So, where are these independant tests you speak of? And I believe the reason API results matter is because the API is obviously independant. Many of the so-called independant tests I found in my web search were done either by Amsoil dealers or by sites that tried to hide thier connections to Amsoil(gee, don't they realize that I can look up a domain owner?)...

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2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

I'm finally going to add something to this thread. a description of some ASTM procedures can be found here.
http://www.noria.com/learning_center/ca ... brication2
As may be noted most of these conditions will never ever be encountered in a normal engine.

A pretty good breakdown of Amsoil performance in these tests is here.
http://az-syntheticlubes.com/_wsn/page9.html
Some good numbers are shown but again the lab performing the test is not named.

After some very very extensive searching on the net I have found the closest thing to a non partial study here.
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stor ... -life.html
Interestingly the six test labs which they used all showed significantly different numbers on the same oil samples as well as choosing to use different test methods to quantify the same ASTM specs. Amsoil does demonstrate a slightly better TBN after 18k miles but does not quite offset it's initial cost before the end of its projected life span based on TBN depletion. Simply topping off either oil every few thousand miles appears to keep the TBN highly elevated.
Just some fuel for the fire here.

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Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

_________________
2015 Ram Ecodiesel/Big Horn/4x4/Quad Cab
2016 Arctic Fox 22G/Onboard 2500 LP Cummins Onan Generator/160 Watt Solar Panel

I took the road less traveled. Now I'm LOST.

_________________
2015 Ram Ecodiesel/Big Horn/4x4/Quad Cab
2016 Arctic Fox 22G/Onboard 2500 LP Cummins Onan Generator/160 Watt Solar Panel

I took the road less traveled. Now I'm LOST.

If those numbers can be believed it looks like quite clearly the winner is Mobil 1 Extended performance. Its around 90-95% of the perf of the Amsoil in those tests, but roughly half the price looking online. So you could change it twice as often and still come out even(in fact better since it would not be near its end of life like the Amsoil would be if you maximized it)....

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2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/oilshear.htm

Bob makes some interesting points.

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2015 Ram Ecodiesel/Big Horn/4x4/Quad Cab
2016 Arctic Fox 22G/Onboard 2500 LP Cummins Onan Generator/160 Watt Solar Panel

I took the road less traveled. Now I'm LOST.

The NOACK Volatility Test determines the evaporation loss of lubricants in high-temperature service. The more motor oils vaporize, the thicker and heavier they become, contributing to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy, increased oil consumption and excessive wear and emissions. A maximum of 15 percent evaporation loss is allowable to meet the API SL and ILSAC GF-3 specifications. As shown in the graph, AMSOIL 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil lost an extremely low 4.9 percent of its original weight during high-temperature service, maintaining its superior protective and performance qualities,while Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-30 Motor Oil lost 9.17 percent of its original weight.


The Four Ball Wear Test determines the wear protection properties of a lubricant by measuring the wear scars produced by four metal balls in sliding contact under the test parameters. The smaller the average wear scar, the better the wear protection provided by the lubricant. As shown in the graph, AMSOIL 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil completed the Four Ball Wear Test producing a smaller wear scar than the Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-30 Motor Oil.


The Flash/Fire Point Test determines the lowest temperatures at which application of a flame will cause lubricant vapors to ignite (flash point) and sustain burning for five seconds (fire point). Lubricants with higher flash and fire points exhibit more stable volatility characteristics and are safer to use and transport. As shown in the graph, AMSOIL 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil has higher flash and fire points than does Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-30 Motor Oil.


The Pour Point Test determines the lowest temperature at which a lubricant flows.The lower a lubricant’s pour point,the better protection it provides in low-temperature service.As shown in the graph, AMSOIL 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil has a lower pour point than Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-30 Motor Oil.


Total Base Number (TBN) is the measurement of a lubricant’s reserve alkalinity. The higher a motor oil’s TBN, the more effective it is in handling contaminants and reducing the corrosive effects of acids for an extended period of time. As shown in the graph, AMSOIL 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil has a higher TBN than Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5W-30 Motor Oil.

Mobil will not recommend or guarantee 25,000 mile/1-year drain intervals like AMSOIL 5W-30, 10W-30 or 10W-40 or 35,000 mile/1-year drain intervals like AMSOIL 0W-30 Severe Service Synthetic does and that is a fact. No-where on the Mobil bottle does it state 25,000 miles/1-year or 35,000 miles/1-year.

