The plant where I work uses thousands of gallons of methanol per day for clean-ups of our kettle systems. My dept. is presently during the engineering work to retrofit one of our units to reclaim the used methanol. They estimate that is with save us at least $100,000 per month plus save 1 operator per shift from being cut.

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08 Elantra SE daily driver
2001 F-250 powerstroke

dieselenthusiast, this is the type of processor I was warning against. It's plastic, so it can't handle the heat, and it's plumbed with PVC, which will leak after a while. The methoxide mixing is dangerous as it's not sealed; if you use NaOH it's virtually impossible to get it all dissolved in that mixer.

The Biopro is expensive, but it's the only one that is worth it. Otherwise, there is manual involvement with the process, while it's not hard, it takes time. Time vs. money. Not much balance in this industry yet.

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'05 Liberty CRD B100, SEGR - SOLD

'01 Beetle TDi B100, EGR delete
'83 Mercedes 240D B100, no EGR

--- SEGR Builder ---

I've seen the BioPro in action, and it's IMPRESSIVE.

You literally put the ingrediants in their respective hoppers, and press a button. Everything happens automatically. It even has a pump on it to fill your vehicle with. You can plumb in a drain line and have it drain into the sewer or septic tank. The chemicals are neutralized in the process, so there is no pollution danger (as least that's what I was told).

You don't have to have scores of barrels and pumps and such. Just the BioPro. You need whatever container you use to collect your used oil, and that's it. Pump it in to the BioPro, fill the methanol and catalyst hoppers, then added the acid to the oil. Push the button and walk away.

I believe the only manual thing you have to do is drain off the glycerine, but it all settles to the bottom and there is a valve down their to drain it.

It's impressive. It's VERY well built. Overbuilt I'd say. It's industrial quality. If it were half the price, I'd own one TODAY!

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Chad Hargis
Nashville, TN
2008 Grand Cherokee CRD
2005 Liberty CRD *SOLD*

Automation is impressive, especially when it does something that the observer can't do by hand. That's the trade-off. If your only goal is to produce fuel as consistently as possible, buy an automated system and spread out the cost over the long term. If you want the learning experience and the monetary savings, then build one. There's no difference in the chemistry involved allowing a biopro to make "better" fuel. You just have to have a steady hand, accurate measuring vessels, a critical mind to watch out for unexpected results, and patience, lots of patience.

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2005 Silver CRD Limited
245/75R16 GoodYear Duratracs
Fumoto drain | ProVent CCV Filter
Stanadyne FM100 filter | Cummins fuel pump
GDE Eco | SEGR | BoulderBars | FrankenLift | Frankenskids

No, it will not meet ASTM specs if good oil is not used and you do not titrate. But neither will the Biopro if you dont titrate and use low ffa oil. The biopro uses a two stage acid base process to convert the oil. If you do not titrate EVERY batch of oil you will not have full conversion and thus not have ASTM spec fuel. The Biopro uses a guestimate with the reactants based on a neutrally titrating oil such as NEW oil. I don't know about you but I don't want to buy new oil for $3 a gallon then spend another $ or more when I could just buy D2 for the same price.

Contrary to UFO's statement about heat, I can attest that it will handle temperatures of up to 190f without melting or even deforming. Since you will never be able to produce BD at a temp greater than 160 it will never overheat.

The PVC plumbing on my unit has held up to production for two years and never have I had any leaks at all except when I did not mix my methoxide long enough and the transfer pipe was left full oh KOH granules for a week. 1 hour and $10 to fix that and away it went again.

The Biopro has timers on it which allow you to switch it on and walk away until you have to start the next stage of processing, Just like the $6 timer on mine. Contrary to what they would like purchasers to think, they have the same number of steps to perform as the Ebay reactor, but they do have shinny buttons.

The makers claim that the reactant chambers are sealed for safety, Yeah the loading orifices are sealed but the chambers are vented to the air just like every other reactor. They still have to be used in a very well ventilated area.

The Biopro is an excellently put together and pretty piece of equipment, but it cant do magic. The chemistry is the same as all other processors use, the time invested is the same, the money is ridiculous. For most home brewers the point of doing it is to save money, $8000 will take a LONG time to recoup.

