Ok, don't laugh...

03kjsport · **Posted:** Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:53 pm

i cant belive how much attention this thread has gotten!

tommudd · **Posted:** Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:57 pm

well I cant wait to see how it all ends keep us posted and out on some old roads somewhere!

Albert · **Posted:** Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:53 pm

Jeep Jim......I looked at that Expeditions West link you put up and I was impressed at where the Patriot went in the review.

Go for it. Do the mods and show it off to everybody. I like what I saw in the link. I am with you in spirit (since I don't have a Patriot) and I want to see the pic's.

Uffe · **Posted:** Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:32 am

With an IFS you gain more ground clearance when you lift it compared to the solid axle.

Ground clearance depends on the angle of which the lower control arm reaches to the wheel. Yes the clearance at the control arm will not be improved more than what the bigger tyre gives you, but the underbody will be lifted more because of the angle of the control arm...

tonycrd · **Posted:** Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:52 am

Jeep Jim wrote:

I found some better shots... here

Look about half way down at a post by Gramps. He shows detailed shots of both the front and back.

From the looks of it How high do you think I can lift the 'Riot?

Sorry jim, I am not a member of that forum and so I cannot see the pics. Any way you can upload them over here?

As for how high you can lift the Patriot...that depends on how fat your wallet is.

Talking about the front, the more you lift it the sharper the downward angle of the LCA will become. And so also pulling the hub inward, making your wheelbase smaller. The angle the strut makes will also change so you are going to get alignment problems and that will influence handling in a bad way. You may even roll it...I would settle the RRO kit, it's high enough. It comes with all the stuff you need, even the correct ofset bolts to keep alignment straight.

If you want to lift it for example 4" think modified LCA's, modified struts or at least strut to hub connection, cv joints / axles, steering rods etc etc.

PS: You can correct wheelbase with some wheelspacers but I am not a big fan of those. Get some ofset rims. Like the moabs seen on the SEMA Patriot.

Back on the KJ, after reading TJKJ'r remark on how later dated KJ's where 'less' ofroad more onroad from the factory:

I was cleaning up the 'my pictures' map last week and came across this, which is an official JEEP pic.

Nothing special about it, it's a basic Sport. In a nice (US?) surrounding. But...anybody notice the space there is between the front tire and the fender flare? And that it says Cherokee on the sides? There are no markings on the tires, no name no size? It seems to be missing the plastic doorsil bottom protector?

I think this is the way JEEP designed the 4x4 Cherokee/ which later became Liberty in the US. But they lowered it before it hit the dealers. Then in '03 they lowered it even more. On the standard CRD the front CV axles are at an upward angle? Yeah well that's because we had to lower the front diff to be able to fit the CRD engine. That's partially BS. After fitting only 1,5" lift they are straight, the way they are supposed to be. The bolts on the upper stabilizer bar connectors are at a very strange angle on stock KJ's, almost as if the connection rods are to long. Duh...the rods are OK, the springs are to short.

Why does my Cherokee now drive like it has never driven before? Yep, because I lifted it back to design specs.

And oh,----> here's a little reminder. Stop bashing on Jim's Pat.

Jeep Jim · **Posted:** Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:21 pm

tonycrd, thank you for that information. I just learned more in that one post than I think I have from any of the other Jeep sites so far. I am at work right now, but when I get home I will copy, and relink those photos here so you can see them.

As for the suspension I have already ordered and will be using the RRO lift kit as well as 245/65R17 tires. Since I am stationed overseas I am limited on where I can get tires and decided I would go with the Tirerack. But refused to pay 222 bucks for shipping on the ones I really wanted from their Las Vegas *I think* location. So I ordered the Fuzion XTI as I read quite a few good comments on here and on other Jeep sites about these specific tires. This also allowed me to save money yet still upgrade to larger tires now with out losing an arm and a leg. The other reason I chose these tires is that according to fuzions own site they are slightly less wide compared to other 245 series tires so hopefully it will elleviate any rubbing near the frame at full lock. If necassary as a temperary fix if they do rub I will install thing wheel spacers to correct the offset, but only if necassary. (some report 245's rubbing at full lock and others report they will not.)

