This flies in the face of everything I have ever heard about diesel. It also does not hold water when compared with the fact that for the last 15/20 years diesel has been cheaper than RUG. It is only recently that it has become more expensive. If it needed more oil to make-- it would have been more expensive, not less.

I hope that I'm wrong... I own 2 diesel vehicles. And have no intentions of buying another gasser. My information was taken from industry research, gov, and academic sources... none of which warrant blind trust or are above scrutiny. Unfortunately I don't have the resources to float any science that could contradict these numbers.

I'm not sure on the protocol for sighting references on forums so I'm not going to; it should be pretty easy to chase down some sources (I didn't make this up).

Also, there is definitely an anti-diesel lobby (maybe a loose interpretation of "lobby")... these folks usually rally around the particulate/soot issue. You can bet your a** I'm not part of anything anti-diesel... put loosely, I'm in the diesel business.

_________________
2005 Flame Red CRD Sport
ASFIR Skids
245/75-16 KL71's
Al's Gen4 A-arms
Rubicon MOABs
Frankenlift II
2 ring clevis w/ rear spacer
Super Nerfs

It's a supply and demand issue and how the speculators jack up the futures market. The demand for Diesel has grown far and away faster than the demand for gasoline. Transportation deregulation in the 80's has caused an exponential growth in the the trucking industry. This winter has created a larger demand for heating oil (i.e. a distillate the same as diesel). Thanks to the political demand for biofuels, there is a subsequent increase in demand for diesel for crop production. Also, the U.S. dollar is in the crapper right now, and oil/fuels are a commodity just like metals and grains. It just plain takes more dollars to buy a commodity because the value of the dollar is less. There are only a few options... decrease demand, increase supply, increase the dollar's value.

If you can solve these problems, I will be more than happy to vote for you! You are just the capitalist I have been looking for!

_________________
*************************************
Environmentalist Green + Socialist Red = Facist Brown

2006 Liberty CRD, Frankenlift II, Al's A Arms, Moog LBJ's, GDE tune, Etechno GX3123 Glow plugs, Fumoto drain valve, Elephant hose CCV mod.

Actually Geordi, much if not most crude is no longer refined by distillation alone. Since light sweet crude is getting harder and harder to come by, refinerys have developed the process of Hydrocracking. Hydro cracking gasoline is somewhat easer than diesel because diesel does indeed use more of the crude mass than gasoline. If one gallon of hydrocracked crude could be completely converted to gasoline or diesel, a higher volume of gasoline would be produced than Diesel because of the fact that diesel is about 20% to 30% denser (weighs more) than gasoline. With modern hydrocracking techniques virtually any percentage of any desired fuel can be obtained within certain limitations. Diesel was never really a "byproduct" of fractional distillation but simply had a more limited market and so brought a lower price. Nowadays refinerys can adjust their product output to what the market wants ie.. more middle distillates for winter heating and more light oils for summer driving. There is no conspiracy to do away with diesel powered transportation as shown by the increase of diesel vehicles produced around the world every year, but I'm sure that petroleum industries are down playing the importance of alternate sources of hydrocarbon fuels until they are in a position to make a lot of money from them.

_________________
Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

Fully agreed, with a couple more logs to throw on the fire-

It's an election year. Better than 90% of the eligible voters depend on gasoline for their primary mode of transport. Probably more than a little political pressure (and money) being thrown about to keep gasoline plentiful and as cheap as possible - ie, refine as much gasoline as possible.

Granted, crude oil inventories have went up for 7 weeks straight due to decreased demand. But when you look at the refined products - gasoline inventories are at a 14 year high, while distillates (including diesel) stayed steady or edged down slightly - other factors aside, that would seem to indicate they're concentrating on gasoline production.

Another factor going along with ethanol - they've got to have gasoline to blend it with to make E85 or whatever percentage blend, and for everyone involved to claim whatever per gallon tax credit or subsidy is in effect. That would be an incentive for them to concentrate on gasoline production.