I'm not trying to plug the units sold on ebay or say that the Biopro is not very well built. I don't even approve of the crazy price of the poly ones sold on ebay. No one should tell you what to buy with your hard earned money, but I do think that you would benefit from some more research on processors, hopefully you won't be misled by someone who just wants to cash in on the Biofuel wave.

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Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

^^^ Actually the Biopro is less dependant on oil quality. It uses the acid/base process, so it treats every batch of oil, bad or good, with acid. After the acid process, all oil will titrate the same, so that the base process can use a fixed amount of catalyst.

Your experience with PVC runs contrary to many others who have explained how it leaks in the infopop forum. I am much happier with my processor knowing the black steel pipe is holding in my reactants. And building it myself saved a lot of money.

dieselenthusiast, if you are considering something more hands-on than a Biopro, research Appleseed processors, the type I modeled mine after. The best site for those is http://biodieselcommunity.org

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'05 Liberty CRD B100, SEGR - SOLD

'01 Beetle TDi B100, EGR delete
'83 Mercedes 240D B100, no EGR

--- SEGR Builder ---

I have no experience with any of the processors, but I've seen the BioPro in action. I've seen the results.

The guy who owned it said he's put the worst oil he could find in it and it produced excellent fuel. He showed me a side by side comparison of fuel made with "good" oil and fuel made with "bad" oil. They looked identical.

He really liked the BioPro, and used it as his primary processor since is "other" processor was something on the order of 200 gallons or so. He collected oil from a local snack chip manufacturer. He got HUNDREDS of gallons at a time and had a barn full of oil. It was simply easier to move a small amount of oil into the BioPro and press a button than it was to titate the oil, manually mix the chemicals, and fool with pumping the fuel between chambers, etc.

The biopro does it all in one chamber. Just load it, push a button, and walk away.

If I had a group of people willing to split the cost of one, we'd all drive cheap. Then BioPro will make, I think, 40 gallons every 24 hours or so. I only use about 20 gallons a week. So if you kept that sucker going, there is no reason why you couldn't form a co-op where people brought WVO in and traded it (and a small fee) for biodiesel.

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Chad Hargis
Nashville, TN
2008 Grand Cherokee CRD
2005 Liberty CRD *SOLD*

Excellent point about the Biopro Chad; the price and payoff time is steep for a single user, but you can get a mini-coop amongst friends and get some good use out of it without the learning curve of making fuel. That's a bonus, as it's really about the time involved -- I would not consider making fuel for sale as my time is worth much more. But having someone come over and use it -- that's the ticket.

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'05 Liberty CRD B100, SEGR - SOLD

'01 Beetle TDi B100, EGR delete
'83 Mercedes 240D B100, no EGR

--- SEGR Builder ---

Same here.

I don't have the space to put a big processor in either. The biopro takes up about 2sq/ft of space. No barrels, no wash tanks, no reaction tank, nothing but a nice looking stainless steel unit with a button panel and some lights on it.

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Chad Hargis
Nashville, TN
2008 Grand Cherokee CRD
2005 Liberty CRD *SOLD*

My point above, about the chemistry being the same with all processors is that you can and should use the acid base process with all processors, Biopro did not invent it. And an acid base reaction while less sensitive to oil quality should still have the acid titrated to the the initial PH. Or else why does Biopro sell a titration kit specifically for their unit?

Another misconception which for some reason is still being pushed even by those who have supposedly seen them in action, is that the Biopro is a one step process. It is not. All of the chemical tanks have to be filled manually before use, same as all other processors (there are four chambers not one Chad). One thing that the Biopro does nicely though is automatically open the valve between the methoxide tank and the main reactor (for a difference of 7 Grand I can turn my own ball valve between tanks). The acid has to be added manually for each batch, same as all other processors. At the end of the 24 hour reaction time the glycerin has to be manually drained into a bucket or whatever, same as all other processors. The machine then has to be reset, hooked up to a water supply (a 55 gallon barrel, not a pressurized city water supply) and then and the wash cycle must be started, same as all other processors except other models can use a pressurized supply. I can't remember from watching it in action if the Biopro automatically drains the wash water or if it must be drained manually. even if it does, for 7 grand I can turn my own valve thank you. The timers in the machine set the dryer for a specific time, the same as the six dollar timer on my old plastic unit. The filling hose must then be connected to the outlet on the bottom and then you can fill your car. most ebay processors have the filling hose already attached.

Bottom line is that the Biopro is a very pretty, durable and obviously better built unit, but using it is not a matter of simply pushing a button and walking away. It is nearly as much if not equally as much work as all other processors out there, and the fuel quality is identical to the fuel which comes out the cheapest Appleseed processor out there when the same sloppy chemistry is used.

Even if the (comparatively) cheap plastic processors only lasted for one year apiece you would still stay ahead of the $ game which is the whole point of homebrewing.

My last post on the Biopro topic.

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Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

It is not necessary to use the acid part of the process on good oil. The acid process will restore high titrating oil to a more moderate ph, approximately 4-5. But lightly used oil, like mine, titrates at 1-2. So if one can depend on that, why complicate the process with acid?

And if you have a "cheap" plastic processor that only lasts a year, that's asking for a disaster. Why not buy or build a steel one for even less that will last indefinitely?

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'05 Liberty CRD B100, SEGR - SOLD

'01 Beetle TDi B100, EGR delete
'83 Mercedes 240D B100, no EGR

--- SEGR Builder ---

Although the one year scenario was exaggerated to make a point, that is exactly why I no longer use the Ebay processor. My latest and greatest is a 275 gal processor with 275 gal meth removal tank, which my BD partner and I have designed and is automated down to three individual cycles apart from titrating. Unfortunately for me I had to leave it behind in Tennessee when I moved last month. This is overkill for most people though. That is why I think that someone just starting off homebrewing should start with one of the smaller and cheaper units or build an Appleseed. If someone is just starting out in the hobby I don't think that an 8000 dollar unit is a wise investment, but it is a free country.

The advantage of using an acid base process even with low titrating oil is higher yield, but it should still be titrated and is just as sensitive to water.

Yeah, yeah, I know I posted about it again.

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Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

I contacted Jeremy Pinegar who owns and builds the “All American Biodiesel” kits. http://www.allamericanbiofuels.com/
Jeremy is a really nice guy, very informative, and has built dozens of biodiesel kits. According to Jeremy, he has built a very affordable and very efficient kit that has been successful and popular among many biodiesel makers. I basically asked him the $8,000 dollar question…………………..Jeremy says that the BioPro, hands down, is the best processor on the market today. He said that the BioPro can consistently make good batches and in a timely fashion. Jeremy didn’t have one bad thing to say about the BioPro. Naturally, he is very pleased with his Kit. He says that his kit is capable of making very good biodiesel. On the flip-side, there is more risk for human error as compared to the BioPro. Even though he can consistently make good quality fuel, he still feels that it is necessary to test every batch. Jeremy also said that he has never tested any of his batches to ASTM standards, and based on what he was saying, it’s probably because he knows his batches will not meet ASTM standards. From my research, the only problem with the BioPro is the price. Not everyone can afford nor does everyone want to pay premium dollar for the BioPro. Other than the price, I’m not sure if anyone can argue that the BioPro isn’t the best processor on the market today. And depending on how much you plan to use biodiesel, the payoff for the initial cost of the equipment will depend on you. With the current price of diesel fuel, $8,000 dollars for the BioPro is very much worth looking at for those who can keep the machine hard at work. When we lived in New Mexico, we easily averaged $500 dollars a month on fuel spending. That’s $6,000 dollars a year just on diesel fuel alone. In this case scenario, I would need something like the BioPro just to balance my supply and demand. I also would have to add a transfer tank to my truck so I could carry biofuel on long trips allowing me to pass up fuel stations. Even if it took 6 years for the BioPro to pay for itself, I think it would be worth my time and invested interest due to environmental causes and the sake of running a better quality fuel in my engine. Being Green is a way of life. My Conclusion: Any kit will make fuel, however, it‘s the quality of the kit and the consistency of the caregiver that will determine the quality of fuel. Buy or build a processor that fits your needs. We’re all wanting to make biodiesel, and that is the main point of interest we‘ve all come to respect.

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2015 Ram Ecodiesel/Big Horn/4x4/Quad Cab
2016 Arctic Fox 22G/Onboard 2500 LP Cummins Onan Generator/160 Watt Solar Panel

I took the road less traveled. Now I'm LOST.