Mobil 1 has run the tag line for their advertising stating "nothing outperforms Mobil 1". Mobil makes a good oil, but I'm here to tell you that it does not outperform Amsoil Synthetic Oils. They can come out with all the catchy advertising buzz words to market their oils, but in the final analysis, buzz words don't add one thing to their product's performance. The only reason Amsoil has continued to grow and prosper competing with large corporations like Mobil is that AMSOIL products have consistently performed better.

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2015 Ram Ecodiesel/Big Horn/4x4/Quad Cab
2016 Arctic Fox 22G/Onboard 2500 LP Cummins Onan Generator/160 Watt Solar Panel

I took the road less traveled. Now I'm LOST.

Reflex, I know you will LOVE this:

AMSOIL Synthetic Oil is Helping the Environment and Promoting Less Pollution
EFFICIENCY, INNOVATION, & SOLUTIONS
Our society cannot function without lubricants. The dilemma is oil is both necessary for our life-style and potentially destructive to nature. Quite simply, we must select innovative, efficient products that will help solve our pollution problems.
The introduction of AMSOIL synthetic motor oil in 1972 set all new standards for motor oil quality. AMSOIL lubricants are 100% synthetic. They are specially designed to protect engine components, reduce emissions, last longer, reduce fuel consumption and prevent environmental pollution. From the beginning, AMSOIL synthetic motor oils have out-performed conventional petroleum motor oils on all counts.
AMSOIL synthetic motor oils resist chemical breakdown and sludging which keeps engines cleaner. They have been specifically designed not to oxidize, volatilize or shear back, resulting in a motor oil that lasts longer than conventional petroleum motor oils. While petroleum motor oil manufacturers recommend oil changes every 3,000 miles, AMSOIL synthetic motor oils protect engine components up to 35,000 miles or 1 year, dramatically extending oil change intervals.
AMSOIL HAS A PRESCRIPTION FOR PREVENTION:
According to the U.S. Department of Energy's Pollution Prevention Requirements, the first step in revitalizing a cleaner nation is pollutant source reduction.
AMSOIL accomplishes this by extending the interval between motor oil changes which can reduce the source of motor oil pollution more than eleven times.

Consider this: in 1993 an estimated 189.5 million motorized vehicles were on the road in the United States alone, and an estimated 700 million motorized vehicles were in operation throughout the world. If, by petroleum oil manufacturer's recommendations, these vehicles have their oil changed every 3,000 miles on an average five-quart system, almost 1 billion quarts of used oil will be generated each month. So are we drowning in oil? It is estimated at present that over 240 million gallons of oil are improperly discarded annually. Dumping 240 million gallons of oil is nearly the same as two Exxon Valdez spills each month.
How dangerous is used oil? Just one quart can pro-duce a two-acre oil slick. One gallon of oil can make one million gallons of water too foul to drink and 35 ppm of oil will kill fish. Improperly disposed used oil is dangerous.
Improperly dumped used oil seeps through landfills into ground water, disrupts bacterial digestion in sewer treatment plants and washes into lakes and harbors. At present, used motor oil is the largest single source of oil pollution in our nation's waterways. Certainly the first thing we can do is not create so much used oil to begin with and the United States Department of Energy seems to agree.
Where does all the used oil go?

40% is dumped on the ground or down the sewer.
21% is thrown out with the trash, ending up in landfills.
6% is burned.
19% is reused for miscellaneous purposes.
14% is recycled.

PREVENT BILLIONS OF QUARTS FROM BEING DUMPED
Most automobile manufacturers recommend oil drain intervals of 3,000 to 6,000 miles for petroleum motor oils. AMSOIL recommends up to a 35,000-mile oil change which is 5 to 11 times fewer oil changes. Just think about the savings on the environment if, for example, the 135 million cars (excluding trucks, buses and taxis) in the United States were equipped with AMSOIL motor oil. Assuming an average service-life of 100,000 miles and an oil capacity of 5 quarts each, 11.4 billion to 22.3 billion quarts of used oil will be generated during a regular service lifetime (with regular oil changes every 3,000 to 6,000 miles). If you put 22.3 billion quarts of used oil into 55-gallon barrels and loaded them onto semi-trucks, a line of trucks would stretch end-to-end from Los Angeles to Washington D.C. and back to Los Angeles.
AMSOIL SOLUTIONS
For nearly three decades, AMSOIL INC. has been recognized as the leader in synthetic lubrication technology. AMSOIL was the first to introduce a synthetic motor oil qualified by the American Petroleum Institute, the first to recommend 25,000-mile/1-year drain intervals, the first to recommend 35,000-mile/1-year drain intervals, and the first to implement a system for dramatically increasing drain intervals with oil analysis. Decades of research, laboratory analysis and millions of engine miles have kept AMSOIL the leader in automotive applications for synthetic lubrication. Although the results have paid off in maximizing efficiency and minimizing waste, they are not conclusive. AMSOIL is the leader in synthetics and with continued research, analysis and product development will remain the industry's leader.
LOOKING TOWARD THE FUTURE
In 1983 AMSOIL created the TRI-GARD system. The life of a lubricant is dependent on the quality of oil and the filtration system's ability to keep it clean. The AMSOIL TRI-GARD system incorporates AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil, the AMSOIL Foam Air Filter, the AMSOIL By-Pass Filter and oil analysis to dramatically extend the oil change interval. Less oil changed means less oil disposal and less oil pollution. With regards to the environment, the AMSOIL TRI-GARD System is the most technologically sound, environmentally friendly motor oil program to reduce oil disposal.
OTHER ECOLOGICAL/ECONOMICAL BENEFITS OF AMSOIL
Reduces Emissions: Increases Engine Life
Each year nearly 600 million gallons of motor oil are burned and exit through the tailpipes of cars and trucks, creating emissions pollution. Petroleum oils volatilize (burn off) more readily than AMSOIL synthetic oils and create more emissions pollution.
The graph at the right (will be available soon) shows the results of five oils that underwent the NOACK Volatility Test. Of all the oils tested, AMSOIL shows dramatically less weight loss . . . less than half the weight loss of its closest counterpart. Some oils tested lost 20 percent of their weight. That means almost one fifth of the oil boils away and is released into the environment. For most cars, that's approximately a quart of oil being burned and expelled into nature.
The thicker oil left behind after volatization contributes to damaging deposits, sticky piston rings and oil blow-by, all of which cause reduced engine life, reduced fuel economy and increased air pollution.
"Each month, petroleum products emit the equivalent of an 'oil spill' into the Los Angeles Basin's air as massive as the 10-million-gallon spill from the Exxon Valdez, according to the South Coast Air Quality Management District." (Truckers' News Magazine)
GREATER FUEL ECONOMY
The advanced lubricity (slipperiness) of AMSOIL synthetic lubricants has been proven to increase fuel economy by 2-5%. AMSOIL reduces friction and allows your engine to use its heat-energy more efficiently.
How Much Is a 5% Savings in Fuel? The average person drives slightly more than 10,000 miles each year. A 5% savings in fuel gives you more than $25 in savings a year (assuming you get 30 mpg, at $1.60 per gallon). And if you get 20 mpg a 5% savings in fuel gives you $39 in savings a year!
Worldwide Vehicle Population: 1970: 245 million 1985: 520 million 2000: (est.): 800 million If, in the year 2000, these vehicles change oil 3 times each year and have 5 quart systems, 1 billion quarts of waste oil will be generated each month.

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2015 Ram Ecodiesel/Big Horn/4x4/Quad Cab
2016 Arctic Fox 22G/Onboard 2500 LP Cummins Onan Generator/160 Watt Solar Panel

I took the road less traveled. Now I'm LOST.

Your second post was ripped directly from an Amsoil promotional webpage. Good for them, but I don't believe in running an oil for 25k miles, I like my engines to last and as stated by Uffe, even if the oil itself is in good shape, its main job is to suspend contaminents, and at a certain point it will not do that job very effectively.

On the other post, if I am changing my oil twice as often, whcih I could easily do for the price on several of the competing oils that were in the same range, well, I'd be getting those oils at maximum benefit for a much greater percent of the time comparatively, meaning that on average I'd be running higher quality oil at any given point in the cycle.

And finally, Bob's site is part of the problem, namely, Amsoil is one of his sponsors.

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2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

Reflex, you crack me up! Knowing you, I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re already running Amsoil in your CRD. Where do you get the idea that Bob's site is part of the problem and Amsoil is one of his sponsors? You have no evidence that Amsoil is one of Bob’s sponsors. It’s fascinating, no matter how much data I pull up, it’s either not good enough, or it’s AMSOIL sponsored. Also, your statement about long intervals is a classic. An oil analysis tells the truth, regardless the oil, environmental conditions, intervals, and the driving conditions. As I self-reflect, I can honestly say that the old farmer who changed his oil every 1,000 miles or 1 month has proven a good point. I’m like JJ, I use Amsoil because I know the product is excellent, proven, and widely used in many applications. I will continue to use an oil analysis to determine the type of oil I use and the interval in which it gets changed. Oh, and if you want an AMSOIL sticker to put on the back of your CRD, just let me know, I will send you one for FREE, just because you’re my buddy!

