Stuff'n'such

gmctd · **Posted:** Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:15 pm

Edge Trail - Rail pressure and MAP connections - switchable modes: stock - tow - performance ^35hp

Digi CR - Rail Pressure only - adjustable pot for performance levels
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=30514

Painless Performance Striker II - Rail Pressure only - switchable: stock - tow - performance
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=30153

TS Performance Power Play MP8 - Rail Pressure and MAP - switchable: stock - tow - performance ^50hp

Scorpion Trail Stinger - Rail Pressure -
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=30335

Diablosport Predator PowerPuck - Rail Pressure and MAP - switchable: up performance
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... 486#312486

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:06 pm

Cowpie mentioned in another thread that F31 and or F37 reduces max boost pressure from maybe 26 psi to 20 psi. If that's so do the edge or TS just do the MAP in one of their settings? Avoiding raising the rail pressure and getting the turbo boost back to where it was sounds like a sensable approach :lol:

When I got F31 done the tech said I also got F37 that I wasn't supposed to need and something definetly changed how it preforms and not for the better:?:

honey_don't · **Posted:** Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:16 pm

Do ya'll think boost could be safely increased by changing out the MAP sensor? When I had the CRD MAP out for cleaning I compared it to a Bosch "3 bar" MAP I bought to switch into the TDI when I put on a bigger turbo. The electrical connector is the same and though it has two attachment holes and the CRD's has one, it lines up. Basically, it would bolt up and plug in perfectly.

If you take a stock TDI and replace the stock 2.5 bar map with a 3 bar map boost is increased ~7 psi.

So, maybe there is a good Bosch MAP sensor to swap in to increase boost, and a boost valve could be used to prevent spikes if that were an issue.

gmctd · **Posted:** Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:30 pm

I mentioned in another thread that it takes both MAP and Rail connections to make power - rail only will make power, but that's like pouring gasoline down a carburetor - the engine will speed up and make more power, but much of the BTU content is lost because there is no additional air to maintain combustion - ECM control on the turbo must also be manipulated for efficient use of the extra fuel - dunno how they handle it, perzackly, because I don't get much hands-on - I need at least a week of 24-hour days to get caught up on what I'm craving to know - I don't see that happening, so all I can do is generalize on universal concepts - but it seems safe to say that the MAP connection removes the factory-set turbo limitations, as that would be necessary to compensate for fuel rates in excess of factory limits - the variable geometry is under dynamic control, not passive as with a spring-loaded wastegate

Also, that variable geometry works nothing like a wastegate, so it doesn't 'dump' excess exhaust gas when necessary - it basically changes the A\R of the turbine motor, moving the effective nozzle along the blade plane as necessary, commensurate with exhaust energy and required Boost - imo, that stuff is best left to the engineers, thru ECM control - the Boost\Fuel curves are still there, even tho offset by the power box - an extended range MAP would offset the Boost curves from idle to WOT, whether the additional fuel was there or not

Again, and I cannot stress this enuff, EGT and Boost gauges are your friends soon as you pop that hood with wrenches in hand

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

Joe Romas wrote:

Cowpie mentioned in another thread that F31 and or F37 reduces max boost pressure from maybe 26 psi to 20 psi. If that's so do the edge or TS just do the MAP in one of their settings? Avoiding raising the rail pressure and getting the turbo boost back to where it was sounds like a sensable approach :lol:

When I got F31 done the tech said I also got F37 that I wasn't supposed to need and something definetly changed how it preforms and not for the better:?:

I just got the boost gauge and can verify it usually boosts to 20psi (don't know what before F37) at which it stops boosting and then shifts. I can get it to 25psi if I get on it early and hard enough. I think what is going on is the TCM is telling the ECM to cut power before a shift, and it did not do that before. The turbo usually just happens to be around 20psi when this power reduction happens. Before, I bet it would keep fueling and boosting during the shift and the trans would eat the power but carry the boost across the shift, allowing it to reach higher and faster. This mod is probably a good thing for the life of the transmission, anyway.

gmctd · **Posted:** Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:16 pm

TRS\EMCC - torque reduction sense and electronically modulated convertor clutch - ain't ESP and ECM control great stuff? Not to mention F37 enhancement of those, for posteriority's sake.

Agreed on transmission mortality, until somebody finds the stone and figgers out the code

MrMopar64 · **Posted:** Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:23 pm

The max boost pressure which you are seeing on the gauge (20/21 psig) is the correct max B.P.

The torque reduction during shift has always been there. Can't say more about it or F37 for obvious reasons.

