SEGR/ORM Kit Builder's Thread

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:07 pm

fastRob wrote:

Should I be testing resistors or other parts?

My favorite tool is a framing hammer. Getting ready for this board assembly is a whole new challenge to me.

In reading through the thread the wire lengths can vary greatly depending upon the box placement. On the safe side how long should they be?
Thanks,
R

rob,

i didn't test anything, don't know why UFO is testing them.

4' or wire will let you almost put the box on your lap in the cabin.
err on the side of length you can always make it shorter.. i started
with 5'... if you start there then put the box where you want it... run
the wire and cut the excess off.

UFO · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:21 pm

05infernoCRDL wrote:

rob,

i didn't test anything, don't know why UFO is testing them.

I saw a potential issue and pursued it to root cause. I work as an engineer in real life and that's the way I work. I am building over 20 boxes for people and I don't want any potential issue migrating to over 20 others. Just common sense. I have started the builds, but I will still be in a postion to make sure they all work once my SEGR test with the first box ends this weekend.

cerich · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:14 pm

UFO wrote:

05infernoCRDL wrote:

rob,

i didn't test anything, don't know why UFO is testing them.

I saw a potential issue and pursued it to root cause. I work as an engineer in real life and that's the way I work. I am building over 20 boxes for people and I don't want any potential issue migrating to over 20 others. Just common sense. I have started the builds, but I will still be in a postion to make sure they all work once my SEGR test with the first box ends this weekend.

you ARE an engineer....I work in sales and what you describe would be torture for me and I LIKE playing with stuff.....

rubicon03 · **Joined:** Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:52 pm **Posts:** 28

LocoCRD wrote:

UFO wrote:

I built up a test box to dry run the latest SEGR kits and got some output measurements a bit outside of Turbo Tim's test procedure. The 4.0V measurement for my box (with the EGR signal high and the AFC signal low) is running in the 4.4V - 4.5V range. I realize this is not out of the range of the MAF input, if it really is a 5.0V signal, I'm just curious whether anyone has run a SEGR with such a mismatch between the input and output?

I'm pretty sure the cause is the 10k resistors. I've sampled a number of them and they are varying between 9.5k and 10k.

They shouldn't be a problem. 9.5k although dissappointing from digikey is still in the 5% resistor tolerance, in fact the resistors are the same ones as last time. I'll see if I have any from the last batch lying around to see if they vary as much. I have built up 2 kits here for a couple local guys and will hook one up to my Jeep tommorrow. I will report any CEL's, but I don't expect any.

Edit: FYI, I just measured the 10k's left over from last batch and they vary from 9.6k to 10.1k.

I'll wait to see what results you encounter with the hook up of the "new" build before I plug mine in . When I pm'ed my test results to you ,UFO, &Turbo Tim, I was questioning my assemblies that both test exactly the same. It restored my confidence to see you have the same voltage readings that I sent you. If it works as is, GREAT! If it needs a tweak just show me how and what to do. I just wasn't ready to plug and play with the readings i had. Thanks again you guys for latching on to this subject.
rubicon03

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:52 pm

UFO wrote:

05infernoCRDL wrote:

rob,

i didn't test anything, don't know why UFO is testing them.

I saw a potential issue and pursued it to root cause. I work as an engineer in real life and that's the way I work. I am building over 20 boxes for people and I don't want any potential issue migrating to over 20 others. Just common sense. I have started the builds, but I will still be in a postion to make sure they all work once my SEGR test with the first box ends this weekend.

i kinda figured something like that but i didn't want to say for sure
cause i didn't know what you did for a living. and you (having 20
boxes) have a greater chance for getting a bummed part.

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:31 pm

UFO the two i just built threw codes..

the one that i had checked was a P0402 which i guess is the EGR?

the situation and the driving was the same... initial drive about 2 miles
all good.. start up no light, during the 2 miles home the light came on.
no limp mode.

crd liberty · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:54 pm

05infernoCRDL wrote:

UFO the two i just built threw codes..

the one that i had checked was a P0402 which i guess is the EGR?

the situation and the driving was the same... initial drive about 2 miles
all good.. start up no light, during the 2 miles home the light came on.
no limp mode.