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2015 Ram Ecodiesel/Big Horn/4x4/Quad Cab
2016 Arctic Fox 22G/Onboard 2500 LP Cummins Onan Generator/160 Watt Solar Panel

I took the road less traveled. Now I'm LOST.

Well if Amsoil is good at not producing wear particles, they can run their oil longer. But then that makes it even with all other oils. If you want better protection, run Amsoil and change it like a normal oil. You want less particles in the oil at all times, and you want less particles forming too. If you do that, you pay more for better stuff. That's a choice you can make.

However there are so many things which goes wrong in engines, by the time we can see the effects of the difference between running amsoil and standard synthetic we'd all be grandfathers and everything else in the engine will have failed a thousand times. In the meantime what we paid extra for Amsoil could have helped us pay for the other stuff that broke, so we end up with a net loss of choosing amsoil IMO.

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L.O.S.T forever!
Silver 2002 Skoda Fabia TDI, 235,000km
Former car: Jeep KJ 2003 CRD

DIESEL - saving millions of liters of petrol every day!

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... =44&page=1
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... =12&page=1

You know I love you but seriously, he lists several Amsoil dealers right in his sponsor lists....

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2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

So, not being a gearhead (but understanding at least something about the chemisty as I am a chemist) it appears that yes, Amsoil is marginally "better" than other syn lubes, but clearly not enough to justify its added cost.

It seems that the Amsoil marketing plan is based on MLM and the following quote from HL Menken "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American People". Remember, alot of cans of Marvel Mystery Oil were sold too

Like it or not, This is why Amsoil does not pursue API cert on all their oils: (loosely quoted from their site)

“Two primary reasons:
1.There are strict phosphorous additive level restrictions placed on API certified oils that would minimize the full performance and extended drain capability of Amsoil motor oils.

2.The API does not allow read-across approvals for synthetic motor oils, and therefore certification costs become unrealistic.

Phosphorous restrictions-

Full API licensing, or certification, would impose strict phosphorous limitations on Amsoil motor oils. This limitation is the main reason most Amsoil motor oils are not API licensed. Amsoil INC. currently disagrees with this limitation and feels strongly that the reduced wear and longer oil and additive life achieved through higher levels of properly formulated and balanced phosphorous content is more important than the arbitrary API phosphorous limit that does not give any consideration to the NOACK volatility level of an oil. When chemistry is developed that will provide superior engine wear protection with reduced phosphorous levels, or NOACK volatility considerations are put in place, then the phosphorous level will become a non-issue.

Read across approvals-

In the lubricants industry petroleum motor oils that are API licensed have “read-across approval”. What this means is you can seek API licensing approval on a specific product, with a particular additive package, and then use read-across approval to market this same formulation in any number of oil viscosities. For example, if you license a 5w30 with additive package ABC, then you can market your 10w30 or 10w40 engine oils with the API certification donut provided these other viscosities use additive package ABC. The API does not allow read-across approval on synthetic engine oils, which means that every single oil viscosity must be individually/separately certified to carry the API certified donut mark of the API.
API licensing, via read-across approval, works for petroleum products, but the licensing process has a stranglehold on synthetic technology. This puts Amsoil Inc. in a tough situation. If we followed conventional practice, not only would we find it necessary to buy “off the shelf” oil formula components from specific vendors – and be at the mercy of their pricing – we would not be able to make any major improvements to the lubricant formulas for 2-3 years, without new testing and, not surprisingly, even higher associated costs.

The cost for running a test program for a single passenger car motor oil formulation is from $125,000 to $300,000 depending on if the formula passes the tests the first time through, or if it requires multiple test runs or formula modifications to achieve a passing average. Note: That amount goes to $275,000 - $500,000 for a Heavy Duty Diesel licensing program on a specific formula.

Once that testing is complete and the formula has passed all of the minimum requirements, it can be licensed for $825 per year for non-members and $625 per year for members. There is also a small royalty fee per gallon sold for all gallons over a million. The length of time between new specifications is now approximately 2-3 years, Which does not allow a great deal of time to recover testing costs.

