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 Post subject: Re: Well, It looks like the cost diff is up to 30%...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:04 pm 
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DarbyWalters wrote:
For now it looks like our advantage in mpg has been negated by fuel costs...it is up to 30% diffence now...I still like the drive of the CRD better than the 3.7L...and I think it will swing back the other way soon enuff.


Your ULSD is now 30% more per gallon than 87 octane? Have you double-checked your math on that?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:20 pm 
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chrispitude wrote:
Northeastern PA

RUG: $3.17/gal
#2: $4.09/gal


3.17 * 1.30 = 4.12

30% is about right.

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 Post subject: Re: Well, It looks like the cost diff is up to 30%...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:43 pm 
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indianrefining wrote:
DarbyWalters wrote:
For now it looks like our advantage in mpg has been negated by fuel costs...it is up to 30% diffence now...I still like the drive of the CRD better than the 3.7L...and I think it will swing back the other way soon enuff.


Your ULSD is now 30% more per gallon than 87 octane? Have you double-checked your math on that?


~30% depending on which station you frequent...as low as 26% or so.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:42 pm 
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retmil46 wrote:
bhysjulien wrote:
On our recent trip to ND I spoke with several friends that work in the oil field. For those that didn't know ND is going through an oil boom because of the high fuel prices. Anyway, they have found a pool of oil in ND called the Bakken reserve (sp?). It is supposed to have the same amount of oil in it as Saudi Arabia. It is also supposed to be sweet crude. They are also looking at building 2 refineries in the state so they don't have to build a pipeline or ship it long distances. I have no idea how accurate any of this is. This is what I was told by the guys in the field.


Well, paint me with red and white stripes and call me a barber pole - apparently those guys you talked with weren't BS'ing you. Did a Google search on the Bakken Formation, and found reports from the NDGS and USGS that backs it up. Oil companies are already buying up land for the mineral rights in ND, MT, and Canada over this formation. One oil company is already planning 300 wells in MT alone.

And from looking at the data, if you throw in the Canadian side as well, the estimates go up to 400 to 500 billion barrels - two Saudi Arabia's.

Now the real question - how much is recoverable, and what price does crude have to be at for it to be economical?


The guys in the field say crude has to be at least $35 a barrel to make it worth taking it out of the ground. I think we've met that. :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:10 pm 
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Location: Somewhere between Heaven and Hell... But it is really hot here on Earth...
Thats fantastic for domestic production, maybe now the fools wanting the spittoon that is ANWR will decide to leave the wilderness alone. But this will do nothing for the two REAL problems for domestic oil production:

Lack of refinery capacity to deal with the crude we already have...

And "splash and dash" theft of "incentives" (taxes they don't need to pay then) for taking our existing fuels and shipping them OUT of this country!
The EU is sending us gasoline, whoopty doo... But they are GETTING our domestic biodiesel (no matter what source) and our petrol diesel b/c it makes more money to sink our economy and sell it over there.

I'm not against the idea of a global economy, but it has to be done fairly. Reducing this country to a third world level b/c that is the cheapest labor rate available, but jacking up costs of EVERYTHING produced by that labor to first-world levels... Nobody can afford to buy what they are producing.

This is a SERIOUS problem. How many Chinese or Indians do you know (in those countries) with 50" plasma tvs or Nike shoes? Probably not many, except for the highest levels of their governments or businesses. Yet those people are building those goods for us, instead of US building them here.

Oil is just the latest and best example of this economic disparity. It is a wealth transfer, pure and simple. Only the wealthy will be able to afford it very soon at these rates, the rest of us will be forced into poverty just to attempt to survive. We wont be able to afford anything we produce, just like the Chinese making that 50" plasma.


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 Post subject: Look at the logistics...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:31 pm 
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...the oil at ANWR may just go to Asia instead of here. As far as ANWR goes, it has a lot less wild life than the Southwestern U.S. deserts, when the price of oil gets high enough, the oil up there will come out of the ground and the politicians will not be able to stop it, laws are changed by both the courts and our elected officials. With enough Lawyers the EPA could be proven to be an Unconstitutional Government Agency, would I want this to happen, no way.
The bottom line rules business, don't be surprised if the oil in Canada, MT, WY, ND goes out of the country. Get our Dollar back where it belongs and the price we pay will be more inline, we will all shut up, mod our Jeeps and post other items.

Back to the mods,

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:02 pm 
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geordi wrote:
It will have to. The truckers won't put up with this BS for long. One friend of mine who does short hauls in Ky said that his rig has to do 4 runs in a day for the truck to be profitable, if it only makes 3, the business is in the hole $90 on that rig.

The problem... That 4th run only means it is in the black by $10 each day.

This is not a sustainable situation, period. Fuel prices or whatever, something is gonna have to give, and I suspect its gonna be messy when it does.


Tell him to negotiate better contracts or quit hauling cheap freight. The company I am on with adjusts their fuel surcharge weekly on its contracts and we are presently getting .50 a mile fuel surcharge to cover high cost. May be higher by the time I post this.

Our fuel surcharge is based on 5.5 mpg average and base fuel cost of 1.25 a gallon. If a truck gets better than the 5.5 mpg average, that truck is actually making more net money with the fuel surcharge. I currently average around 6.4 mpg so, with the fuel surcharge, I am only averaging around $1 a gallon for fuel as my cost.