I haven't been able to stick with a single processor for too long. The first one I built only made 25 gallons at a time. Driving 250 miles a week I had to make fuel twice a month -- it was good practice, but I got tired of it after a year. I'm still using my second processor, it makes 50 gallons at a time, but now that my wife is driving another 25mpg diesel, I'm back to brewing twice a month. I'm building my third this year, still water heater based, and it should be able to make at least 120 gallons at a time. The first processor cost less than $500, my second was less as I kept the wash tank and all the pumps and plumbing. Since my third is really an expansion of the second, it will probably cost me another $400, but that's not bad for the capacity and durability the Appleseeds offer.

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'05 Liberty CRD B100, SEGR - SOLD

'01 Beetle TDi B100, EGR delete
'83 Mercedes 240D B100, no EGR

--- SEGR Builder ---

The co-op route is worth considering as a way to make the cost of something like the bio-pro less painful. Out here in Oregon, nearly every major city now has a bio-diesel co-op. Unfortunately, the Portland one has had to close to new members due to the overwhelming interest in biodiesel being sparked by fuel prices.

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2006 Liberty CRD Limited
Mopar engine, transmission, transfer case skids
245/70/16 Michelin Latitude X-Ice (winter)
235/75/16 Firestone Destination ATs (summer)
Thule roof rack, cargo box
V6 airbox mod
Flowmaster 50 2.5 inch muffler
Edge EZ module (set for fuel economy)
SEGR
TDIWagonGuy CCV filter
B99 (summer), B20 (winter)

I have contacted the nearest BioPro dealer (Lincoln, NE) and have made my appointment to observe the BioPro in action. This will be a great time to learn more about the BioPro. In addition, the dealer said he would fill my Dodge Cummins up with Biodiesel for the trip home. Maybe I should go ahead and install the 40 gallon transfer flow tank before I go.

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2015 Ram Ecodiesel/Big Horn/4x4/Quad Cab
2016 Arctic Fox 22G/Onboard 2500 LP Cummins Onan Generator/160 Watt Solar Panel

I took the road less traveled. Now I'm LOST.

Hey, I talked to the Sonic owner tonight and he’s more than willing to filter and save the grease for me. However, he refers to his grease as shortening. Is this what I want for biodiesel?

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2015 Ram Ecodiesel/Big Horn/4x4/Quad Cab
2016 Arctic Fox 22G/Onboard 2500 LP Cummins Onan Generator/160 Watt Solar Panel

I took the road less traveled. Now I'm LOST.

I'd recommend not using raw material that doesn't pour at 50F or more.. the stiff grease tends to gel sooner after conversion to biodiesel. If it's like crisco, I'd pass.

There are some very good forums dedicated to biodiesel - I recommend hooking up with one or two and "do your time" learning before the launch.

Good luck!

Mark
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2005 Liberty CRD
2004.5 Cummins 5.9L TD, F1s, NV5600 6-speed in a '93 GMC Suburban

Thanks.............. I'll have to check into it more. At one point during our conversation he did refer to his grease as liquid shortening..........but that might be due to the fact that the hard shortening was heated and poured into the containers. I have lots to learn and not enough time.

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2015 Ram Ecodiesel/Big Horn/4x4/Quad Cab
2016 Arctic Fox 22G/Onboard 2500 LP Cummins Onan Generator/160 Watt Solar Panel

I took the road less traveled. Now I'm LOST.

Trans fat was invented to be a bio-candle wax. A poor man's way to detect trans fat is by the melting temperature (above 98.6f). If you don't want to do a bunch of scientific testing, this field test will work good enough.
Eat some Sonic French Fries, if you have a greasy taste in your mouth that requires soda pop to get rid of it, you have trans fat. If Iced Tea or fruit juice does the trick, you got veggie oil. The good news is that trans fat is being phased out of our food supply. I have noticed Burger King fries pass the trans fat free field test to back up their advertising. McDonald's is still spotty.

Due to the higher melting point, trans fat based biodiesel would have a higher cloud point than regular biodiesel made from normal cooking oil.

Most Trans fat consumed by humans goes through us and gunks up sewer lines as the thiner vegetable oils and animal fat rinses out of the trans fat infested grease. When storms hit, the chunks break off and they float on top of the sewage stream providing a nuisance to say the least. Any metal that comes in contact with trans fat has to be ground off before welding or the carbon will weaken the weld and it will often fail.
With this in mind, don't cheat the decanting part of your process, you don't want that trans fat junk in you filter.

Good Luck,

Steve

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2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle