Biodiesel Project

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:43 am

A buddy of mine started a business in which they offer a service that cleans cooking oil for restaurants. Supposedly, at some point, they collect all the used oil. Anyway, he told me that I could have as much FREE used cooking oil as I wanted. In the meantime, he is buying some diesel van that will run off used cooking oil. What are my diesel engine options if I wanted to run this setup? And how difficult is the process of converting cooking oil into diesel fuel? I’m doing this as a hobby to keep me occupied. As a teacher, I could show my students some of the processes, which I think would really be cool. Please feel free to provide me with forums, educational websites, or other resources to find information on WVO. LOST is like a family to me, so I fully respect everyone’s opinions, experiences, and thoughts.

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:56 am

one of the best sites for a general how to that i have found is journeytoforever.org
and they have links to good forums like this one. good starting place

converting is not hard after the inital setup especially if you get good dewatered an
filtered WVO.... you have the classic electric water heater processors (and similar
55gal barrel), and appleseed processors right now. there are some more technologies
out there right now in the makings.

all in all the JTF site is a great place to start the wealth of knowledge.

BiodieselJeep.com · **Posted:** Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:31 am

There are two routes to using this grease:
1) Convert your diesel car to run on the straight grease
2) Convert the grease chemically into Biodiesel to run in your unconverted diesel car

And, of course, there is the safe option
3) Don't mess with an expensive car!

Converting your car can be done for under $2000 by a few companies...but there are well documented difficulties with that, particularly on the modern engines, and there was a conversion company that ADMITTED it had screwed up a Libby CRD (though they claimed it was impropper oil change intervals...hmmmm). Anyhow, if I had an older, disposable vehicle I might try this route because it reduces the chemical issues.
The two top conversion companies in the US:
www.frybrid.com
www.greasecar.com

Converting your grease into Biodiesel can be equally risky to your car...modern engines like high quality fuel. So, can you always make high quality fuel? Hopefully. Also, this invlolves chemistry...interesting for kids but there is some dangerous stuff involved. To learn more , the journey to forever site is good. Lye and methanol are nasty stuff though.

I would recommend a THOROUGH think-through on the risk to benefit analysis. And this is coming from a STRONG advocate of biofuels (check my sig). I personally buy biodiesel from distributors which comes with quality analysis. I pay $4.26 a gallon delivers, same price as diesel at the pump. My choice is based on moral/nationalistic issues, not price.

Best of luck. As INdiana Jones was told: Choose Wisely!

durangotang · **Posted:** Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:09 pm

I know some people who have converted the older toyota/VW/isuzu tiny little pickups wit the smaller diesels.... apparently those engines are ridiculously cheap to work on so they went with those. I think they were the '81-'84 model years they were working on.

I might be wrong on the model specifics though... trying to remember the details

mrkake · **Posted:** Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:14 pm

I am researching this as well. I bought the CRD with the intention of converting it or making biodiesel before I did my research (I know, I know, not too smart). The good thing that came out of me doing that is I wound up with a vehicle that I absolutely love. I would not recommend converting it to run on straight WVO. As mentioned before, there are a number of older vehicles that this is a viable option for and some can be found cheap (if you are just looking for a test bed for experimentation). The old Isuzu's are normally aspirated, non-EGR engines that will run on practically anything. Our newer modern engines are alot more picky about fuel. Also as mentioned before, the quality of your feedstock is vital to the quality of the biodiesel that you can produce. Unless you are going to submit a sample of each batch for testing with a gas chromatograph (an expensive proposition), you can not be absolutely certain that the fuel you produce meets ASTM standards. However, that being said, there are a lot of guys making high quality fuel from WVO. There are tests that you can do in your own shop to test for quality and lack of water etc. But the GC testing is what the big commercial companies use to certify that their fuel is safe to run. If you just want to do sample experiments for your students, you can always make small batches and blend it with dino diesel. They will still get the hands-on experience and you won't risk as much. In reading back through this post it makes it sound like I am anti bio which is not the case. I am gathering the parts to build an appleseed processor right now. But I am the operating partner for two restaurants and I can control the quality of my oil from the time it comes through the door unused. It is very high quality to start with and is only used once before being discarded (corporate policy = my gain). I am not trying to be discouraging, I just don't want anyone to go into it with blinders on

. Another great forum for research and information is here http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee

kcfoxie · **Joined:** Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:27 am **Posts:** 113

www.girlmark.com

Get her Biodiesel Homebrew guide. Make a $500 Appleseed processor (and think about how to make a smaller version for class room demonstrations), and make quality Biodiesel out of the oil.

