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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm
Posts: 679
Your gasser Liberty is also now a 6 year old design (more like 8 or 10 if you count the lead time and product testing). The quality of Chrysler products has undeniably slipped a wee bit in that time period. Jeep Compass, anyone? More buzzing at highway speed than a tin can full of bumble bees.

The serious problems with the Liberty CRD are not unique mechanical flaws with the diesel or its supporting components, but rather really cheap and crappy corner cutting by Chrysler. Plastic fuel filter head that sucks air (or melts out around the fuel heater), poorly designed and cheap EGR that is prone to failure, transmission components that are borrowed from a gasser and are too weak to handle the violent torque of a 4-banger diesel, etc...

I think a lot of Chryslers problems are related to an identity crisis that has carried over from long ago, made much worse by their stint with the Germans. They were doing ok focusing on beefy trucks and "real" SUV's in the 90's. Then they tried to grab some economy car market, and that kind of worked (Neon and their ugly little station wagon). As they tried to return to being a muscle car maker (talk about betting on the wrong horse when gas is 3.00+ a gallon) and making a bajillion different SUV's that are all so similar they end up competing with each other, they started to splinter their own market. To make matters worse, the ruthless cost cutting that came with the decline of their profitability started to eat into the quality of their products.

Cerebrus is in quite a pickle when it comes to rebuilding Chrysler. The "hot" products the either have on the market today or could soon get to market are mostly gas guzzlers, and consumer demand is a little chilly right now to say the least. Small diesels offer some hope, but how soon they can bring them to market is in question. They are completely lost on hybrid technology.

I think they ought to start slashing models left and right, and concentrate on a few key product lines -- Ram pickups, Dakotas, Jeep Grand Cherokee, Wrangler, and Liberty. On the car side, start working right now on vehicles that are marketable with high gas prices. Getting their small euro diesels up to US emissions standards ought to be high on the "to do" list.

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited
Mopar engine, transmission, transfer case skids
245/70/16 Michelin Latitude X-Ice (winter)
235/75/16 Firestone Destination ATs (summer)
Thule roof rack, cargo box
V6 airbox mod
Flowmaster 50 2.5 inch muffler
Edge EZ module (set for fuel economy)
SEGR
TDIWagonGuy CCV filter
B99 (summer), B20 (winter)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:38 pm
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Location: Colorado Springs
Quote:
The serious problems with the Liberty CRD are not unique mechanical flaws with the diesel or its supporting components, but rather really cheap and crappy corner cutting by Chrysler. Plastic fuel filter head that sucks air (or melts out around the fuel heater), poorly designed and cheap EGR that is prone to failure, transmission components that are borrowed from a gasser and are too weak to handle the violent torque of a 4-banger diesel, etc...
Your CRD is a same design and the same age for design time since CRD's have been around since the KJ was first sold.It was more the high sulpher fuel issue then badly designed EGR.They have been exporting CRD KJ's since '02 and without the major problems the 12,000 here in the states are having.Blame the fuel,seams like most are now running just fine with the ULSD.The TC in the US CRD is not weak just not the correct one for the CRD since the CRD makes it torque alot lower then a gas engine,the TC was borrowed from a 545RFE that was attached to a 5.7 HEMI(which has way more peak torque),there not having any problems with the there TC's.The ultra strict standards for deisels in this country are to blame and they are just getting stricter by the year,may even be phased out in 10-20 years all together.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:59 pm 
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LOST Junkie

Joined: Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm
Posts: 679
tjkj2002 wrote:
Your CRD is a same design and the same age for design time since CRD's have been around since the KJ was first sold.


No, it isn't. For the first few years of its production for overseas export, the Liberty CRD had a different engine (the 2.5 liter VM vs. the 2.8 we have), a different fuel rail (ours has a Bosch CP3), a different fuel filter head and system (a Racor 230 vs. the crap plastic housing on ours). The 2.8 and 545re were new stuff in 2005 when they appeared in the US.

tjkj2002 wrote:
It was more the high sulpher fuel issue then badly designed EGR.They have been exporting CRD KJ's since '02 and without the major problems the 12,000 here in the states are having.Blame the fuel,seams like most are now running just fine with the ULSD.


I'm sure the fuel had something to do with it, but the failures didn't stop in 2006. Folks are still regularly coming to the CRD forum here with questions regarding EGR failures. Most regular forum posters have solved our problem with the SEGR or ORM (disabling the EGR).

tjkj2002 wrote:
The TC in the US CRD is not weak just not the correct one for the CRD since the CRD makes it torque alot lower then a gas engine,the TC was borrowed from a 545RFE that was attached to a 5.7 HEMI(which has way more peak torque),there not having any problems with the there TC's.


Our torque converters contain "features" like plastic stators. The 545re transmission has spawned a small industry of aftermarket TC manufacturers, as the HEMI applications suffer from the same failures we do. The problems are well known, leading Chrysler to "fix" our vehicles w/ the infamous F37 transmission flash that de-tuned the shift points on the transmission so that the engine is never able to apply its maximum torque to the wheels.

The real fix for our CRD's is a replacement TC from Suncoast (which is adapted from the TC kit they created for HEMI Dodge Rams with failing TC's). Unfortunately, we can't get the torque we paid for when we bought the CRD back as Chrysler refuses to share the original software.

tjkj2002 wrote:
The ultra strict standards for deisels in this country are to blame and they are just getting stricter by the year,may even be phased out in 10-20 years all together.


I'm not that worried. You can already buy new Mercedes, Sprinter vans, and big pickups that meet the standards. Within a couple years you will be able to buy new VW TDI's and a Honda Accord diesel. Not long after that are new mid-sized diesel engine applications from Cummins, GM, and Ford. Even Toyota is getting in on the act (with rumor of a new Caterpillar diesel in the Tundra.) US automakers did a lot of whining hoping the standards would be dropped, but it doesn't seem to be that big of an obstacle to rolling out new diesels.

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited
Mopar engine, transmission, transfer case skids
245/70/16 Michelin Latitude X-Ice (winter)
235/75/16 Firestone Destination ATs (summer)
Thule roof rack, cargo box
V6 airbox mod
Flowmaster 50 2.5 inch muffler
Edge EZ module (set for fuel economy)
SEGR
TDIWagonGuy CCV filter
B99 (summer), B20 (winter)


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