Biodiesel Project

UFO · **Posted:** Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:06 pm

dieselenthusiast wrote:

crd liberty wrote:

http://www.evolutionbiodieselkits.com/

I also found this website: http://www.fuelmeister.com/products
Okay, I made my final decision today. Fist, I’m going the biodiesel route. Second, I’m probably going to end up buying an “already built” processor kit. Bottom line, I do not have enough time to hunt down parts, design my own biodiesel processor, and build it. I’d rather fork out the cash, buy a very efficient processor, and get busy making fuel. So, the plan is to spend the next few days researching biodiesel kits. Are there any other KIT recommendations?

DO NOT get a plastic processor. Either you don't heat your oil and get inferior biodiesel, or you heat it and cause a safety hazard. There are many options that use a water heater or a steel tank as the reactor.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:08 pm

UFO wrote:

dieselenthusiast wrote:

crd liberty wrote:

http://www.evolutionbiodieselkits.com/

I also found this website: http://www.fuelmeister.com/products
Okay, I made my final decision today. Fist, I’m going the biodiesel route. Second, I’m probably going to end up buying an “already built” processor kit. Bottom line, I do not have enough time to hunt down parts, design my own biodiesel processor, and build it. I’d rather fork out the cash, buy a very efficient processor, and get busy making fuel. So, the plan is to spend the next few days researching biodiesel kits. Are there any other KIT recommendations?

DO NOT get a plastic processor. Either you don't heat your oil and get inferior biodiesel, or you heat it and cause a safety hazard. There are many options that use a water heater or a steel tank as the reactor.

So are you saying that I need to eliminate one of the KITS from my list?

UFO · **Posted:** Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:46 pm

dieselenthusiast wrote:

UFO wrote:

dieselenthusiast wrote:

crd liberty wrote:

http://www.evolutionbiodieselkits.com/

I also found this website: http://www.fuelmeister.com/products
Okay, I made my final decision today. Fist, I’m going the biodiesel route. Second, I’m probably going to end up buying an “already built” processor kit. Bottom line, I do not have enough time to hunt down parts, design my own biodiesel processor, and build it. I’d rather fork out the cash, buy a very efficient processor, and get busy making fuel. So, the plan is to spend the next few days researching biodiesel kits. Are there any other KIT recommendations?

DO NOT get a plastic processor. Either you don't heat your oil and get inferior biodiesel, or you heat it and cause a safety hazard. There are many options that use a water heater or a steel tank as the reactor.

So are you saying that I need to eliminate one of the KITS from my list?

Biopro is good, but both "Fool Meister" and the Evolution are plastic. There is a good thread referenced in the description about the Dynadroit, and many such discussions are posted at the biodiesel infopop site as well as Biodieselnow.com

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/ ... 063181/p/1
http://www.biodieselnow.com/forums/p/16 ... spx#123689

Just do your homework before you sink hard-earned dollars -- it's a real jungle.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:20 pm

UFO wrote:

it's a real jungle.

Thanks for the links..................So tell me about this jungle? You make it sound like a dangerous place. :shock:

UFO · **Posted:** Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:56 pm

dieselenthusiast wrote:

UFO wrote:

it's a real jungle.

Thanks for the links..................So tell me about this jungle? You make it sound like a dangerous place. :shock:

Lurk on both of those forums I linked. You will find numerous stories of mistakes, both on buying equipment and ruining batches of fuel, by folks that don't look before leaping. There are a number of not-so-honest equipment dealers out there, many of whom sell FuelMeister, which is notorious for having safety issues, not supporting or acknowleging those issues, and basic non-support for their products and product support. Indeed, some don't even make fuel, just peddle cheaply made equipment for top dollar.