If you are brave, try removing the "torque reduction link" wire in the harness. That will disable it, but of course do it at your own risk.

honey_don't · **Posted:** Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:34 pm

here is a compressor map for a different, similar Garrett VNT turbo with the same compressor wheel size:

edit: deleted image, compresor map was for equivalent to Garrett GTA2056V, the turbo on the CRD GC, not the liberty which has a smaller turbo, so the map is non-applicable. Compressor map are on the Honeywell Garrett website for those who are interested.

gmctd · **Posted:** Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:45 pm

Nice, but how about one for their VGT turbo, different from the VNT turbo - anyway, wrong curves, dude - I'm talking the fuel vs Boost tables in the ECM, both of which are still there whether offset or not

honey_don't · **Posted:** Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:57 pm

gmctd wrote:

Nice, but how about one for their VGT turbo, different from the VNT turbo - anyway, wrong curves, dude - I'm talking the fuel vs Boost tables in the ECM, both of which are still there whether offset or not

how is VGT different from VNT? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_g ... rbocharger
I know what you were talking about but thought this map would be interesting reference the discussion on boost levels.

EDIT:
Garrett used to refer to their turbos by the term VNT, then they went to GT. They use variable vanes: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Gc2awh0O0Bc
Holset refers to them as VGT, they use sliding vanes: http://www.holset.co.uk/files/2_5_1_5-VGT.php

Both are Variable Geometry Turbos (VGT) with no external wastegate.

gmctd: Sorry for clogging up your thread with off-topic stuff and posting the wrong compressor map.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:02 pm

MrMopar64 wrote:

If you are brave, try removing the "torque reduction link" wire in the harness. That will disable it, but of course do it at your own risk.

We discussed this before - someone even tried it - but the consensus was that it's a momentary drop - and that the transmission would die without it.

gmctd · **Posted:** Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:35 am

No prob, _don't, on the map or any posted info - it all adds to knowledge base - just got back from Sis's 60th b'day dinner, thus my delayed reply(s) - you are correct, as is wiki: VVaneT and VNozzleT both fall under Variable Geometry Technology, where the shape of the compressor or turbine housing is altered - you do have the difference correct, as the radial vanes are in a fixed location, with variable angle to direct the exhaust gas, where the new Variable Geometry Tech turbos have axially movable fingers that enter the housing and gas stream as necessary to deflect exhaust gas into the turbine blades, but can withdraw, completely opening up the housing, where the vanes were always fixed in place - therefore the maps would not be similar to the VVT\VNT turbo(s), as the VGT turbo allows greater dynamic range - I think

I secretly severed our C1-11 TMR line awhile back - #2son reports that the trans no longer drops outta o\d, and SGII appears to be more functional, not falling on it's face for long periods of time

Almost fergot - the little mule passed state inspection with a probe up it's rear - had SEGR, Provent, and Edge in situ, as I left it - howzzat fer a clean Diesel?

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:41 am

gmctd wrote:

Almost fergot - the little mule passed state inspection with a probe up it's rear - had SEGR, Provent, and Edge in situ, as I left it - howzzat fer a clean Diesel?

Further shows that modern diesels get a bad rap :wink:

tulsa · **Posted:** Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:47 am

gmctd wrote:

Edge Trail - Rail pressure and MAP connections - switchable modes: stock - tow - performance ^35hp

Digi CR - Rail Pressure only - adjustable pot for performance levels

Painless Performance Striker II - Rail Pressure only - switchable: stock - tow - performance

TS Performance Power Play MP8 - Rail Pressure and MAP - switchable: stock - tow - performance ^50hp

It would be great the see all the CRD chips compared and owner comments placed in a single thread maintained by a gatekeeper.

Lewis

gmctd · **Posted:** Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:02 pm

If nothing else, I intend to continue editing the opener as info filters in - what should happen is members with each box can post his\her experiences with their chosen power-up, then the link to that post can be referenced under that box - choose yer pizen, clickalink.................

AZScout · **Posted:** Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:56 pm

Quote:

C1-11 TMR

What is this?

honey_don't · **Posted:** Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:08 pm

Joe Romas wrote:

gmctd wrote:

Almost fergot - the little mule passed state inspection with a probe up it's rear - had SEGR, Provent, and Edge in situ, as I left it - howzzat fer a clean Diesel?

Further shows that modern diesels get a bad rap :wink:

Yep, I just returned from a day at the Sebring le mans race, the diesels were the most quiet, least smoky, and fastest cars on the track! Sounded like a quiet jet, all we could hear was turbo. Really impressive.

gmctd · **Posted:** Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:48 pm

Connector C1 pin 11 - Torque Management Request.................

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