To solve this problem, the API should establish base stock interchange guidelines for synthetic base stocks Justas they have for other base stocks as well as develop interchange guidelines for other components so that mfgs and marketers of synthetic engine oils have an even playing field as it relates to API cert costs.

Summary –

API licensing is a voluntary process. In a perfect world it should ensure that auto mfgs and consumer meet a set of minimum standards. What this means is that if a consumer wants a product that just meets minimum specs, then they should purchase API licensed products and get exactly what they paid for, minimum performance. In the future, should these standards be raised to a level consistent w/ Amsoils standards for oil performance, Amsoil will consider licensing all oils.

API licensing and Warranties-
Fortunately, the law does not allow mfgs to void your warranty simply because of the brand of oil you use, the specs it meets or the miles you drive between changes. To be specific, they cannot deny fixing your broken radio, faulty valve or cracked piston because you used a non-licensed motor oil, or because you went more than 3000 miles on an oil change. Denial of warranty coverage must be specifically due to an oil related failure. All courts of law will rule against any mfg or dealer that tries these warranty practices.

If any auto dealer insinuates that your warranty will be void if you use Amsoil products or utilize extended drain intervals, let Amsoil know the name of the dealership, the address, the owners name and the name of the employee that made the statement and mail to:

Amsoil inc.
Attention: Tech Service Dept.
Amsoil Bldg.
Superior, WI. 54880

Or Email to tech@amsoil.com

They will almost never put it into writing but if they do, please sent a copy of that too. Either way, Amsoil will send them a letter informing them they must cease the intimidation of their customers.

So how do you know if Amsoil products meet or exceed the minimum API specs?

Amsoil works closely w/ the major additive companies to design the top performing car and HD diesel oil additives. These additives have already passes all of the API licensing requirements in a petroleum or syn based formulation. Amsoils experienced R&D chemists work w/ the additive co. to maximize the amount of additive used and to boost the additive package on selected performance areas to achieve an optimum performing additive package for reduced wear and extended drain inetervals. This is unlike the vast majority of co’s who, because additives are expensive, use the minimum amount of the least expensive additives required to meet the minimum API requirements.

Amsoil utilizes a blend of carefully selected syn base stocks w/ known performance characteristics as a replacement for the petroleum base stocks to optimize performance in areas of lubricity, volatility, viscosity index, oxidation and nitration resistance, pour points, flash points, deposit control, soot handling, emissions, etc. They also utilize a highly shear stable Vi improver to ensure viscosity retention throughout extended drain intervals. This replaces the inexpensive and less shear stable Vi improvers used in API licensed petroleum formulas. Amsoil does lab tests before running filed tests to verify the superiority of the synthetic formula in actual use. They continue to monitor the performance of the oil through close scrutiny of tens of thousands of oil analysis tests per year across a wide variety of vehicles all around North America and the world. Amsoil has been collecting used oil samples from passenger cars since 1982. No other oil company has as vast a database documenting the performance of syn lubes over extended drain intervals.”


On subject of cost. Amsoil products Can be had at prices similar to other "boutique" oils. If you are paying retail, you are not working w/ a dealer that offers the best pricing.

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99 TJ
71 C101
04 KJ
03 SFA KJ Sport
LOST JEEPS So-Cal

I gotta go with Reflex and Uffe on this one. So what if Amsoil is marginally better than Mobil 1. The ONLY Test that really matters to us is the TBN. All the other tests cited are filler for web pages. There is not a possible scenario in which most of the test conditions could ever be encountered in an actual engine.

lets start with the first the NOACK test. Your oil will never ever see 150C for one hour in an IC engine, even in a race car, so that test tells us nothing useful.

Four ball wear test: there is no part of the engine where a ball or any ball shaped part is spinning against four others at 1200 rpm, or any rpm for that matter. Test useless.

Flash point test: If any part of your engine ever encountered the temperature of even the worst performing oil in this test, 435F, you are totally screwed (think complete engine replacement and all rubber or plastic parts melting). Not even a Jet turbine's oil will ever see this temp. Again useless.

Pour point: When was the last time that you tried to start a vehicle at -54F, the rating of Amsoil's closest competitor? These temps will never be encountered in the lower 48 and even if they were no diesel will start at that temp no matter how many times you cycle the glow plugs. Test useless.

High temp/high shear test: This test has the same problem with heat that will never be encountered in a real engine. All synthetics have a tremendously higher shear resistance than Petro oil but the differences between synthetics is in reality very small. Compare 3050psi-3230psi VS 500psi for the worst Petro oil. The pressure used here is also another impossible scenario to sustain in an IC engine.

While most of the other tests results touted by Amsoil are equally as as interesting from a purely academic standpoint, they have absolutely no real world application. I think that all here will admit that Amsoil is the higher performing oil, but we don't own a vehicle which we might be able to get that higher performance out of. You can spend the money to put a Y rated tire on your KJ, but will you ever drive it at 300KPH? 100 cetane diesel sounds nice but so what? There is zero useful benefit past 55 cetane. Amsoil was the first to market synthetic oil but again, so what? Sony was the first to market a personal audio device, does that mean that I would buy a Walkman over an Ipod?

If a person really wants the best lubrication for their vehicle use a quality synthetic and change at the recommended 12K mile interval and the TBN will remain high and one will spend less overall than purchasing the best oil that money can buy and trying to get the longest possible life out of it. If one is into the Amsoil bypass filter and frequent UOAs, Mobil 1 can still be used with that system and one will still come out ahead financially.

Amsoil makes some great products and I firmly belive that their air and oil filters provide the most bang for the buck. but using their motor oil does not make economical or real world sense.

_________________
Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

Just to clarify many parts of your engine that have a oil film on it does see temps into the 4000 degree range the whole time the engine is running.

Not really in the lower 48 but Alaska does see those types of temps.And yes a Diesel will start just fine in those temps(no glow plugs either),I know I spend 3 months cold weather testing the Marine Corps new 7ton trucks in Alaska and saw those kinda temps very often.Used the cheapest 15w40 diesel oil(goverment bought).


Oh the longer the oil is used in the engine(with proper filtering) is actually better then changing the oil every 3000miles.The longer you run the oil the smoother the molicules get providing better lubrication,but proper filtering is needed.


And no I don't use Amsoil(I have when can be found locally),I normally use Mobil 1(helping Exxon make it's 39 billion a year profit).

Six pages of garbage and wasted band width. I guess you guys have nothing else to do. The Amsoil war has gone on on different web sites since the web has been around and its always the same old thing, those who swear by it and those the swear at it. All the dialog is a waste.

Greg

_________________
Greg
www.lubricationspecialist.com
888-306-4255

Well, the thread is titled "How Amsoil works"....so it would seem to be on topic at least.

For some like myself, this is the first time we've run into it. So while it may be old hat to you, its not to me.

So far what I've learned is that its not bad oil(if the benchmarks are to be believed) but that its benefits are unlikely to ever matter in the lifespan of a typical engine, that their marketing is deceptive to the extreme and that its a MLM, which in itself is a negative in my mind having delt with way too many of those in my life(mostly helping friends extricate themselves from them with a minimum of financial loss). I've also learned that they have a lot of excuses for not participating in standards testing even though those excuses don't seem to create any issues for their competitors.

To each their own of course, at least the stuff isn't harming engines.

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2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

Just to clarify the clarification (read here BS) so that no ones vision is obscured.

There is absolutely NOT any portion of any engine which reaches 4000 degrees. Steel melts around ~2500 degrees Fahrenheit. even if said part of the engine was made of titanium it would melt at 3034 °F. Even supposing that it could attain that temp, if it were indeed to be covered by a thin film of oil, it would erupt into a bright ball of flame seeing as how the oil with the highest flash point (Amsoil) catches fire at only 471F. Gotta use a little common sense there.

Again,NO diesel vehicle will start at -54F without a block heater plugged in or an auxiliary fuel heater such as Blueheat, both of which also heat engine oil. The USMC MTVR(new 7 ton truck) has an auxiliary fuel heater as part of the Arctic kit available for it. It does not use glow plugs but rather an induction air heater like the Cummins engines have. The reason that a diesel vehicle will not run at such low temps is that no publicly available D1 or D2 is liquid down that low. Even jet-A freezes at ~-50F. Even Amsoils own pour point depressor is only effective down to -22F http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/acf.aspx . If the USMC trucks start fine with the cheapest 15w40 then why spend extra money on Amsoil's lower pour point oil?

Finally; Where on earth did you hear that oil molecules get "smoother" with age? That's pure hogwash! A molecule's properties do not change with age. If that were the case no engine manufacturer or oil maker would ever require oil changes.

Gotta use a little common sense.

I am requoting myself again
Steve

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06 Silver Liberty
EHM/SEGR
Fumoto Oil Drain
No rock climbing
No mudding
Hangs behind my
motorhome on tow bars. Semi-retired and still learning.