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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:17 pm 
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Reflex wrote:
chris - Once again thats not empiracle[sic] evidence, empiracle evidence requires a repeatable experiment...


Almost forgot:

What is empirical evidence

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From the Miriam Webster online dictionary empirical means: 1 : originating in or based on observation or experience <empirical data> 2 : relying on experience or observation alone often without due regard for system and theory <an empirical basis for the theory> 3 : capable of being verified or disproved by observation or experiment <empirical laws>


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:37 pm 
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Reflex wrote:
The Amsoil preventing auto manufacturing certification has been mentioned all over the web, on Wikipedia(for what thats worth), etc, I cannot find a hard source for it but the fact that I can ask them about just about any oil, synthetic or not and get an answer says quite a bit in itself. I do know that its entirely possible to block such publishing, it happens in the tech industry all the time when OEM's do not like web site reviews.

chris - Once again thats not empiracle evidence, empiracle evidence requires a repeatable experiment, and your assertion does not make it 'proven'. However even if it were true, you still have the burden to prove that Amsoil handles this condition any better than any other synthetic, as several people in this thread have pointed out, Amsoil has negligible(and unproven) benefits over several other synthetic brands, yet costs significantly more than most.

And I'm not going to quote the whole first ten pages of this thread where members such as Uffe and nursecosmo among others pointed out the fallacy of the Amsoil claims. The point is that the most technical members who have participated have almost all spoken against it, while the retailers, shills and dupes with little technical knowledge has spoken in favor of it. That says quite a bit right there.


What makes them the oil pros?? It doesn't matter what anyone on here says in favor, you will still fight it. Funny, all the info you find online in favor you dispute but anything that looks negative about the product you are in favor of. It appears you are chosing who You want to believe.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:43 pm 
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Reflex wrote:
The Amsoil preventing auto manufacturing certification has been mentioned all over the web, on Wikipedia(for what thats worth), etc, I cannot find a hard source for it but the fact that I can ask them about just about any oil, synthetic or not and get an answer says quite a bit in itself. I do know that its entirely possible to block such publishing, it happens in the tech industry all the time when OEM's do not like web site reviews.

chris - Once again thats not empiracle evidence, empiracle evidence requires a repeatable experiment, and your assertion does not make it 'proven'. However even if it were true, you still have the burden to prove that Amsoil handles this condition any better than any other synthetic, as several people in this thread have pointed out, Amsoil has negligible(and unproven) benefits over several other synthetic brands, yet costs significantly more than most.

And I'm not going to quote the whole first ten pages of this thread where members such as Uffe and nursecosmo among others pointed out the fallacy of the Amsoil claims. The point is that the most technical members who have participated have almost all spoken against it, while the retailers, shills and dupes with little technical knowledge has spoken in favor of it. That says quite a bit right there.


So again you don't have proof of all your accusations its just opinion? I guess in your opinion then that anyone that sells Amsoil does not have any technical background or is even close to being qualified to speak technically about it? Its all one side then right?

It always amazes me the threads that are all over the internet about Amsoil and how bad it is and that it can't do what it says. But yet the company is growing double digit figures almost every year and they have been around for 35 years. I guess they are just geniuses when it comes to marketing and making a business grow when its products are all crap. Only in America.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:04 pm 
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It always amazes me the threads that are all over the internet about Amsoil and how bad it is and that it can't do what it says. But yet the company is growing double digit figures almost every year and they have been around for 35 years. I guess they are just geniuses when it comes to marketing and making a business grow when its products are all crap. Only in America.


Sales and/or sales increase have no bearing on the usefulness of any product. Think of how many people buy weight loss tablets, or "male enhancement" pills, for example.

The only factor that is of any value is independent testing by a neutral organization. For Amsoil, this would be the submission of their products to API testing for comparison to industry standards. Unless, and until that happens all the anecdotal reports about product performance are just stories and opinions. I will wait for the API report (which I stongly susoect will never occur as it would eliminate the "mystique").

Amsoil can best be described by PT Barnum: "There's a sucker born every minute"


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:09 pm 
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vtdog wrote:
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It always amazes me the threads that are all over the internet about Amsoil and how bad it is and that it can't do what it says. But yet the company is growing double digit figures almost every year and they have been around for 35 years. I guess they are just geniuses when it comes to marketing and making a business grow when its products are all crap. Only in America.


Sales and/or sales increase have no bearing on the usefulness of any product. Think of how many people buy weight loss tablets, or "male enhancement" pills, for example.

The only factor that is of any value is independent testing by a neutral organization. For Amsoil, this would be the submission of their products to API testing for comparison to industry standards. Unless, and until that happens all the anecdotal reports about product performance are just stories and opinions. I will wait for the API report (which I stongly susoect will never occur as it would eliminate the "mystique").

Amsoil can best be described by PT Barnum: "There's a sucker born every minute"

Amen.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:22 pm 
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vtdog wrote:
Quote:
It always amazes me the threads that are all over the internet about Amsoil and how bad it is and that it can't do what it says. But yet the company is growing double digit figures almost every year and they have been around for 35 years. I guess they are just geniuses when it comes to marketing and making a business grow when its products are all crap. Only in America.


Sales and/or sales increase have no bearing on the usefulness of any product. Think of how many people buy weight loss tablets, or "male enhancement" pills, for example.

The only factor that is of any value is independent testing by a neutral organization. For Amsoil, this would be the submission of their products to API testing for comparison to industry standards. Unless, and until that happens all the anecdotal reports about product performance are just stories and opinions. I will wait for the API report (which I stongly susoect will never occur as it would eliminate the "mystique").