Cowpie, what's the word in the OTR world on the effect these prices are having? I'm hearing of more and more owners parking their rigs because it's not worth their time anymore, and seeing more and more independent rigs delivering goods at Freightliner with "For Sale By Owner" signs attached to them. Since it directly affects my livelihood (building OTR rigs), I'm definitely interested in what's going on.

_________________
Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler

I am by no means an oil expert but I can speak with the basis of the fact that I run and I oversee my family's existance expenses and have the power to direct buying decisions for the better and prosper of my family. And Yes I see D#2 being a bit higher than RUG but the decision to run 100% family cars on diesel ( 1-Jetta TDI and 2-CRD) is still the most ecominical by far.
Recent tank estimates put the Jetta TDI at 46.5 MPG combined cycle and the CRD at 26.2 MPG combined cycle.
And yes we diesel users tend to be more realistic to measuring our MPG's and yes I know how everone will note that the desert Southwest is mostly flat and that drives up the estimates. But I also know I am getting these MPG's without polluting batteries both to manufacture and throw away.
I have read a bit on how distillites process out of crude in that column heating procedure and reports tell me it takes no more crude to come up with D#2 as it would to produce RG.
Opponents point out the added expense to the removal of sulphur, what about the on going expense of removing lead to produce RUG? And refineries do that molecule cracking (coking) to get more distillate level oils to the higher lighter gasoline/naptha levels. Should not this "extra processing cost" drive up RUG pricing?
So it comes back to politics and these oil companies' backed high prices and of course that extra high price of diesel. They do it cause they can get away with it.
So with things like GM's reluctance to go to light diesels ("SUV's and Silverados is where its at") a consumer will see, say a CRD for sale and say "Umm tiny 2.8 liters and $3.79 a gallon to run it?, Well I can get a Chev 4 door long bed with a 6.0 liter and pay $2.99 gallon and (this it where it gets good!) get better mileage and tank range (LOL)".
Well sorry for rant but its my opinion---

Roland

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2006 CRD LTD 2.8L VM Motori turbo,CAC, 100K-new timing belt
ORM-SEGR, Trans cooler, CLIII hitch front/rear, Journey HD controller
Mopar skids,"Stone Soup" rails, KK clevis fork 1" mild lift w/Daystar stops
215x85 LRD BFG Commercial A/T's, Rola Rack, V6 airbox, Fumoto valve
10K winch, B5 Biodiesel (ULSD CP3 lube)
Its a Diesel baby!

Gasoline has never had lead in it when refined from crude. Lead was added in times past in order to improve octane levels plus protect the old softer steel valves and seats. Petroleum companies loved it however when people thought that the refinerys were taking an extra step to "remove" lead from the fuel because that allowed them to charge more for a gallon.

Cracking is not coking (used to purify coal) nor is hydrocracking the same process as fractional distillation which was the old process.

_________________
Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

"...decrease demand, increase supply, increase the dollar's value..."

1 - Tougher fuel economy standards, shift federal auto industry subsidies away from research and into production, cut the CAFE credits for "flex fuel" vehicles (as 99% will never intentionally see a drop of ethanol). Extend the federal new car tax credit for hybrids and 40 mpg cars (including diesels), 30 mpg trucks and SUV's, expand the biodiesel tax credit programs that exist in places like Oregon (20 cents per gallon on B20 or B99 used) to the federal level).

2 - Steps above decrease demand, taking some pressure off the inflationary fuel pricing. Additionally, take a look at shifting transportation policy/tax structure away from trucking freight and back to more efficient rail transport (while at the same time investing in light rail for personal transportation in large urban areas and connecting major urban corridors).

3 - Stop spending vastly more money than the government takes in, adopt a federal fiscal policy based on the notion that priority #1 is the buying power/quality of life of US consumers. Globalism is great, until your government loses sight of the fact that we pursue globalism to benefit the overall US economy and US citizens, not maximizing revenue for shareholders.

