Trying to learn how Amsoil works

chrispitude · **Posted:** Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:23 pm

LanduytG wrote:

Unless the Fumoto is clean and you then run out a pint or so of oil before sampling I would stay away from it. The theft sampler with a double dumb before is way better. Do your sampling method the same every time as well.

Greg

I could probably run a quart into a container, grab a sample, then pour the quart right back in the top of the engine.

Greg, out of curiosity, what are your concerns?

- Chris

CATCRD · **Posted:** Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:27 pm

Road debris clogged up in the fumoto.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:30 pm

chrispitude wrote:

LanduytG wrote:

Unless the Fumoto is clean and you then run out a pint or so of oil before sampling I would stay away from it. The theft sampler with a double dumb before is way better. Do your sampling method the same every time as well.

Greg

I could probably run a quart into a container, grab a sample, then pour the quart right back in the top of the engine.

Greg, out of curiosity, what are your concerns?

- Chris

I can not speak for Gregg, but I’m assuming his concerns would be metal particles and other debris contaminating your sample. Clean the area around the drain plug thoroughly to avoid sample contamination. Allow oil to drain for three to five seconds prior to catching a sample. For best results, oil samples should be taken immediately after equipment shutdown, while the equipment is still at operating temperature. This will provide optimized results that more closely simulate “real-world” particle distribution throughout the lubricant. Dirt, water and other debris tend to settle to the bottom of the reservoir while light fuels tend to float. This separation will compromise your analysis.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:40 pm

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Reflex · **Joined:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm **Posts:** 567

dieselenthusiast wrote:

Vtdog and Threeweight, I couldn’t agree with you anymore. You both are right, Amsoil is not going to be cost effective if you’re not taking advantage of longer intervals accompanied by an oil analysis. My purpose and involvement concerning this thread was to inform people that Amsoil does make excellent products and to show that their products are NOT snake oil! Furthermore, I attempted to make this thread helpful to viewers by showing what Amsoil products are CRD specific.

And “YES”, taking oil samples is an invested interest as well as a hobby for me!

The 'snake oil' part is when Amsoil distributers claim that the product makes the engine run better, get better mileage, reduce emissions, better handle extreme conditions, change oil less frequently, etc. It does NONE of those things, and no test has demonstrated them. In fact I'd practically guarantee that there would no noticable difference vs. good old dino diesel on regular intervals vs. a engine running Amsoil after 250k miles, and considerably less money would have been spent in the process.

Thats the point, thats why it comes accross as snake oil. If it were sold as 'pampering your engine for enthusiasts' that would be one thing, but making specious claims simply undermines the credibility of the product. The simple fact is that your engine will run just fine just as long on regular oil, and it certainly has no advantages over another quality synthetic.

JJsTJ · **Posted:** Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:23 pm

Every oil company that has made claims of reduced friction, reduced wear, longer change intervals, better fuel mileage, reduced emissions, etc. using synthetics has just been lying all these years. I now realize that all the information I have read on synthetic oils is bogus and they are all snake oil. Thank goodness there are people on this forum that know everything while the rest of the world is just in the dark. I'm gonna go buy a couple gallons of that great recycled oil that meets the wonderful minimum API specs and just change that every 3k and use a Fram filter too. My Jeep will love me for it.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:47 pm

JJsKJ wrote:

Every oil company that has made claims of reduced friction, reduced wear, longer change intervals, better fuel mileage, reduced emissions, etc. using synthetics has just been lying all these years. I now realize that all the information I have read on synthetic oils is bogus and they are all snake oil. Thank goodness there are people on this forum that know everything while the rest of the world is just in the dark. I'm gonna go buy a couple gallons of that great recycled oil that meets the wonderful minimum API specs and just change that every 3k and use a Fram filter too. My Jeep will love me for it.

X2
I’m glad that we now know the truth about synthetic oil companies who claim that their oil will reduced friction, reduced wear, longer change intervals, better fuel mileage, and reduced emissions! Gosh JJ, can you believe that we actually thought the myth about synthetics was true? :oops:

I can’t believe my Tahoe actually held up to 247,000 miles with the original motor and transmission! :shock:

Seriously, I only changed my oil once a year running 0W30 (a grade of oil that is like water) and never had problems! :shock:

Wow, I got lucky!

JJ, let me know when you become a FRAM dealer, I want the best filter you got for the cheaptest price.

Reflex · **Joined:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm **Posts:** 567

Some of us believe evidence. Others of us are convinced by aggressive marketing tactics. I'll use what Chrysler reccomends, I'm somehow certain that its good enough as long as I follow the reccomended intervals under normal use.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:52 pm

Reflex wrote:

Some of us believe evidence. Others of us are convinced by aggressive marketing tactics. I'll use what Chrysler reccomends, I'm somehow certain that its good enough as long as I follow the reccomended intervals under normal use.

