

Buying a CRD. A couple questions.

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