Both infopop and biodieselnow have good informed followings and healthy discussions about the nuts and bolts of the equipment and making fuel. Take your time and educate yourself, make some test batches of fuel, start to look around for good, reliable oil sources, and only then sink money into equipment to make large batches. I've been at this for five years now; it's taken that long to finally get to the point where I make fuel good enough to put into the tank of my CRD. I started with an old Benz that fortunately doesn't care what I put into it, and continuously refined my processes and equipment until I can now make quality fuel in large amounts. I expect to expand my home-made processor this summer to 150 gallon batches so I can fuel my fleet and only have to make fuel every six weeks.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:48 pm

UFO wrote:

Both infopop and biodieselnow have good informed followings and healthy discussions about the nuts and bolts of the equipment and making fuel. Take your time and educate yourself, make some test batches of fuel, start to look around for good, reliable oil sources, and only then sink money into equipment to make large batches. I've been at this for five years now; it's taken that long to finally get to the point where I make fuel good enough to put into the tank of my CRD. I started with an old Benz that fortunately doesn't care what I put into it, and continuously refined my processes and equipment until I can now make quality fuel in large amounts. I expect to expand my home-made processor this summer to 150 gallon batches so I can fuel my fleet and only have to make fuel every six weeks.

I do appreciate the information, as a matter of fact, I will take fuelmeister off my list. If you were to buy a kit today, which kit would you buy?

UFO · **Posted:** Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:56 pm

I'd get a BioPro. It will make ASTM biodiesel with very little guidance and no titrating. Graydon Blair of utahbiodiesel is a BioPro dealer, has a significant presence on both those forums, and he will support it. I suspect other BioPro dealers will too, but I have dealt with Graydon and know him to be honest and supportive of biodiesel in general. He also knows how to make fuel.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:22 pm

UFO wrote:

I'd get a BioPro. It will make ASTM biodiesel with very little guidance and no titrating. Graydon Blair of utahbiodiesel is a BioPro dealer, has a significant presence on both those forums, and he will support it. I suspect other BioPro dealers will too, but I have dealt with Graydon and know him to be honest and supportive of biodiesel in general. He also knows how to make fuel.

Mrkake also recommended Graydon as being an excellent resource. We are planning to make a trip to Utah sometime this summer, so that might be a good time to meet up with Graydon if he has time or is willing to show us his setup. Hands on experience and talking with someone who has passion for biodiesel will definitely provide my wife with a little more ease before we dump funds into something she hasn’t seen or experienced. Looks like we have another “BioPro” advocate.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:27 pm

DarbyWalters wrote:

Google "Dr Pepper Biodiesel"

It is the easiest wnas cheapest way to give it a try. Just remember the useful way involves Methanol and Lye which must be handled with care. How ever you do it make sure you try to "recover" the Methanol and Water you used to recycle it...will save you money also. Also use Solar Power to remove water from the WVO before you start and after you have product (need to get water out after the washing step).

I would like to recycle as much as possible and use solar when applicable.

mrkake · **Posted:** Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:26 am

Graydon is a great guy and I doubt that you will find anyone more enthusiastic about making fuel. I have yet to actually purchase anything from him (but I will soon) and he is very good about offering sound advice. The BioPro is made entirely of stainless steel (including the mixer and all the plumbing) at over $8000 it's out of my price range. They make a 150 now that uses 40 gallons of WVO per batch (as opposed to 50 for the 190) and it is more hands on. And by that I mean that you actually have to manually drain the water after each wash cycle and you have to push the buttons like 5 times instead of twice :lol:

It also doesn't come with the dispensing nozzle and pump. That'll run you about another $400 or so and the 150 costs a little over $6000. I know that it sounds counter intuitive but you can make some great fuel with a home made appleseed set up. I fully agree with UFO. Take your time, lurk on the forums, ask questions, make contacts, find out where to get your supplies etc. You don't want to spend several thousand dollars on a system just to find out that methanol is difficult to acquire in your area. I have gone as far as to buy enough stuff to do titrations and have made a 1 liter batch just to see the process in action. Money is too hard to come by these days to rush into things. Like any hobby you can drop a bunch of change getting into it. You may want to check on legislation and enforcement in your area too (there have been rumors of fines being levied against people that did not report and pay taxes on the fuel that they made; although I have no first hand knowledge of such action). In Nevada it is legal to make 500 gallons per adult living in your household and there is little or no enforcement at this time.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:25 pm