You might want to call Chrysler to get what they consider "normal" use,it'll blow your mind,I guarantee :lol:

,I bet according to them you are abusing your KJ.

Reflex · **Joined:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm **Posts:** 567

tjkj2002 wrote:

Reflex wrote:

Some of us believe evidence. Others of us are convinced by aggressive marketing tactics. I'll use what Chrysler reccomends, I'm somehow certain that its good enough as long as I follow the reccomended intervals under normal use.

You might want to call Chrysler to get what they consider "normal" use,it'll blow your mind,I guarantee :lol:

,I bet according to them you are abusing your KJ.

Perhaps.

But once again remember that the comparison set up above, between cheap recycled oil and top end Amsoil is a false comparison and a strawman. The truth is that I can get any number of high quality oils for prices considerably below Amsoil that will do the job just as well on a regular schedule. In fact I could likely change my oil 2-3x as often with another brand for less money and have a higher quality of oil(due to it continually being fresh/new) at any given moment. Thats the point, the superior protection Amsoil *may* offer is irrelevant to anyone operating the vehicle in a normal fashion(ie: not subjecting it to the heat of the sun and the cold of space). So whether or not it could theoretically outperform a 'cheaper' alternative in such extreme scenerios is pointless.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:04 pm

Reflex wrote:

But once again remember that the comparison set up above, between cheap recycled oil and top end Amsoil is a false comparison and a strawman. The truth is that I can get any number of high quality oils for prices considerably below Amsoil that will do the job just as well on a regular schedule. In fact I could likely change my oil 2-3x as often with another brand for less money and have a higher quality of oil(due to it continually being fresh/new) at any given moment. Thats the point, the superior protection Amsoil *may* offer is irrelevant to anyone operating the vehicle in a normal fashion(ie: not subjecting it to the heat of the sun and the cold of space). So whether or not it could theoretically outperform a 'cheaper' alternative in such extreme scenerios is pointless.

Well, obviously we’ll have to agree to disagree.

trac95ker · **Joined:** Tue May 23, 2006 3:02 pm **Posts:** 116

Reflex

Where is your proof that dino oil is just as good as synthetic?

Reflex · **Joined:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm **Posts:** 567

trac95ker wrote:

Reflex

Where is your proof that dino oil is just as good as synthetic?

Not claiming it is. Just pointing out that its not going to make a difference if reasonable intervals are used to change it. It dosen't have to be 'as good' to be 'good enough'. As pointed out earlier in this thread, the point at which differences begin to show between the various oils are beyond what an engine such as ours will ever encounter in even extreme usage. Its like arguing about which spoiler would work best at 200mph...but the car its attached to is a Yugo. Sure there may be a diff, but its not one that would ever matter for the vehicle involved. Same story here, the stuff that Amsoil or even Mobil1 and other top end oils can theoretically handle is irrelevant since those conditions will *never* be hit in operation with our Jeeps.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:18 pm

Reflex wrote:

trac95ker wrote:

Reflex

Where is your proof that dino oil is just as good as synthetic?

Not claiming it is. Just pointing out that its not going to make a difference if reasonable intervals are used to change it. It dosen't have to be 'as good' to be 'good enough'. As pointed out earlier in this thread, the point at which differences begin to show between the various oils are beyond what an engine such as ours will ever encounter in even extreme usage. Its like arguing about which spoiler would work best at 200mph...but the car its attached to is a Yugo. Sure there may be a diff, but its not one that would ever matter for the vehicle involved. Same story here, the stuff that Amsoil or even Mobil1 and other top end oils can theoretically handle is irrelevant since those conditions will *never* be hit in operation with our Jeeps.

Reflex I don't think that you will be able to convince most Amsoil users that they are wasting their money by using it. It tends to make people happier when they can say that they have the "best" of whatever product that money can buy. I have had the same conversation with my brother who is an Amsoil dealer many times. Even though Amsoil uses "snake oil" sales tactics, its no worse than the statements made by any other motor oil company, Shell, Mobil, Penzoil, Valvoline etc all claim to have the best product available which will practically overhaul an old engine with a simple oil change. But if someone were actually interested in finding out about which would be the most sensible oil to use and stumbled onto this thread I think that they will have more than enough info to make an informed decision.

Reflex · **Joined:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm **Posts:** 567

nursecosmo wrote:

Reflex I don't think that you will be able to convince most Amsoil users that they are wasting their money by using it. It tends to make people happier when they can say that they have the "best" of whatever product that money can buy. I have had the same conversation with my brother who is an Amsoil dealer many times. Even though Amsoil uses "snake oil" sales tactics, its no worse than the statements made by any other motor oil company, Shell, Mobil, Penzoil, Valvoline etc all claim to have the best product available which will practically overhaul an old engine with a simple oil change. But if someone were actually interested in finding out about which would be the most sensible oil to use and stumbled onto this thread I think that they will have more than enough info to make an informed decision.