Trevor.
Did you plug the MAF back into it's housing?

fastRob · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:46 pm

Fiends,
I feel a little low on the resistance, you see I am just a little short circuited today.
The old lady re-fused me, don' know why, I just diode-ed.
Increased the voltage and the old board melted.
I wired her up to kill the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR), what a heat stinker.
She gave me code yellow.
That is why I am online with you guys.
We can work it out and turn the old Exhaust Gas Recirculator (EGR) off, no code.

Sorry, could not help it, please do not ban me. Will hardly ever do it again. Needed to lighten up the EGR.
R

crd liberty · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:51 pm

fastRob wrote:

Fiends,
I feel a little low on the resistance, you see I am just a little short circuited today.
The old lady re-fused me, don' know why, I just diode-ed.
Increased the voltage and the old board melted.
I wired her up to kill the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR), what a heat stinker.
She gave me code yellow.
That is why I am online with you guys.
We can work it out and turn the old Exhaust Gas Recirculator (EGR) off, no code.

Sorry, could not help it, please do not ban me. Will hardly ever do it again. Needed to lighten up the EGR.
R

Really nice, but what the f**** you talking about?
EGR off, no code :lol:

The rest of all that can't help with :evil:

fastRob · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:57 pm

These pieces are very stressful to build.
My hands are shaky, thinking about the soldering.
Any mistakes are painful and variances in the pieces could cause problems.
Was trying to lighten it up with a pun or 2.
These guys who put these kits together deserve a great deal of credit for helping the rest of us out.
Remember the line; "no good deed goes unpunished?"

R

crd liberty · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:03 pm

fastRob wrote:

These pieces are very stressful to build.
My hands are shaky, thinking about the soldering.
Any mistakes are painful and variances in the pieces could cause problems.
Was trying to lighten it up with a pun or 2.
These guys who put these kits together deserve a great deal of credit for helping the rest of us out.
Remember the line; "no good deed goes unpunished?"

R

Rob.
If you can recall the past, I did not solder my own. UFO soldered mine.
I shake too much for tedious stuff as this. Yea, I can do other things,
just not all that small stuff.
I envy you for trying. Everybody has to know their limitations.
Now back to the board, big guy and solder. Good luck.
Steve

MirageX · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:17 pm

Guys,

Thanks for the kit, and I don't want to whine about things not being right when you've all done this out of the goodness of your hearts. Thanks for your service to the CRD community!

Last weekend I spent some time carefully soldering up the SEGR, and carefully splicing this into my wife's CRD. This morning driving the wife and kids to appointments I noticed that we are getting a CEL. My code scanner says PO102--which I believe indicates low MAP voltage.

I've spent the afternoon going back through my wiring harness on the CRD and looking for bad solder connections on the board.

For now, I've installed the bypass plug and cleared the codes. They didn't return in an hour's driving, and for now I'm back to simply unplugging the MAF.

I suppose the first step for me is to look at what has been referred to as "Turbo Tim's test procedure." Can somebody direct me to this? This board's search capabilities are limited and there are SO many posts!

Meanwhile, I'm probably going to start checking those resistor values with my multimeter.

Thanks!

MirageX

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:36 pm

mirage.. my initial install i mixed up the MAF wires... they are installed
in the opposite direction of the rest of them.... 4 and 5 do in the ECU
to component direction... as well as 7 and 8... however the 1 and 2
go component to ecu.... chech that ... if they are crossed you will
get a MAF code.

CRD Liberty... i am testing these in my jeep that is wired correctly and
been run with a SEGR for a bit... i opened one of the new ones back up
and one of the wires was out... i forgot to solder all the pons in the box...
so once that CEL goes off i'll hook em back up and see if the soldering
was the problem... those pins are HARD to get out

crd liberty · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:36 pm

MirageX wrote:

Guys,

Thanks for the kit, and I don't want to whine about things not being right when you've all done this out of the goodness of your hearts. Thanks for your service to the CRD community!

Last weekend I spent some time carefully soldering up the SEGR, and carefully splicing this into my wife's CRD. This morning driving the wife and kids to appointments I noticed that we are getting a CEL. My code scanner says PO102--which I believe indicates low MAP voltage.