Trucking is a business, ya gotta run it like one or get out of it. I don't like what these fuel prices are doing to the economy and the little guy. It is driving everything up in price and really going to put the hurt on this country. It is only from purely a business standpoint that I am not hurting. Even with the fuel prices, my net to the truck is up year to date. Better tell your friend to find another place to operate a truck.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:51 pm 
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Hes only the driver, he doesn't do the business end of it, and the fuel costs (thankfully) aren't passed on to him.

If you've never been on US23 in Eastern Ky, you wouldn't know that there aren't really any other opportunities. Negotiation? Hah! Hes hauling coal. Limited to 35 tons plus the tare for the truck, and the rates are dogcrap. I don't know specifics, but they get paid by the ton delivered, and its low.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:34 am 
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:shock: $4.36 Hazleton Pa. :shock: $3.25 Gas RUG

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 Post subject: Re: Look at the logistics...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:53 am 
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warp2diesel wrote:
...As far as ANWR goes, it has a lot less wild life than the Southwestern U.S. deserts.

Steve


I agree with you on demand from Asia driving the prices, but this is a sound bite from the oil industry that is just silly. Ever been to Northern Alaska? When was the last time you saw things like this in the desert SW (these are all images from ANWR)?

Image

Image

Image

Alaskan politicians and the oil industry try and paint ANWR as a wasteland, hoping no one knows better.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:58 am 
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geordi wrote:
Hes only the driver, he doesn't do the business end of it, and the fuel costs (thankfully) aren't passed on to him.

If you've never been on US23 in Eastern Ky, you wouldn't know that there aren't really any other opportunities. Negotiation? Hah! Hes hauling coal. Limited to 35 tons plus the tare for the truck, and the rates are dogcrap. I don't know specifics, but they get paid by the ton delivered, and its low.


Business means going where the opportunity is. I live in central Iowa where there is really no good freight. I was with an Iowa carrier that had a good thing going for the last 8.5 years I was with them, but with the economic change, they are struggling. After a lot of research, I shifted over to a Nebraska carrier that has locked in some real good accounts. No... it's not the big boys that many think of for Nebraska carriers. :roll:

Willy Sutton said it so well... you have to go where the money is. if you expect to haul the same thing forever and make the same profits, you are not living in reality. Economies change and you have to change with it. Just ask GM, Ford, and Chrysler about that. Heck, even if trucking took a real dump, I would take the passenger endorsement on my CDL and haul those idiots that like to drop all their money at casinos while I got paid well and got free food at the casino!

For the individual you are talking about, there is ample opportunity to drive for a regional carrier that is making money and taking care of its drivers. And he would get home regularly during the week and off on the weekend. Maybe even home nightly, depending on the carrier. He needs to shop around. If he has a problem keeping legal with a truck, then his opportunities will be less. If he has a great driving record and excellent work history, the opportunities are unlimited. with my over two decades experience, all without a vehicle accident or moving violation, I had a lot of companies wanting me to come over to them. And that is even with the economic downturn and higher fuel costs. I was even able to negotiate better compensation package than normal because of my record. And I operate in the upper midwest that brings me by the house during the week and off during the weekend where a lot of drivers have to start in the "system" running everywhere.

You got to think outside the box if you want to survive an economic downturn. I remember the late '70s and early '80s really well and even with the economic problems then, I did relatively well. And we're not even close to those economic problems yet. Compared to those times, we have only hit a economic road bump. It seems like the sky is falling only because we have had it real good for quite a while.

Yeah, fuel costs are a real hit in the wallet and things are not looking good. But with a little persistence and resolve, it can be weathered quite well. Even during the Great Depression, there were those that actually inproved their lot in life.... and not by screwing over anyone.

I don't like spending $4 or more (future) for diesel for my CRD anymore than the next guy. However, in my travels (average 3000 miles a week), I can't tell that the high fuel cost is really bothering anyone. They still drive like they are trying to run poll position at Daytona or they are trying to set a land speed record at Bonneville. They view traffic lights like they are the christmas tree lights at the drag strip. If everyone just moderatated their driving habits, I would bet that all of us together could cut the fuel use in this country by at least 10%... and still drive the same number of miles. That would do more to reduce the cost per gallon than anything else.

light a candle instead of cursing the darkness.

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 Post subject: Re: Well, It looks like the cost diff is up to 30%...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:07 pm 
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DarbyWalters wrote:
indianrefining wrote:
DarbyWalters wrote:
For now it looks like our advantage in mpg has been negated by fuel costs...it is up to 30% diffence now...I still like the drive of the CRD better than the 3.7L...and I think it will swing back the other way soon enuff.


Your ULSD is now 30% more per gallon than 87 octane? Have you double-checked your math on that?


~30% depending on which station you frequent...as low as 26% or so.


Jeez. It's only 40-45 cents difference in my neck of the woods.


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 Post subject: gas (woops) feul woe`s
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:09 pm 
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Well, here in good old Maconga gas can be found for 3.19 ..Diesel @3.85 to 3.99
seems they are scared to make it 4.00. :cry: ( I wish )

Thats .80 cents in my book

BTW Just FYI
GC 14-15 mpg
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harley 55+ mpg
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Life is good :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:13 pm 
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here in central Virginia, RUG appears to be around $3.25 and Diesel around $3.80, a difference of 55 cents or 17%.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:57 pm 
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locally rug=3.01 diesel= 4.07 approx 27%


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:05 pm 
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vtdog wrote:
locally rug=3.01 diesel= 4.07 approx 27%


I'd calculate it as an increase from RUG - it's 35% higher than RUG as the reference.

- Chris

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