Oh I agree that I won't convince the Amsoil people. I do not agree that thier tactics are on the same level as others however. Putting on thier label that they are #1 or the best or whatever is nowhere near what the Amsoil dealers are doing. I haven't found Mobil1 shills all over forums using anecdotes to claim great results, I have not found those companies lying about why they aren't doing API tests, I haven't seen them putting up fake websites using scare tactics or faking tests. Thats my point, they let the product speak for itself and advertise like anyone else, no overt deception involved.

Just read the edit history of the Amsoil Wikipedia entry to get a feel for how this company operates. I think Scientology could learn a few tricks from them....

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:09 pm

Reflex, you have to understand that AMSOIL has been a successful growing company since 1973. Most people who use their products are happy with their products and continue to use AMSOIL products. Users of Amsoil products have real-world documentation, statistics, data, and positive experiences to prove that Amsoil performs the way the manufacture proclaims. People are not going to pay premium prices for oil, filters, and other lubricants if the product is “snake oil.” You have absolutely NO factual evidence that supports any of your opinions. So let your opinions be opinions. Nobody on this thread is pushing the sale of the product. I could care less what you or anyone else uses in their KJ’s. The thread start was, “Trying to learn how Amsoil works”. I have addressed how Amsoil works. I have shown the benefits of using Amsoil, and I have given testimonies from people who have used the product. At this point, you need to let it go. Instead, allow this thread to be a helpful tool for those who are looking into Amsoil and let them decide if they want to use any of their products. Amsoil doesn’t just make oil, they also make great air and oil filters, which might be one of the most popular air filters for those on this forum running the CRD. Amsoil continues to be a great proven product.

LanduytG · **Joined:** Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:59 am **Posts:** 188

I have not found those companies lying about why they aren't doing API tests, I haven't seen them putting up fake websites using scare tactics or faking tests.

All I have to say is prove it if you can.

Greg

Reflex · **Joined:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm **Posts:** 567

dieselenthusiast - I think the issues you mention have all been addressed, if you have more, feel free to bring them up, however I hope you can be more productive than simply reprinting the Amsoil website in this thread and driving off knowedgable posters like Uffe. Marketing material dosen't prove anything, and much of what you've brought up has already been debunked in this thread. And I'm sure Amsoil has been successful, as I said way back in the first couple pages, there are suckers born every minute, even as far back as 1972...

Edit: Just a quick note, dieselenthusiast, I did a little research and found that you participate in several forums, and on all of them you act like a Amsoil billboard, repeatedly bringing up specific product names and reccomending them, regardless of the topic at hand. I'm going to call an ace an ace and just call you a shill.

LanduytG - Several links to Amsoil shill behaviour, including scare tactics and unverified testing have been provided in this lengthy thread. I am not going to do your homework and dig it all out, if you really cared about my answer you'd already have done so. I'm guessing, however, that your just trying to make it seem like there is still a controversy, and that the claims have not been backed up when you know full well that they have been. You are, however, providing more evidence for my points, namely that the only real defenders of Amsoil are its dealers(you) and its shills(changed from dupes)(dieselenthusiast). The independent wrench heads reject it.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:53 pm

Reflex wrote:

dieselenthusiast - I think the issues you mention have all been addressed, if you have more, feel free to bring them up, however I hope you can be more productive than simply reprinting the Amsoil website in this thread and driving off knowedgable posters like Uffe. Marketing material dosen't prove anything, and much of what you've brought up has already been debunked in this thread. And I'm sure Amsoil has been successful, as I said way back in the first couple pages, there are suckers born every minute, even as far back as 1972...

LanduytG - Several links to Amsoil shill behaviour, including scare tactics and unverified testing have been provided in this lengthy thread. I am not going to do your homework and dig it all out, if you really cared about my answer you'd already have done so. I'm guessing, however, that your just trying to make it seem like there is still a controversy, and that the claims have not been backed up when you know full well that they have been. You are, however, providing more evidence for my points, namely that the only real defenders of Amsoil are its dealers(you) and its dupes(dieselenthusiast). The independent wrench heads reject it.

You still haven't shown any concrete proof that Amsoil doesn't work or that other oils work just as good.You should go visit a Motocross race and see what they think of Amsoil,or snowmobilers.

Guess you have alot of shares in Exxon/Mobil don't you? I bet you do :wink:

,gotta keep your profit going up and not down.

Reflex · **Joined:** Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm **Posts:** 567

1) No, I don't have to prove anything, my point is that Amsoil is not worth the price, a point proven several times in this thread. I've stated several times that I'm not claiming its crap, I'm pointing out that your paying for benefits you'll never realize. The only ones making fantastic claims in this thread are the Amsoil dealers and shills.

2) Nope, don't own shares in anything right now, sold my last bit of shares(in a tech company) back in 01 to buy a house. Never worked nor invested in the oil industry.

Trying to learn how Amsoil works

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