I've spent the afternoon going back through my wiring harness on the CRD and looking for bad solder connections on the board.

For now, I've installed the bypass plug and cleared the codes. They didn't return in an hour's driving, and for now I'm back to simply unplugging the MAF.

I suppose the first step for me is to look at what has been referred to as "Turbo Tim's test procedure." Can somebody direct me to this? This board's search capabilities are limited and there are SO many posts!

Meanwhile, I'm probably going to start checking those resistor values with my multimeter.

Thanks!

MirageX

Hi MirageX
Do you have any pictures or documentation of your in harness wiring?
What documentation did you use to wire into the harness? In the past
others have reversed some of the wires, is all I am asking?
Steve

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:43 pm

ha steve beat ya to telling him that i crossed wires :lol:

MirageX · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:16 pm

Thanks for the speedy responses, but I just checked them again.

I've removed the plug/SEGR from the harness and confirmed the following:

Pin 2 to C1-85
Pin 4 to C1-90
Pin 7 to C1-68

If the schematic is backwards, that's another type of problem.

The only thing that I've done that didn't match the directions that came with the kit was the "park neutral sense." I didn't find a pin/wire in the connector in C1 41 (it says T41), but did some surfing on this forum to find that it would be connected to C2 17.

So--does anybody have a link to a bench testing procedure?

Thanks!

MirageX

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:29 pm

mirage theonly reason i am pushing the wiring backwards is i was 90% sure that it
was correct cause i checked and rechecked... well i was wrong..

your post shows that they are going to the correct wires but are they in the correct
direction on those wires?

should look like this and check to make sure please...
MAF --- pin 1 (+) -- segr-- pin 2(-) --- ECU
ECU --- pin 4 (+)-- segr--- pin 5 (-)--- EGR
ECU --- pin 7 (+)--- segr--- pin 8(-) --- AFC

the first one is the one that i got the direction confused.. if you are using a
positive negative kind of wiring (i.e. blue(+) blu/wht (-)) the pin 1 and 2 are
opposite of the rest.. a very small detail that is easy to miss.

UFO · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:31 pm

For the quick bench test that I use you need a 12V supply that will deliver at least 0.5A, and you will need a resistor divider using (3) 1k resistors wired in series to tap off a 4V value. The test is as follows:

Connect 12V to pin 3.
Connect ground to pins 6 and 7.
Connect 4V signal to pin 1.

With this configuration, you should get your 4V back out on pin 2.
Remove the ground from pin 7 and the output on 2 will drop to approximately 3V.
Replace the ground on pin 7, then ground pin 4 (this will pull the current), and the output will drop to 2.4V.

But with the variety of resistors, both the 10k and the 51k, these measured values can be off by 0.4V or more.

LocoCRD · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:51 pm

Ok fellas, I just made a run to the parts store and back with one of the new SEGR's I built for a friend. No Codes yet. I am waiting for my kids to get home from practice and then we'll head to the Pizza place with the 2nd new SEGR hooked up. I will report back with the details.

MirageX · **Posted:** Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:07 pm

UFO,

Thanks for the help. I've found a 12V AC adapter in my junk bin, and rigged up a bench test with test leads going every direction.

I don't have any resistors laying around (I'm an Aero/Astro--no self-respecting EE would find himself in this situation), but was able to combine 3 AA batteries (poor kids stuck standing there holding batteries in series for me!). They were kind of fresh, though (the batteries--not the kids), and I got almost 5V out of them...

Circuit behavior seems to be as expected, given that my input is wrong. 5V, 4.24V, 2.80V

Again, circuit behavior seemed reasonable when I used only two cells (3.2V), though I didn't record those values.

I'll grab some resistors on my way home from work tomorrow, and try this again with a higher level of accuracy.

My wife will be OK, for now, using the bypass plug and an unplugged MAF.

Should we also expect some differences in real-world operation because automtive "12V" circuits actually operate at around 14V?

Does anybody know how far off the voltage values would have to be (low or high) to set off a CEL?

Thanks!

Mark

MirageX

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