[quote="mrkake"]Graydon is a great guy and I doubt that you will find anyone more enthusiastic about making fuel. I have yet to actually purchase anything from him (but I will soon) and he is very good about offering sound advice. The BioPro is made entirely of stainless steel (including the mixer and all the plumbing) at over $8000 it's out of my price range. They make a 150 now that uses 40 gallons of WVO per batch (as opposed to 50 for the 190) and it is more hands on. And by that I mean that you actually have to manually drain the water after each wash cycle and you have to push the buttons like 5 times instead of twice :lol:

It also doesn't come with the dispensing nozzle and pump. That'll run you about another $400 or so and the 150 costs a little over $6000. quote]

$6,000 - $8,000 dollars is a lot of money, but I think it would be very much worth it. :wink:

If my wife and I went back to New Mexico today, we both would have a $5,000 sign-on bonus per person just for taking the job. That would be $10,000 just for showing up, and that money could easily be applied towards a processor. We both have another year of graduate school, so we aren’t moving “yet.” I bring this up because we plan to move back to the mountains again, out in the boonies where we will have to drive a long way to get anywhere. Oh, I miss the days of solitude……Anyway, with the cost of diesel, the amount of traveling that we do, and pulling our RV, we easily spend $3,000 a year in fuel. Plus, “when used properly, the BioPro 190 can successfully produce Biodiesel that can pass the ASTM Standard for commercially produced Biodiesel in the United States. This means that technically the fuel made in it may qualify to be sold commercially.”

You get what you pay for. :wink:

If most of my driving vehicles are diesel, and my tractor is diesel, and I have a backup generator that is diesel, then the justification becomes more realistic. I talked to my wife about taking a biodiesel course this summer, and she said that she is willing to take the class with me if I take a cooking/sewing/fashion course with her. :shock:

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:33 pm

dieselenthusiast wrote:

I talked to my wife about taking a biodiesel course this summer, and she said that she is willing to take the class with me if I take a cooking/sewing/fashion course with her. :shock:

I dunno, is it really worth the trade?

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:44 pm

Sir Sam wrote:

dieselenthusiast wrote:

I talked to my wife about taking a biodiesel course this summer, and she said that she is willing to take the class with me if I take a cooking/sewing/fashion course with her. :shock:

I dunno, is it really worth the trade?

Oh, and she said the cooking class was over Chinese food, she knows I hate Chinese food! :twisted:

Thankfully she was joking…………… :lol:

dgeist · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:10 am

dieselenthusiast wrote:

Sir Sam wrote:

dieselenthusiast wrote:

I talked to my wife about taking a biodiesel course this summer, and she said that she is willing to take the class with me if I take a cooking/sewing/fashion course with her. :shock:

I dunno, is it really worth the trade?

Oh, and she said the cooking class was over Chinese food, she knows I hate Chinese food! :twisted:

Thankfully she was joking…………… :lol:

Don't sell the Chinese food short. I've heard that the waste oil from Asian food places tends to be a lot higher quality with fewer impurities than your average burger joint. At least go to empty out their grease trap... :wink:

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:19 am

dgeist wrote:

Don't sell the Chinese food short. I've heard that the waste oil from Asian food places tends to be a lot higher quality with fewer impurities than your average burger joint. At least go to empty out their grease trap... :wink:

Actually, I’ve been reading that selecting the right type of grease is important. Is pure organic peanut oil better than, let’s say, generic Partially Hydrogenated vegetable oil?