Amsoil can best be described by PT Barnum: "There's a sucker born every minute"


Ok, so Amsoil's API products are golden then right? All API proves is your oil met a minimum standard of testing. How is it that the testing results that are out there comparing Amsoil to other oils, in writing, by third party labs, show it superior in so many categories yet API makes the final decision on which oils meet the minimums and that other comparative testing is meaningless?
I have a bottle of recycled oil that I got a few years ago when I had some used oil picked up for recycling. It has an API symbol on it and states that it is for API SJ, SH service. Does that make it as good as the bottle of Havoline I also have here in front of me that says it meets the same API specs? How about the bottle of Mobil1 w/ Supersyn that meats API SJ also? YES, They all meet the same MINIMUM standard. So which one is better? How would they all compare to one another in performance testing? Why should Amsoil have to meet a MINIMUM spec when in comparative testing it Beats the competition which is API certified? No auto mfg states that you HAVE to run an API spec'd oil because they can't so what is so great about API oils?
FWIW, Amsoils XL series of oils meets API SM/CF, SL, SJ so I guess it is better to use even though it Doesn't perfomance test as well as Amsoils non-API oils rated for higher mileage and better long term performance?

API is not the tell-all, beat-all determining factor of motor oil performance. It might be an industry accepted standard but it is only testing to a minimum standard.
API will not allow testing of some of Amsoils oils due to the higher levels of some performance enhancing ingredients in their higher performing oils so Amsoil does not waste their time and money bothering. Save your breath trying to say that there might be other mysterious reasons for not API testing an oil.

You are right about PT Barnum....Some of you are buying into the API being the final word in oil performance standards.

This is fun! :)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:23 pm 
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vtdog wrote:
Quote:
It always amazes me the threads that are all over the internet about Amsoil and how bad it is and that it can't do what it says. But yet the company is growing double digit figures almost every year and they have been around for 35 years. I guess they are just geniuses when it comes to marketing and making a business grow when its products are all crap. Only in America.


Sales and/or sales increase have no bearing on the usefulness of any product. Think of how many people buy weight loss tablets, or "male enhancement" pills, for example.

The only factor that is of any value is independent testing by a neutral organization. For Amsoil, this would be the submission of their products to API testing for comparison to industry standards. Unless, and until that happens all the anecdotal reports about product performance are just stories and opinions. I will wait for the API report (which I stongly susoect will never occur as it would eliminate the "mystique").

Amsoil can best be described by PT Barnum: "There's a sucker born every minute"


First, as already stated, you are wrong. Amsoil DOES have extended API approved engine oils. The Amsoil XL-7500 is API certified. The series 2000 and series 3000 oils (25,000 - 30,000 mile or 1 year intervals) are not API certified because of the amount of ZDDP. At one time it was believed that the ZDDP additives would be corrosive for catalytic converters. However, that theory has been debunked. It is widely known that the ZDDP additives does provide additional wear protection. Also, as stated over and over, the UOA’s does prove that Amsoil and other synthetics do what they advertise. It would be false advertising if the product did not perform at the level of expectation. Amsoil does save the consumer money if the product is used as recommended. I can go twice as long on my travel trailer without having to repack the bearings, which saves me a lot of money. Many big companies (fleets) have changed their trucks, buses, and other types of transportation to Amsoil and have saved money by extended drain intervals, mileage increase, less down time, and most importantly, they can go beyond the overhaul expectation. In this case scenario, thousands of dollars are saved.

Think about it, Biodiesel several years ago was considered by most as “skeptical”. It has taken years and years to prove it’s worthiness, and still today, people doubt the use of Biodiesel. Reflex, you for one said that the CRD was not designed to run off of Biodiesel, when in fact your CRD came rolling off the assembly line with B5. :wink: Dodge Cummins recently extended the B5 requirements up to B20 for their trucks. Likewise, automakers have already started to increase longer oil change intervals. Amsoil advocates are people who typically think outside the box, while those who are against their products seem to feel safe playing by the guidelines of meaningless certifications and staying in their own little box. And that’s okay, just don’t knock a product that you have no experience with and fill this thread with useless arguments that have been addressed over and over. 8)

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 Post subject: Using the Reflex-Google logic axium ...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:22 pm 
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... Coca Cola's formula does not exist. After all if it is not on Google, there is no empirical evidence of the existence of a Coca-Cola formula :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
Just because some of us have tasted and ingested Coca-Cola and done other strange things with it like remove grease with it, there is no empirical evidence to support this because the formula is not on Google :P :P :P :P :P :P


Steve :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:34 pm 
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I use Amsoil regularly in everything I have, but one thing that is most amazing.......

13 pages of posts and the conversation is not making any progress. I hadn't checked on this topic for some time. decided to take a look at the most recent page and can't tell the difference from the first two.

Someone needs to give in and call it a stalemate and not waste their time.
I won't quit using it and others will never use it. Who cares

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:57 pm 
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Cowpie1 wrote:
I use Amsoil regularly in everything I have, but one thing that is most amazing.......

13 pages of posts and the conversation is not making any progress. I hadn't checked on this topic for some time. decided to take a look at the most recent page and can't tell the difference from the first two.

Someone needs to give in and call it a stalemate and not waste their time.
I won't quit using it and others will never use it. Who cares


Think of all the progress made..........Amsoil will probably put their dealers through this thread to become "Dealer Certified"! :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:39 am 
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We respect all your opinions that have been stated, but feel this thread has reached the end of it's significance here. At this time it's our decision to lock this thread. If further explanation is needed to why this action was taken, please feel free to PM any of the site's administrators.

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