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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:10 am 
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In just about any board, the banner ads at the top are ads that have been paid for by people who want to promote their product and support the board.

These businesses and the lifetime members provide this board with the funds to exist. They also make great products for Libertys, Jeeps and off-roaders in general and donate product, funds, time and sweat to this site and several others. It doesn't mean you have to support them back, but please respect all that they do for off-roading in general.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:36 am 
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Reflex wrote:
Somehow I guess you missed the banner ad at the top. ;)


crap... you have a point.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:18 am 
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Burchie wrote:
Reflex wrote:
Somehow I guess you missed the banner ad at the top. ;)


crap... you have a point.

So do you, I'd honestly forgotten about the lifetime membership thing(its not common in most forums).

The only reason I have been upset lately is I feel like every thread about filters or oils becomes a massive Amsoil advertisement. Looking around the web, this seems to be a really common problem and there is virtually no independant data on it(even the bobistheoilguy forums are sponsored by Amsoil dealers). I am not claiming the product is crap, I have honestly no idea. I just find the way the stuff is being pushed to be offensive, and the fact that most forums have no soliciting rules that seem to be flouted by the Amsoil dealers to be annoying. If the product is great then let it be tested indepdantly and let the tests speak for themselves. Something tells me they won't though, I'm betting the stuff is no better than any other premium oil but three times the price. Reminds me a lot of how Bose does their marketing.

Anyways, thats why I spoke up, and I'll look into the cost of the lifetime membership, although I'm sure that won't stop anyone from criticizing me for daring to voice my opinions.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:53 am 
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Reflex wrote:
I am not claiming the product is crap, I have honestly no idea.


People are annoyed that you are continually calling it a MLM/scam and criticizing the product without citing anything to back it up. If you find it offensive that it's discussed often on threads where diff fluids come up, that's one thing, but that's like expecting K&N not to come up in a thread about air filters. To make allegations about the product's quality or company's ethics is another matter entirely.

It's not so much a MLM product as a distribution network where enthusiasts can be their own distributors. This is how Amsoil obtained its success with a superior product within the grassroots motorsports community. Other companies have been similarly successful to mixed degrees.

Just the facts, ma'am!

- Chris

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:22 pm 
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chrispitude wrote:
People are annoyed that <b>you are continually calling it a MLM/scam and criticizing the product without citing anything to back it up.</b> If you find it offensive that it's discussed often on threads where diff fluids come up, that's one thing, but that's like expecting K&N not to come up in a thread about air filters. To make allegations about the product's quality or company's ethics is another matter entirely.

It's not so much a MLM product as <b>a distribution network where enthusiasts can be their own distributors.</b> This is how Amsoil obtained its success with a superior product within the grassroots motorsports community. Other companies have been similarly successful to mixed degrees.

Just the facts, ma'am!

- Chris

Um, you get upset that I call it a MLM, then give the definition of a MLM in describing Amsoil in the next paragraph. Thats ridiculous! I call it a MLM because by definition, it IS a MLM!

As for citing anything, its difficult to do that when the company prohibits auto manufacturers from publishing test results, prohibits independant testing, and actively sponsors every forum on the topic, thus discouraging any sort of independant research. I already was 'warned' on this forum for speaking up about it!

Like I said before, I'm not criticizing the product, I'm criticizing the tactics. And I am hardly alone in thinking its a scam, do a search on the term 'scamsoil' and you'll find plenty of hits.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:50 pm 
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I use Amsoil a lot, and I find it works great.

I have a 1996 Dodge Ram (with about 140K miles) and Amsoil has kept it running great.

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 Post subject: Amsoil
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:35 pm 
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You need to ask yourself if its the oil or the cummins? I ran a cummins dealership. It wasn't uncommon to see engines with 500k on them that ran farmer's coop oil. Just my .02

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:45 pm 
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Reflex wrote:
Um, you get upset that I call it a MLM, then give the definition of a MLM in describing Amsoil in the next paragraph. Thats ridiculous! I call it a MLM because by definition, it IS a MLM!


I'm not upset. :)

Amsoil does have different distributor classifications just like ANY major distributor does - no different from someone like Ingram Micro, or even a dealer who has different rate schedules for different types of customers (commercial, personal, etc.). It's not a MLM in the traditional sense of having many tiers of resellers selling to resellers (the "pyramid" scheme), each getting a piece of the action.

- Chris

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Suncoast TC, Transgo shift kit, Inmotion, ORM, EHM, Magnaflow SS exhaust, Fumoto valve, EVIC added, Hensley TruControl brake controller, Pirelli Scorpion ATR LR-D in spring/summer/fall, FIA winter front and Blizzaks in winter


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:23 pm 
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chrispitude wrote:
Reflex wrote:
Um, you get upset that I call it a MLM, then give the definition of a MLM in describing Amsoil in the next paragraph. Thats ridiculous! I call it a MLM because by definition, it IS a MLM!