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:49 am

dieselenthusiast wrote:

dgeist wrote:

Don't sell the Chinese food short. I've heard that the waste oil from Asian food places tends to be a lot higher quality with fewer impurities than your average burger joint. At least go to empty out their grease trap... :wink:

Actually, I’ve been reading that selecting the right type of grease is important. Is pure organic peanut oil better than, let’s say, generic Partially Hydrogenated vegetable oil?

yes

UFO · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:42 am

dieselenthusiast wrote:

dgeist wrote:

Don't sell the Chinese food short. I've heard that the waste oil from Asian food places tends to be a lot higher quality with fewer impurities than your average burger joint. At least go to empty out their grease trap... :wink:

Actually, I’ve been reading that selecting the right type of grease is important. Is pure organic peanut oil better than, let’s say, generic Partially Hydrogenated vegetable oil?

No. Peanut oil sucks for biodiesel in this part of the country. It clouds in the mid-40s F. It makes great summer fuel. I've had great success with PH soy and PH canola. But it's true, Chinese fryer oil makes the best fuel. Mine is liquid soy that has consistently titrated less than 2 grams/liter of KOH for almost five years now, and that makes it very easy and forgiving to make. No water, just screen it into the processor, 2 water washes, passes 3/27 in 50 gallon batches.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:02 am

UFO wrote:

dieselenthusiast wrote:

dgeist wrote:

Don't sell the Chinese food short. I've heard that the waste oil from Asian food places tends to be a lot higher quality with fewer impurities than your average burger joint. At least go to empty out their grease trap... :wink:

Actually, I’ve been reading that selecting the right type of grease is important. Is pure organic peanut oil better than, let’s say, generic Partially Hydrogenated vegetable oil?

No. Peanut oil sucks for biodiesel in this part of the country. It clouds in the mid-40s F. It makes great summer fuel. I've had great success with PH soy and PH canola. But it's true, Chinese fryer oil makes the best fuel. Mine is liquid soy that has consistently titrated less than 2 grams/liter of KOH for almost five years now, and that makes it very easy and forgiving to make. No water, just screen it into the processor, 2 water washes, passes 3/27 in 50 gallon batches.

Where do you get liquid Soy?

UFO · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:12 am

dieselenthusiast wrote:

Where do you get liquid Soy?

That's the oil in which my favorite Chinese restaurant fries eggrolls and lemon chicken. Changed weekly.

mrkake · **Posted:** Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:44 pm

Asian restaurants do use good oil. The stuff that we use in the restaurants is pure canola that also titrates under 2 gm/lt of KOH. We don't have much issue with cold here in Vegas and my garage gets over 130 degrees in July and august so I won't need much heat for the processor :lol:

In reference to your previous post about selling to others. You want to be very careful with that. Most people that I have talked to won't do it just because of the liability issues. To do it legally you will need to get certified and licensed by the state that you are producing in (most states look the other way if you are brewing for you own use) and you will need to submit samples for testing on a regular basis. The tests are expensive (they have to do a gas chromatograph I believe). Alot of dealers and garages like to blame everything on running biodiesel. So, if you sell a tankful to someone and they have engine issues they may point a finger at you. The more vehicles that you are running on bio, the more cost effective it becomes. I saw a setup where the guy powered his bio diesel processor with a diesel generator running on biodiesel from the previous batch!

You do also need to consider your time, fuel and the energy involved in picking up the WVO. Before I bought the CRD, I had a guy that picked up from me who had built a suction collection tank mounted on a trailer. It held 330 gallons of WVO and would empty a 55 gallon drum in less than 5 minutes! It was a pretty sweet setup. If you are going to be living in the sticks (which I think sounds like Nirvana, but my wife would absolutely hate) you will want to get the most out of your collection trips. The guy that I was introduced to here has the restaurant put the oil back in the original 5 gallon containers and set it out back. It's one his way home and he just stops each day and grabs what they have out for him. No pumps or hoses needed.

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