Sorry, soapbox moment.

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited
Mopar engine, transmission, transfer case skids
245/70/16 Michelin Latitude X-Ice (winter)
235/75/16 Firestone Destination ATs (summer)
Thule roof rack, cargo box
V6 airbox mod
Flowmaster 50 2.5 inch muffler
Edge EZ module (set for fuel economy)
SEGR
TDIWagonGuy CCV filter
B99 (summer), B20 (winter)

Okayy, it's now $4.10 here, second day owning the libby now I'm gettin freaked out when i bought my cummins ram in 2002 diesel was at least 60 - 75 cents cheaper than gas. I don't think it has anything to do with seperation or manufacturing processes of gas or diesel. I think it 's more of a got the transporattion industry by the stones issue ie railroad, trucking, construction etc. And there's no way anybody can tell me diffrent until the big oil profit margins start to decrease. Case in point We're gettin Shafted!

Coal Cracker: You are right, Oil companies are gouging us. At $103 a 44 gal barrel, crude is costing them $2.44 per gallon Which is outrageous

Tack on the Taxes, refining costs, transportation costs, and distribution costs and what is left over is their profit.

In case you can't figure out why our elected officials don't do any thing, they are making more money than the Evil Oil companies, the hauler, and the local station together

And of course, all the government has to do is cash the checks (hard work?)

The deep dark dirty little secret is that the higher the price the more the States and Locals make in taxes

Steve

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2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle

In Wi I believe taxes are by the gallon, so price of gas has no effect how much state gets. Am I not seeing something? Either way we are being screwed. Looks to be another $10B dollar quarter for Exxon Mobile.

I look at this way, I get 20 - 28mpg with my CRD and I got 10-15mpg with my RAM. Diesel would need to be almost double of RUG just to break even. We are still better off comparibly.

Passed a station in Moundsville, WV, diesel at $4.219 per gallon!

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08 Elantra SE daily driver
2001 F-250 powerstroke

What did adding a scooter do to my overall MPG?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

6 days and I traveled a total of 540.7 miles (302.1 in Jeep CRD and 238.6 on Lambretta 50cc) in two vehicles. The Jeep gets about 21.5mpg and the Lambretta gets about 119.4mpg.

The new overall average is ~31.35mpg...that is ~ a 49.2% increase in overall FE. Saved me $29.40 in fuel costs.

As I get my routine down better, I think I can make the Lambretta do most of the miles and increase the "overall FE".

***120 miles on the Jeep was a camping trip***

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Founder of L.O.S.T.
2006 CRD Sport
Mods: GDE Hot Tune w/ 364#@2000rpm/Air Box /3" Str8 Exhaust/ASFIR Alum Skids/245-75R-16 Cooper STT PRO/OME LIFT w/Clevis & 4 Spring Isos/AirTabs/Rigid 10" S2 LED/4xGuard Ctr Matrix Bumper
Drag Strip:Reac=.1078_60ft=2.224_1/8=10.39@64.8mph_1/4+16.46@80.8mph

Hmmm, let's see....

Takes 7 gallons per week in the MB to drive to work. At $4/gallon, that's $28 per week, or $112 per month. That's $1344 per year.

Hmmm, what about my electric pickup? Takes 10 kwhr for one day's commute, at 10 cents/kwhr that's a buck a day or $5 a week, $25 per month, $300 per year.

But a set of batteries only lasts me roughly 12K miles before they have too little range to make the commute and therefore have to be replaced once a year. $1500 for a new set of 20 6 volt golf cart batteries. The electric is now up to $1800 per year.

Even at 4 bucks a gallon, it's still cheaper to drive the MB by nearly $500/year.

_________________
Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler

The oil companies make $.25 per gallon profit on the finished product. I know here in FL, the Tax on diesel is $1.27 per gallon. So everytime I fill up in Ft Lauderdale, the state is making 5x what the Oil company does and they have none of the burden of bringing it to market.
The high cost of diesel is a direct result of our limited refining capacity and high taxes. We could fix that but no one wants a refinery in their backyard.
The oil companies make a lot of money because a lot of people buy their product.

