Ok, don't laugh...

Jeep Jim · **Posted:** Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:35 am

Ok, don't laugh at me, because I do have a little regret... First off I am an American Soldier stationed in Germany and last summer I had the opportunity to buy a Liberty 4x4 w/ 5SPD for darn near the same price as a Patriot 4x4 w/ 5SPD... So what did I buy? The Patriot...

So you can see my issues and possibly understand my pain. I fell for the great gas mileage! so I do get 25 mpg in town (and now its not the CRD). Now that I have had my Jeep over 6 months now I want to start upgrading and take her offroad. Yes they make lift kits... well one, Rocky Road Offroad makes a 2.25" kit and I have ordered one. I have plans on ordering some 235/65R17's to fit my current wheels. That should give me a total of 12" ground clearance. I have also already ordered a K&N CAI and have plans on buying an exhaust system (not sure which one yet). I'll buy a roof basket if and when I find a good deal, other than that I am waiting on a ARB to make or time to weld myself a bumper.

I can hear you all now. So why is this PATRIOT owner here... well I am LOST lol, now really, I feel lost I think I should have bought a Liberty. I mean I have alot of offroad ambition and bought the Patriot for its gas mileage. But with some help and time I really think my Patriot will be a pretty good trail vehicle.

Things I could use help with:

Choosing a decent All Terrain 235/65R17 tire that won't break me.
Finding trails and/or clubs in Germany that accept Americans.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:14 pm

Welcome.............

Quote:

Rocky Road Offroad makes a 2.25" kit and I have ordered one. I have plans on ordering some 235/65R17's to fit my current wheels. That should give me a total of 12" ground clearance.

Your going to be sadly suprised when you end up with less then 9"-10" on tha Patriot.They got like maybe 7" of clearence right now,and those tires are only 29" tall,about a 1/2" gain over the OEM ones as far as lift.

Happy wheeling

Jeep Jim · **Posted:** Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:27 pm

Not to argue...

But I did just go measure since you scared me... But I have 8.75" clearance now. So unless my math is not on par with the lift alone I should get 11". Now with the tires your right, I won't be able to fit 30" tires under the strong spring perch (which I would have to to get the 12" ground clearance I dreamed of). But I should still have 11.5" clearance with 29" tires or 11.75" of clearance with 29.5" which will still fit.

So I wasn't too far off. Now excuse my ignorance, but do you work for or own Rock Lizard? Weren't they working on a lift for the Patriot too? What happened?

Gopher · **Posted:** Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:31 pm

At least you didn't buy a nice beautiful Japanese car. If you want a good all terrain that won't break the bank, I've read that General Grabbers AT 2 (I think that's the name) is a pretty good tire. But I'm sure someone on here will correct me if I'm wrong. As for your off roading ambition....Are we talking logging trails or mudding? Have you thought about using the Patriot as a tow vehicle and picking up a really cheap TJ Wrangler? It won't need any luxury as long as it drives well; plus you'll be able to find millions of parts for it for years to come.

tonycrd · **Posted:** Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:34 pm

Jeep Jim wrote:

Finding trails and/or clubs in Germany that accept Americans.

That's funny, Jinstall is also an American living in Germany. At least you didn't by a Compass

Coopers S/T or more extreme STT come at a good price in Spain, so maybe in Germany too?

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:40 pm

Jeep Jim wrote:

Not to argue...

But I did just go measure since you scared me... But I have 8.75" clearance now. So unless my math is not on par with the lift alone I should get 11". Now with the tires your right, I won't be able to fit 30" tires under the strong spring perch (which I would have to to get the 12" ground clearance I dreamed of). But I should still have 11.5" clearance with 29" tires or 11.75" of clearance with 29.5" which will still fit.

So I wasn't too far off. Now excuse my ignorance, but do you work for or own Rock Lizard? Weren't they working on a lift for the Patriot too? What happened?

Ground clearance is measured from the lowest point under your vehicle to the ground.I have seen a Partiot offroad and 7" is all they got.They list 8" on the Jeep website but that is always way to much because they amp up the #'s for advertizing, they also list the KJ with like 8" and the KJ is more like 6" when measured correctly.

I work for RL,the it's on the back burner,finishing the KJ and getting the KK line out is first.

Jeep Jim · **Posted:** Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:22 pm

Like I said I am not going to argue... there are currently 5 in my community and they all seem to sit differently. Did the one you saw have the 16" wheels or the 17" wheels? I am just curious cause mine has the 17" wheel and tire package and the offroad package and its supposed to have 9" according to the Jeep Brochure. I measured it and its seemed to have between 8.5 and 8.75" just below rear seats as that seemed to be the lowest spot on the (uni)frame.

What are rock lizards plans for the Patriot? Have you guys lifted one yet? If so, how? above the strut like RRO or at the spring like other lifts? How high?

I actually PMed Jinstall so hopefully he'll PM me back so we can get in contact... As for the Coopers I priced them at 160 bucks yesterday so no I don't find that to be a good deal versus the $ 115 price of say Yokohama Geolandar AT+S.

Gopher, I'll check on thos Generals in a minute...thanks.

_UnLiMiTeD_ · **Posted:** Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:47 pm

geolanders are great tires, i have them on my kj.

Also tjkj, according to what you said in your last post, your saying the patriot has more ground clearance then a kj? Ive parked next to one and looking under them, that doesnt seem to be the case

SavageUrge · **Posted:** Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:57 pm

Don't waste your time or money on a whole exhaust system. This topic has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum. Just get yourself a Flowmaster 40/50 Series (or comparable) muffler and call it a day

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:17 pm

_UnLiMiTeD_ wrote:

geolanders are great tires, i have them on my kj.

Also tjkj, according to what you said in your last post, your saying the patriot has more ground clearance then a kj? Ive parked next to one and looking under them, that doesnt seem to be the case

The Patriot may have 1" more then a stock KJ due to the Patriot being 4 wheel independant suspension(the KJ's rear diff is the low point),but it's no where close to the advertized 8".

indianrefining · **Posted:** Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:30 pm

Jeep Jim wrote:

Finding trails and/or clubs in Germany that accept Americans.

Check out Grafenwoehr. I always it thought it was a fun place to "off-road"! :lol:

Jeep Jim · **Posted:** Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:33 pm

indianrefining, I am stationed in Graf... Where can I find trails that are open to the public? or you mean the training area?

jason thompson · **Posted:** Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:59 pm

Jim
you may want to "slow down" with the off roading in the Pat.
while it is said to have 4wd I don't think it has a T-case ,no 4wd low range so you will be "bouncing off the walls" when you need to go slow
There is a difference between 4wd and AWD even though it says 4X4 on the back that is not the tell all
it needs to have a button or a knob or a leaver to switch from high range to low range or it is simply AWD
now this is fine for "dirt 2 tracks" but that is about it I would not take one on a "trail ride"
in fact I am a trail guide and would deny access to some one with a Pat. on any of our local rides
not to be an arse but to keep them from destroying their ride
I have told a guy with a lifted 2wd 4 door JK no even when we had my wife and the KJ right there
he of course argued that his "JK with 33's could easily follow a liberty" the answer is still no
4wd low range required

Now I think that a Pat. wold look cool as hell lifted with some aggressive AT's but I dont think it would like to go on the trails
and for the sake of your life and others dont try to tow a TJ behind that thing

sleeve84028 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:08 pm

The Patroit has a 4-low gear. It's inside the transmission and I think it's perfectly capable of doing some trails. Probably not all trails, but there's nothing wrong with seeing what the vehicle can or can't do safely.

RL isn't taking orders right now so they can get caught up on back-log.

I can't help with a tire recommendation for your vehilce. Not sure what is or isn't out there that will apply to your tire size.

_UnLiMiTeD_ · **Posted:** Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:13 pm

the kj owners were always told that we shouldnt be offroading our kjs but that doesnt stop us, so why should why stop him? I say go for it, recommend the geolander A/T-S tires, i got them on mine, they are great for any road conditions and great for offroading for an A/T tire

tonycrd · **Posted:** Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:26 pm

Hmmm that's a new one...A 2wd JK?

Over here in Europe the Patriot has been well received and got some nice reviews. Maybe because it fits between the more popular Nissan Quasquai or whatever that thing is called and the Hyundai Tucson, Toyota RAV4 etc. As I remember correctly it does have a 4x4 system similar to our command trac (locks centre 'diff' at low speeds) called freedom trac I or II. At low speeds (10MPH) it stays locked so Jim should be able to go anywhere if he get's some ground clearance.

Ok, it does not have 4Lo...but it's not as heavy as my KJ either.

Guys, read this thread. You do not get flashbacks from when you first entered the forums? Everybody bashing on your KJ because the others had 'real' Jeeps?

Jim I am sorry, a JEEP is a JEEP ( when it's not a Compass

) and you are more then welcome here. And I for one would have loved it if my KJ had looked a little like the Patriot. I think it looks way better then the new KK.

And for general interest: last year the VW Touran was awarded the 'tow car of the year' award....I have towed loads of stuf, also cars on a trailer, behind a VW Golf 1 diesel. So the Pat should be able to tow a TJ. We do not need a Dodge Ram. It's just what you're used to I guess.

indianrefining · **Posted:** Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:28 pm

Jeep Jim wrote:

indianrefining, I am stationed in Graf... Where can I find trails that are open to the public? or you mean the training area?

No, I was talking the training area. I was there back in my wild and woolly days. There were only two things I was looking for off-post, and neither one was trails! :wink:

2006 KJ · **Posted:** Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:58 pm

this plan sounds pretty good. i've nver seen a lifted Patriot before.. and never one offroad in general. in fact i'm giong to go look up pictures right now! i'm curious.. haha.. you can wheel almost anything.. as long as your having a good time that's all that matters!

Jeep Jim · **Posted:** Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:11 pm

indianrefining, lol gotcha.

Tony, thanks for the PM trust me... I totally understand. It wasn't too long ago and people turned up their noses at KJ's. So I guess its like a right of passing and now its my or my MK's turn. Oh well. I'll be ok, my Jeep will be ok and I'll still have fun.

_UnLiMiTeD_, yeah I have heard alot of good things on the Geolandar AT-S. Tirerack has them back in stock now, but they only have them at one shipping point and its $222 for shipping. Those are the tires I really want, but I am also looking at the Fuzion XTI. It seems to be a very affordable tire and has good reviews on tirerack too.

For proof of its capablities on trails here is a link to a review by Expeditions West:
http://www.expeditionswest.com/equipmen ... /index.htm

Jason, also understand your idea of a leisure trail maybe a level 3 or above trail, mine is more realistic of owning a patriot being a level 1-2.5 which patriots can and do navigate easily. Remember I dont live in the Moab or other cool place like that. I have already taken it on two level 1 to level 1.5 trails with no problems before any mods so its capable now and will be more capable after its been upgraded.
:p
Oh and yes, I have already realized this is my gateway Jeep, yes like a gateway drug, it leads to bigger and better Jeeps. I'll probably sell it when I leave Germany in a couple of years and buy either a used KJ CRD, a new KK or a new JK when I get back to the States.

tonycrd · **Posted:** Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:27 pm

Jim, I just remember all to well the 'bad' years and I lost interest in forums al together.

Look at me, I'm the baby, gotta love me! ( remember that line from 'Dinosaurs?'

)

Okay, so it is 2x IFS (that should be IFS/IRS) I would buy this 100x before I would even think about a Landrover Freelander.

I don't get it. People get a hard on over a VW Touareg or a Porsche Cayenne, both cannot do this.

Ok, don't laugh...

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