Later this year I hope to acquire some aftermarket 16" or 17" wheels with the proper offset. Right now its pretty hard to tell how the 'Riot will sit with that size tire and lift because the truck is so new and many owners are so unadventurous. In fact I only know of three others running 235/65's and two that are running 245 series tires (one 16" and one 17").

After that stuff is installed I'll see how I like how it rides on a daily basis and how that size tire looks on that much lift. If it looks too stuffy, I may just add an additional a 1/2"- 3/4" spring spacer to make it a total of approximately 3" of total suspension lift. I do not think it would be wise to go any higher than this plus the spring spacer may stiffen up the suspension so it may lean less (not that it leans now prior to the lift).

I'll post more a little later, its time to go home...

daspes · **Posted:** Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:00 pm

You've said a few times that your "stationed" overseas. I'm going to make the assumption of military. If your not disregard, but if you are swing buy the Exchange (did it once when in Naples), they can special order pretty much any mainstream tire you want (i.e. BFG, Goodyear, etc.). Free shipping, no tax, just have to wait a couple of weeks.

Jeep Jim · **Posted:** Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:14 am

the Exchnage isnt' exactly the cheapest place to buy stuff its just the only place to buy some stuff. Your right, they do not come out and say hey this is the shipping fee but trust me you pay shipping. A single Cooper would have costed me 152 plus mounting and balancing. The same tire is at least 40 bucks cheaper online. And for the tire I ordered it was actually 60 dollars cheaper per tire even after I paid shipping. And regardless of who I bought it from I still had to pay mounting and balancing because AAFES doesn't include that (here anyway).

Trust me I am always about saving a buck so I checked...

tonycrd · **Posted:** Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:54 am

Jim I do not know if you pay sales tax in Germany being a US citizen but maybe you can do a little cross reference with these guys:

http://www.reifendirekt.de/

Jeep Jim · **Posted:** Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:38 am

tonycrd, again you solidify the reason why I decided to get L.O.S.T. I would have never found that site and it looks as if it will be very useful in the future.

Now for the photos from that other site. The first one is of the front suspension and isn't that great, but you may get the jist of it.

This one is of the rear suspension:

This one is of a 'Riot running the RRO lift on 245/70R16's which are roughly the same diameter as the 245/65R17's.

There is actually more photos there on the other forum but these are the best views.

And I have now moved them to my server so you can all see them, so that issue should be fixed.

(edited to fix linked photos)

tonycrd · **Posted:** Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:32 am

Jim I'm also in Europe so that helps. And we are in the same timezone

So you don't have to wait all day for a reply since it's still night in the US.

Something went wrong with the pics, I don't see any.

But I did see the ones on the RRO site and it looks great to me!

( I suppose you know how pics loading works but just in case: Copy pic to your desktop, go to imageshack.us, upload the pic, copy the direct link from bottom of page, goto post, press Img, copy url into your post and press Img again. Or you can use HTML code: [img]your-url-goes-here[/img] )

Jeep Jim · **Posted:** Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:16 am

yeah I can't use imageshack here at work... its blocked. I'll get it fixed when I get home. Sorry about that it was worth a shot.

daspes · **Posted:** Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:27 am

The only one I've found to work on a Gov't computer is Cardomain.

Jeep Jim · **Posted:** Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:04 pm

daspes, thanks for the tip on cardomain, actually hadn't thought of that one, but its fixed now.

Other news, I just got my K&N Filter today so hopefully I get some time to install that this week.

tonycrd · **Posted:** Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:25 pm

Oops, you better should have asked before bying a K&N, hope you are not going on some very dusty trails. ( ah well, there won't be many around over there)

Those rear control arms look very good, much better than the OEM ones.