I'm not upset. :)

Amsoil does have different distributor classifications just like ANY major distributor does - no different from someone like Ingram Micro, or even a dealer who has different rate schedules for different types of customers (commercial, personal, etc.). It's not a MLM in the traditional sense of having many tiers of resellers selling to resellers (the "pyramid" scheme), each getting a piece of the action.

- Chris

Hah, Ingram Micro, thats a name I haven't heard in years...

The thing is though, IM is distributing other companies products, not their own, its a bit of a different type of comparison. I'll do some reading of how Amsoil distributes though, most of what I've read has said it is pyramid, but perhaps I am misinformed.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:26 am 
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Off topic

We understand that conversations tend to drift a bit after time, but let's please give respect to the author of this thread and attempt to remain on topic.

Please continue to enjoy your conversation.
Thank you, L.O.S.T. KJ Staff

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:52 pm 
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Thanks Burchie!

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OD '48 Willys CJ2a: fresh motor, new wiring harness, stainless exhaust, bestop, 34" TSLs and about 200 hours into the thing, possibly FOR SALE


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 Post subject: The other side of the coin......
PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:23 pm 
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MOSFET wrote:
I use Amsoil a lot, and I find it works great.

I have a 1996 Dodge Ram (with about 140K miles) and Amsoil has kept it running great.


I'ved never used Amsoil and find dino works great......I have a '95 Chevy Silverado with 130K miles, runs great and have only used dino 20w-50 and non-synthetics for all other lubes. Most of these miles were under load towing something. I also have an '83 Chevy FS Blazer with over 200,000 miles, also running 20W-50 dino oil. Lost the tranny (700R4 I think) at 93K but considering most trannies in that model only lasted 60k or so I didn't do so bad. I also have a 2000 Sub Outback withh 135000 miles still running great.

The KJ is the first vehicle to get synthetic motor oil.

regular maintenance is a good thing!

Gary


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:36 pm 
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So I got 4 quarts of mobile 1 75w-90 for $41 shipped to my door. I think the front diff calls for 80w-90 or something, can I use 75w-90 up front? Also, what size socket do I need to get the skid and drain plugs out?

Thanks

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OD '48 Willys CJ2a: fresh motor, new wiring harness, stainless exhaust, bestop, 34" TSLs and about 200 hours into the thing, possibly FOR SALE


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:50 pm 
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CRDburnouts wrote:
So I got 4 quarts of mobile 1 75w-90 for $41 shipped to my door. I think the front diff calls for 80w-90 or something, can I use 75w-90 up front? Also, what size socket do I need to get the skid and drain plugs out?

Thanks


75W-90 is fine. It just means it has better cold flow characteristics, it's still a 90 weight oil at op temp. The skid plate bolts are 15 or 16mm, and the front drain plug is an allen, 10mm maybe?

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 Post subject: So You Think AMSOIL is Expensive
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:50 pm 
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I could not believe how much the dealership charges for the major fluid change.
Differentials, tranny, engine, radiator and the 4WD gear box. No brake fluid exchange.
Ready?

You sure?

$800.00

Any opinions?

R

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 Post subject: Re: So You Think AMSOIL is Expensive
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:55 pm 
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fastRob wrote:
I could not believe how much the dealership charges for the major fluid change.
Differentials, tranny, engine, radiator and the 4WD gear box. No brake fluid exchange.
Ready?

You sure?

$800.00

Any opinions?

R


That is why I quit going to the dealership at the 24,000 mile change.
Steve

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 Post subject: Went Back Asked Again
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:06 pm 
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Location: Backwoods, ME
Went back.....
I asked the service manager if the prices on the board were real.
He said with no spark plugs, they are platinum now you know, he said it was much cheaper.
Then he went through the list, price by price, my eyes crossed, he said $4 hundred and something, I left.

These people have been playing games so long.....
We are soooo screwed......$140 for a key........
Expensive hobby I picked up.

R

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:07 pm 
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Location: Kellogg, IA
The CRD is one of the best vehicles to work on that I have had in a long time. I haven't used the dealer for anything but a recall and a bad vacuum line to the the turbo. Doing the lubes yourself on the CRD is relatively simple. I do use a local transmission shop for doing the 545 tranny, but all else is done by me.

I never realized the dealers were charging so much just for simple preventive maintenance. Now I know I will only use them for major repairs, and then, only if I can't get a reputable shop to do them.

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2006 Liberty CRD, Frankenlift II, Al's A Arms, Moog LBJ's, GDE tune, Etechno GX3123 Glow plugs, Fumoto drain valve, Elephant hose CCV mod.


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