This is far more chemistry, and that is important for the kids to be getting interested in. Chemistry is what changes our world. The titration process will be a lot of fun for the kids, and the methanol isn't that dangerous when properly used (being in a class room the chance of someone lighting a smoke is pretty slim).

What would be more fun? Showing kids how to bolt up a secondary system to a vehicle to run cleaned grease, knowing that it's likely going to have negative affects to the engine down the line (where does all that burned glycerin go?).... OR make a real fuel out of that old cooking oil and having them pump it into the jeep and pull a float with it (or something).

I would have been really jazzed and told my folks if my teacher was going to have us make a 20-gallon batch of biodiesel and then fill his truck up on it. You'd likely make the local paper for the experiment.

Also, if you've been doing it on your own you'll know about the filtration and how to ensure the methanol and water levels are just right. It'll take likely a week to get it ready for use... start on Monday and then have a Sink or Swim event on Friday. Perhaps if your school has pep rally's you could coordinate this experiment so that your Jeep pulls a float or something in the rally?

Just some thoughts. Not to say WVO isn't fun in itself, but I don't want to shoten my oil changes any more than necessary, and even with meticulous upkeep there are so many more problems with WVO in a turbo diesel than BioDiesel in a turbo diesel.

dkenny · **Posted:** Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:23 pm

I would suggest staying away from journeytoforever. most of the info is out of date or just wrong!!!

try

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc
http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/mainpage/

you'll find better information on making biodiesel and using svo in a 2 tank setup

-dkenny

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:44 pm

I know I will be opening myself up to massive potential for harassment here, but you can contact me via PM if you have any problems getting started. I personally would NEVER convert a vehicle to use the untreated oil, I would ALWAYS chemically convert the fuel and use that in the un-molested car.

My resume: I've built a total of 3 processors (all personal, and that was the development cycle) that eventually could make a 50 gallon batch with NO added heat or water. For your location, I would suggest a heated tank, but I would not use the appleseed water heater for the process tank... To me, that seems dangerous.

Anyway, I personally have produced over 1000 gallons of PURE biodiesel that I ran through the engine of my 2001 VW Jetta TDI that was UNMODIFIED, and continued to use the car for 60k miles AFTER I stopped producing bio, with NO adverse reactions at all. In total, I drove 30k miles without ever needing to visit a diesel pump, unless I was on a vacation away from home.

My mantra: Filtration filtration filtration. If you are collecting oil that is mostly clean (and NOT tallow!) then let it sit and gravity filter for at least a week. OR, the fast method: Heat it all to over 220 degrees F, to ensure that any tiny amounts of water are GONE from it. Then filter the oil through a large-size high-flow truck oil filter, or better yet, a ship's centrifugal fuel filter. That will clean out any wonton or burrito that might be in the oil.

Make your biodiesel after running a titration on the oil. I got to the point where I could estimate the NaOH values by sheer SIGHT of the oil, and was running about a 12% alcohol mix by the time I was most refined. If I could get E85 easily (Soon, I hope) then I would be more willing to run 25% or even 30% alcohol batches. The results settle overnight or at most, 36 hours, then drain the glycerin from the BOTTOM of the mix jug. Set aside, you will get more bio from that jug later as it settles more. The rest? Run it through another 10-micron filter (Or another centrifugal filter) and burn baby burn! Thats IT!

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:35 am

BiodieselJeep.com wrote:

There are two routes to using this grease:
1) Convert your diesel car to run on the straight grease
2) Convert the grease chemically into Biodiesel to run in your unconverted diesel car

For the direction of this thread, I would like to concentrate on the ability to convert the grease chemically into Biodiesel.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:07 pm

Google "Dr Pepper Biodiesel"

It is the easiest wnas cheapest way to give it a try. Just remember the useful way involves Methanol and Lye which must be handled with care. How ever you do it make sure you try to "recover" the Methanol and Water you used to recycle it...will save you money also. Also use Solar Power to remove water from the WVO before you start and after you have product (need to get water out after the washing step).

japerry · **Posted:** Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:26 pm

I've been flirting with conversion for about a year and a half now. This summer I should have everything ready to convert my Jeep to run WVO.

The main issues I have with making biodiesel are as follows:
1) There will be a substantial per gallon cost because of the additional ingredients
2) You'll still have to do some conversion to your jeep for at least filtering, since you're not going to make ANSI approved biodiesel
3) I've seen biodiesel do weird things to my engine, mainly clogging up the glow plugs. I've had them fail 4 times now.

Even though the cost of converting to biodiesel in the jeep will be cheap ($200-500?), getting a biodiesel processor is expensive ($1500+), and the process can be dangerous and expensive as well. Most people I see can only get down to 70cents/gal with biodiesel due to the other ingredients.

Instead, I'm planning on making a redundant, computer controlled dual-fuel tank system that will start and shutdown on diesel, and run WVO once it gets to temperature. I've seen some pretty good results from people using it currently, in fact one of them lives up in Fairbanks, AK! The shutdown system will also serve as an egr/turbo cooldown timer, which should keep that valve from clogging up.

If you're looking for good systems to run a car, specifically a mercedes, check out http://www.mercedessource.com/ -- I've been running my 1983 300SD on WVO for about 26,000 miles now, and its been great!

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:52 am

japerry wrote:

I've been flirting with conversion for about a year and a half now. This summer I should have everything ready to convert my Jeep to run WVO.

The main issues I have with making biodiesel are as follows:
1) There will be a substantial per gallon cost because of the additional ingredients
2) You'll still have to do some conversion to your jeep for at least filtering, since you're not going to make ANSI approved biodiesel
3) I've seen biodiesel do weird things to my engine, mainly clogging up the glow plugs. I've had them fail 4 times now.

Even though the cost of converting to biodiesel in the jeep will be cheap ($200-500?), getting a biodiesel processor is expensive ($1500+), and the process can be dangerous and expensive as well. Most people I see can only get down to 70cents/gal with biodiesel due to the other ingredients.

Instead, I'm planning on making a redundant, computer controlled dual-fuel tank system that will start and shutdown on diesel, and run WVO once it gets to temperature. I've seen some pretty good results from people using it currently, in fact one of them lives up in Fairbanks, AK! The shutdown system will also serve as an egr/turbo cooldown timer, which should keep that valve from clogging up.

If you're looking for good systems to run a car, specifically a mercedes, check out http://www.mercedessource.com/ -- I've been running my 1983 300SD on WVO for about 26,000 miles now, and its been great!

I saw on the news tonight that Dave Roberson (Mesa, Arizona) does the WVO conversions for about $2,000 dollars. His WVO vehicle is a 1995 Dodge Cummins.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:09 am

Yes, it’s 1:00 AM and I’ve been slowly reading and processing everyone’s responses and links that have been provided. I greatly appreciate all the information, suggestions, and enthusiasm.

I posted a thread back in January regarding Biodiesel and it’s worthiness, and amazingly the thread covered 22 pages of great information. I’m a visual and hands-on learner, so I’m looking at taking a class this summer on biodiesel as posted by kcfoxie
www.girlmark.com I’m really wanting to locate people who make biodiesel/WVO and offer an “open garage” so I can actually see and touch different set-ups. The wife and I like road trips, so we’d be willing to drive anywhere. :wink:

I’m still having a difficult time making a decision on what I want to do. I can honestly see advantageous and disadvantageous for WVO and Biodiesel. Either way, I plan on doing both at some point in time. I plan to find an inexpensive project vehicle that will allow me to experiment. I haven’t been this excited since I started my own honeybee apiary.

crd liberty · **Posted:** Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:15 am

dieselenthusiast wrote:

Yes, it’s 1:00 AM and I’ve been slowly reading and processing everyone’s responses and links that have been provided. I greatly appreciate all the information, suggestions, and enthusiasm.

I posted a thread back in January regarding Biodiesel and it’s worthiness, and amazingly the thread covered 22 pages of great information. I’m a visual and hands-on learner, so I’m looking at taking a class this summer on biodiesel as posted by kcfoxie
www.girlmark.com I’m really wanting to locate people who make biodiesel/WVO and offer an “open garage” so I can actually see and touch different set-ups. The wife and I like road trips, so we’d be willing to drive anywhere. :wink:

I’m still having a difficult time making a decision on what I want to do. I can honestly see advantageous and disadvantageous for WVO and Biodiesel. Either way, I plan on doing both at some point in time. I plan to find an inexpensive project vehicle that will allow me to experiment. I haven’t been this excited since I started my own honeybee apiary.

Check out this site for a ready to go system

http://www.evolutionbiodieselkits.com/

UFO · **Posted:** Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:54 am

With a used water heater, my first biodiesel processor cost me less than $300 to build, and all the rest such as a wash tank, filters and hand pumps the total cost was still less than $500. It was paid off in savings in less than 6 months.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:57 pm

crd liberty wrote:

http://www.evolutionbiodieselkits.com/

I also found this website: http://www.fuelmeister.com/products
Okay, I made my final decision today. Fist, I’m going the biodiesel route. Second, I’m probably going to end up buying an “already built” processor kit. Bottom line, I do not have enough time to hunt down parts, design my own biodiesel processor, and build it. I’d rather fork out the cash, buy a very efficient processor, and get busy making fuel. So, the plan is to spend the next few days researching biodiesel kits. Are there any other KIT recommendations?

crd liberty · **Posted:** Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:09 pm

dieselenthusiast wrote:

crd liberty wrote:

http://www.evolutionbiodieselkits.com/

I also found this website: http://www.fuelmeister.com/products
Okay, I made my final decision today. Fist, I’m going the biodiesel route. Second, I’m probably going to end up buying an “already built” processor kit. Bottom line, I do not have enough time to hunt down parts, design my own biodiesel processor, and build it. I’d rather fork out the cash, buy a very efficient processor, and get busy making fuel. So, the plan is to spend the next few days researching biodiesel kits. Are there any other KIT recommendations?

Please keep us informed of your progress

Steve

mrkake · **Posted:** Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:41 pm

The "Cadillac" of processors is the BioPro 190. Practically fully automated. It's also the most expensive. Here's a link: http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/biopro190.php. I dream of owning one of these babies. There are several other places to buy these but last time I checked, he had one in stock ready to ship.

There are a few companies that make kits that have all of the parts necessary to put together a processor. You can build one on 3 or 4 hours with basic skills and tools. You can also get kits for wash tanks and such. Much cheaper, but easy to build and parts are available everywhere.

The pre-built systems are nice. These units are pretty nice too: http://www.dynadroitbiodiesel.com/biodiesel.html

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:49 pm

I’ll use this thread space to keep track of all the different kits.

http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/biopro190.php
http://www.dynadroitbiodiesel.com/biodiesel.html
http://www.evolutionbiodieselkits.com/

(deleted) http://www.fuelmeister.com/

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:05 pm

mrkake wrote:

The "Cadillac" of processors is the BioPro 190. Practically fully automated. It's also the most expensive. Here's a link: http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/biopro190.php. I dream of owning one of these babies. There are several other places to buy these but last time I checked, he had one in stock ready to ship.

Wouldn’t that be cheating. :shock:

That machine does it all. :shock:

what is the cost?

Biodiesel Project

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