Guest · **Posted:** Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:21 pm

WOW. Thanks Troy for being a pessimist... MY Patriot Sport Trail-Rated is that which Troy does a pretty good job bashing, even though I've only been on one trail with Troy and went everywhere the KJ's did (except the boulders as I do not have rails). But, I have the mileage, battle damage, and pictures to PROVE that the Patriot can handle off-road. I didn't buy my Patriot to turn it into a rock crawling, testosterone infused KJ wanna-be. If I wanted a KJ or any other Jeep, I would have bought whatever else that I wanted. I was told I'd be accepted by LOST Rockies as the KJ dealt with the same nay-saying when it first came out, but it's no wonder there's only three or four people who actually wheel with LOST Rockies with this type of degrading attitude. All I ever seem to hear about are SFA's and how I 'shoulda got a KJ'.

To set the record straight, with several trails under my belt, the Patriot is just as capable as a stock KJ (Darryl can vouch), if not more so with the newer technology. Troy, Ted, Pete, Marty and others have spent thousands to build up their KJs to a completely different level of ability, something most people will never do. So, get out there and enjoy what you have, that's what warranties are for!

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:56 pm

Dawson wrote:

WOW. Thanks Troy for being a pessimist... MY Patriot Sport Trail-Rated is that which Troy does a pretty good job bashing, even though I've only been on one trail with Troy and went everywhere the KJ's did (except the boulders as I do not have rails). But, I have the mileage, battle damage, and pictures to PROVE that the Patriot can handle off-road. I didn't buy my Patriot to turn it into a rock crawling, testosterone infused KJ wanna-be. If I wanted a KJ or any other Jeep, I would have bought whatever else that I wanted. I was told I'd be accepted by LOST Rockies as the KJ dealt with the same nay-saying when it first came out, but it's no wonder there's only three or four people who actually wheel with LOST Rockies with this type of degrading attitude. All I ever seem to hear about are SFA's and how I 'shoulda got a KJ'.

To set the record straight, with several trails under my belt, the Patriot is just as capable as a stock KJ (Darryl can vouch), if not more so with the newer technology. Troy, Ted, Pete, Marty and others have spent thousands to build up their KJs to a completely different level of ability, something most people will never do. So, get out there and enjoy what you have, that's what warranties are for!

L.O.S.T. Rockies does not discrimnat agaist any vehicle coming to wheel with us,have had TJ's,XJ's,Toyota's,and even a Chevy 3/4ton extended cab,never have and never will.You stated you had no plans on paying membership dues and that's why you are not invited to any official events anymore(and your aditude on the trail).

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

All this talk about KJ's being testosterone infused. Oh my...
:roll:

tommudd · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:36 am

My KJ is infused!! :lol:

Guest · **Posted:** Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:32 am

Right. So, by stating that people who own Patriots should just keep them on the road and off the trails is not discriminating? That's fun. I'm not even going to get in to attitude here, trying to bash me personally won't get you anywhere. The reason I haven't (and don't intend at this time) to join LOST Rockies are three fold, 1) I was never invited to, apparently because of my attitude (?!?!); 2) because LOST Rockies is extremely disorganized by not holding trail runs when they say, and little involvement outside the CO Springs group; and 3) the discriminating, mine is better attitude displayed so eloquently not only in this thread, but on the trail as well. Would I like to join? Maybe. Am I going to join a group who thinks my Jeep isn't worthy of their trails; that doesn't hold true to their professed two runs per month (one hard, one light); that can't even say thanks to their guests who photograph their runs; no, I won't join your clique, and I'm not the only one!

Keep in mind, Troy, there was nothing personal here until you called into question my character.

I understand people get busy and may find it hard to fulfill their duties to the organization, but at that point, turning off potential new-blood because they don't have the right Jeep, or get frustrated over the groups inefficiencies surely isn't the way to make things better. Again, I can see why 90 percent of the LOST Rockies chapter doesn't participate anymore, and the reasons are many.

P.S. there's nothing wrong with a lifted, tricked out KJ, or any other ride for that matter. I think they look cool too. I'm just not choosing to go that route and am satisfied with my Patriot's stock performance.

Ok, don't laugh...

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