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2006 CRD http://www.UtahPowderCoatings.com/ http://www.gorecon.com/ I'm kind of a big deal.
RL rear bumper, ARB front bumper, Mile Marker winch, Power Tank, Skids by Mopar & Skid Row, RL Super Skink Sliders, 235/85R16 MTR, Air Flow Snorkel, DTT, 4.10 gears, Frankenlift II, Katskin leather, JL Audio stereo, Rosen video.

The oil companies make $.25 per gallon profit on the finished product. I know here in FL, the Tax on diesel is $1.27 per gallon. So everytime I fill up in Ft Lauderdale, the state is making 5x what the Oil company does and they have none of the burden of bringing it to market.
The high cost of diesel is a direct result of our limited refining capacity and high taxes. We could fix that but no one wants a refinery in their backyard.
The oil companies make a lot of money because a lot of people buy their product.




I think yhe oil companies are making a lot more than $.25 pg! The oil coming out of the ground costs nothing,except for the drilling costs,so you need to ask yourself is oil so expensive due to the drilling and transportation and refining,or are they just out to screw us without the petrolium jelly?
As for the state of FL, I think those numbers are fuzzy math, here in the peoples republic of Massachusetts we are paying $.20 per gallon. I believe that in all of the states the tax pg is fixed for whatever that state charges,just like the federal tax pg at I believe $.20

Can anbody tell me what they think the percentage of Exxon Mobils profit is derived from sales in the US? I know because I am a shareholder but people are suprised when I tell them. really suprised.

all i have heard about exxon is they made record profits last year.

as far as diesel refineries go i believe they are currently expanding/building one

_________________
Trevor

'05 Limited CRD Inferno Red Pearl Coat
Home made provent installed @ 35443, SEGR installed @ 35466, Fumoto valve @ 37500, trans and transfer case skid, In tank pump installed @ 43500, Suncoast TC & Transgo Shift Kit @ 44730, EGT, Boost, Trans temp gauges, Samco hoses, Rebuilt Trans w/ HD454RFE kit @ 56K, Inmotion Stage 2 @ 56K

I believe the markup per gallon works out to less than $0.25/gallon actually but I don't have the numbers handy. As for taxes, your overestimating your taxes considerably. The total taxes paid on diesel in Florida, including state and federal taxes is $0.534/gallon, as per: http://www.api.org/policy/tax/stateexcise/index.cfm

BTW, our refining capacity is not maxed out, I believe we are running around 80-85% last I looked with a lot of expansion happening at existing refineries. The largest culprits for high gas prices ultimatly are 1) increasing global demand, and 2) The fact that the dollar has plunged in value, worth less than half what it was in 2001. If the dollar was still worth what it was we'd be talking about $52/barrel oil and $2.25/gallon pump prices.


Keep in mind that the oil companies are not the ones who own that oil in the ground, the prices are set by the nations they purchase it from.

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2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

Correct on refinery capacity. Useage this past week was only 85%, up from 83% the week before.

What's interesting is the inventory numbers that go along with that - crude inventories up 25 million barrels since the beginning of the year, went up for 7 weeks straight prior to taking a small dip this past week - gasoline inventories were at a 14 year high last week, and went up again this week - while distillates went down by about 1 1/2 million.

A weak dollar is only half the story. The other half is speculators and hedge fund managers taking advantage of the weak dollar to make large profits in dollar-traded commodities such as oil and gold, looking for another venue after the subprime mortgage and credit sector mess they created.

Even with the weak dollar, both OPEC and independent analysts say the fundamentals are not there to support oil prices at these levels - it's being driven by greed, panic, and fear. In other words, like the tech and housing markets, they're saying we have another "bubble" on our hands.

_________________
Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler