Suncoast T/C, Pump, Cooler and Shift Kit Install

fastRob · **Posted:** Mon May 19, 2008 1:44 pm

I read GMCTD's installation of the Suncoast torque converter.
We understand that keeping the transfer case and cross member attached to the tranny will keep it steady.
Any other tips?
Get the filters and 12 quarts of the magic tranny fluid.
What else? Is this beyond the reach of a backyard hack and like minded associates?

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Mon May 19, 2008 1:56 pm

fastRob wrote:

I read GMCTD's installation of the Suncoast torque converter.
We understand that keeping the transfer case and cross member attached to the tranny will keep it steady.
Any other tips?
Get the filters and 12 quarts of the magic tranny fluid.
What else? Is this beyond the reach of a backyard hack and like minded associates?

I looked at doing mine in the future and think draining the fluid first then removing the filters and reinstall the pan with a few bolts before removing the transmission. Then you can remove the pump without bothering removing from the transmission jack. I don't think the crossmember has to be in place but I would chain the transmission real good to the jack.

fastRob · **Posted:** Mon May 19, 2008 5:57 pm

Our '06 transmissions do not need the pumps removed unless there is a problem, right?

My concern is flushing the system.

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Mon May 19, 2008 8:32 pm

Talking with local dealer service manager, the old front pump will usually cause problems if not replaced. He mention internal seals not sealing the same on new torque converter as the old. I think a wear and alignment is also an issue.

fastRob · **Posted:** Mon May 19, 2008 9:41 pm

Ok, transmission issues, none noted except shifting stutters.
Problems in the '05 year were corrected with updates to pump and transmission in '06 model.
Wear issues should be investigated, what do you know about that?

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Mon May 19, 2008 9:53 pm

fastRob wrote:

Problems in the '05 year were corrected with updates to pump and transmission in '06 model.

Nope. 06 had the same pump from the factory as the 05. Many of the 06 models were pre-neutered with F37 type programming. Software patch on a hardware problem.

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

My 06 had the old pump. I took it in for F37 specifically for the new pump, otherwise I would have skipped it.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue May 20, 2008 7:13 am

fastRob wrote:

Problems in the '05 year were corrected with updates to pump and transmission in '06 model.

Rob.

Actually the improved transmission pump and cover came out after 06 production had stopped, it started on 07 models

So no US CRD's came with the new pump and cover :lol:

Only those CRD's that had a noise the technition could hear got the new pump and front cover with F37

According to something I recently read hear the original torque converters that were in all 05's and 06 models before 11/05 had a "cushion" thing who's rivits would loosen and fall out. They were replaced by the older style without the cushion.

007husky · **Posted:** Tue May 20, 2008 11:59 am

Im looking to do this too !

so :

-suncoast TC
-suncoast shift kit
-new pump ? (how hard is to change the pump?) is this REALLY necessary?
-new cover ?
-new tran fluid

any other parts ?

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Tue May 20, 2008 3:16 pm

since you're pulling it apart - there are 2 filters - you should probably change them.
and if you're going to pull a trailer at some point - you might want to add a tranny cooler - before you do the flush,refill

targets of opportunity - not requirements.

(I did the new pump - it comes with the cover - I didn't want to have to do it again)

fastRob · **Posted:** Tue May 20, 2008 10:27 pm

ATXKJ wrote:

since you're pulling it apart - there are 2 filters - you should probably change them.
and if you're going to pull a trailer at some point - you might want to add a tranny cooler - before you do the flush,refill

targets of opportunity - not requirements.

(I did the new pump - it comes with the cover - I didn't want to have to do it again)

Ok, how many miles did you have on it? Was it covered under warranty?
How much did it cost for the tranny cooler, other parts?
Did you do it yourself?

fastRob · **Posted:** Wed May 21, 2008 3:31 pm

And that's why your 545 may have a 6 on the oem model # tag - it is really a 6-speed transmission, with the 2nd and 2nd prime ratios.

This has all been said before, but I'll nail it all up in one spot for your viewing pleasure - what is needed for upgraded heavy-duty transmission service is the Suncoast torque convertor, the Transgo shiftkit, and an auxilliary cooler, as from Derale, with t-stat controlled cooling fan - also available for you northern guys is a t-stat controlled valve to bypass the external cooler in below 30deg winter temps

The t\c is the greatest source of heat when impeller rpm exceeds turbine rpm, which is anytime the TCC is unlocked - that's the 'moan' you hear as you attempt to increase vehicle speed and engine rpm increases while vehicle speed slowly wallows upward: the t\c clutch has unlocked and the hydraulic coupling is 'slipping' badly - this is addressed by lowering the 'stall' speed, or 'slip', by increasing the vane angles in the impeller and the turbine, or\and increasing the diameter and depth of the impeller and turbine - brazing the vanes also reduces slip by stabilizing the vane blades and maintaining the dimension between the vanes and the housing, thereby reducing leakage.
The oem flexible plastic stator is replaced with a rigid aluminum unit with steel-cage sprag, and the various plastic bearings are replaced with Timken needle bearings
The TCC clutch gets improved friction surfaces and increased surface area (some vendors mention Kevlar), improved apply-piston seals and enlarged passages which improve lockup and reduce interval between apply command and actual lockup, and release command to total release.
A "billet" housing cover reduces housing flex and resultant clutch drive-surface flex, which reduces slip during lockup.

Shifting interval is next greatest source of heat, where the valve-body accumulators are 'programmed' to increase the delay out of the current range and into the next range - this isn't even good for the clutch friction surfaces, so the programmed-in slip generates much additional heat - you can also do something about this by installing a shift kit.
The TCM controls the shifted range: 1-2-2'-3-4-5, but has nothing to do with this aspect of shifting - this 'programming' is done in the valve body by the mechanical engineers, using soft springs, small orifices, leaks, and other sneaky tricks of the trade, all designed to protect the transmission during the warranty period - any good shift kit 'reprograms' the valve body by increasing and\or decreasing spring tension, opening up orifice diameters, using improved sealing ring compounds, etc - result is firm, quick shifts, reducing heat.

Transmision cooler capacity - size and location - is also responsible for added heat by not providing adequate heat exchanger surface area, or by placing the cooler in a previously heated area, such as the engine coolant radiator, or in combination with other air-over heat-exchanger.
B&M, DeRale, Hayden, and many others offer external auxilliary transmission coolers you can install yourself - as the little Jeep is slightly taxed for available real estate, an auxilliary cooler module with built-in cooling fan becomes very attractive, in spite of the increased cost - these often can be 'self-engineered' for way less than the commercially available models

So, there you have it in a nutshell - tho, a further word about shift kits is necessary, B4 I get off my soapbox

I've been doing this stuff many years across two centuries, racking up lots of experience with all systems automotive, incl automatic transmissions, torque convertors, and shift kit improvements.
Here's a little tip fer ya that still has me flabbergasted: Transgo has always offered a basic shift kit with minimal items to effect a basic upgrade, functional but basic - for those with enhanced sense of thrill and heavier right foot, they offered a transmission reprogramming kit, with all sorts of extra goodies intended for really hi-performance service, naturally more expensive with the pre-tuned valve-body separator plate and other required hard parts.
For your CRD, the Transgo SK45RFE shift improver kit has the prerequisite springs, rings, o-rings, and thicker accumulator cover plate to improve shift quality, and is very reasonable in price at around 45bucks.
The Transgo 45RFE-HD2 Reprogramming kit is a stunner, tho, at greater than twice the price, with only addition of 1@ $0.10 1/2watt carbon film resistor and 2 additional servo springs - all at around 109bucks - bummer, impo.

Fortunately, guys'n'gals, relief is at hand - ya see, Suncoast not only offers the greatly improved torque convertor solution - the 545RFE-CRD-1 at ~700bucks - but also the Transgo 45RFE-HD2 reprogramming kit at 65bucks, only twenny bucks more than the SK45 basic kit - both kits fit the 545RFE\645RFE trans in your beloved CRD, as well as the 45RFE version in the lesser Jeeps.

Gotta love Ron and Mrs Joe and the guys'n'gals at Suncoast.

So, there ya have it, grasshoppers - three paths to save and improve your transmission and reclaim that great Jeep driving experience:

new torque convertor
shift kit
auxilliary fan-over cooler

Adding a trans temperature guage to your pod certainly couldn't hurt, either.

Tell 'em you heard it on L.O.S.T. KJ forums, CRD division......................

_________________
96 Dodge 3500 CTD
If it's a Diesel thing, I do understand....
#2 son's '05 KJ CRD 4wd, 53kmi;
EDGE Trail; SGII; SEGR;
Provent; Magnaflow ss;
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Suncoast T\C, Transgo
'06 Cummins lift pump module, filter manager
Trail (and now Stream) rated
Four in a row makes it go

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Wed May 21, 2008 5:52 pm

fastRob wrote:

Ok, how many miles did you have on it? Was it covered under warranty?
How much did it cost for the tranny cooler, other parts?
Did you do it yourself?

around 25K
No - I was mad about the F37 and this helped a little
Cooler was cheap ~$50 - other parts ~$1000 (700 for TC, 300 for pump)
No - Local Jeep speciality shop

Uffe · **Posted:** Thu May 22, 2008 2:23 am

gmctd mentions bad performance of the transmission cooler, by placing the cooling where the radiator is.

When I read the post, the section describing the cooler gives an impression that the cooler is shared with the radiator from reading his post, but in fact the transmission has its own cooler (on a CRD) which is slapped in front of the radiator of the engine (but behind the A/C condenser).

I just wanted to specify that for the CRD there is a dedicated transmission cooler. I also acknowledge that gmctd did not limit his speech to the nation to only concern the KJ CRDs but also covered other vehicles using the same automatic transmission (or derivatives, grandfathers, and friends of said transmission). Of these vehicles I have no knowledge but considering this is gmctd we're talking about, he might just be spot on with those

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Thu May 22, 2008 2:26 am

Uffe your up early no?

Uffe · **Posted:** Thu May 22, 2008 2:28 am

Yeah a bit early. Couldn't sleep because I wanted to drive the Skoda to work. Just love that TDI engine, it feels way too big for the little car - exactly how I like it!

It reminds me of the CRD, except for the shuddering at start-up which is worse on the Skoda. Darn old TDI

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu May 22, 2008 7:41 am

Could also give the impression that it is shared with other air-over heat-exchanger, such as the charge-air cooler, of which the KJ got one, and is shared........................

CATCRD · **Posted:** Fri May 23, 2008 10:04 pm

fastRob wrote:

So, there ya have it, grasshoppers - three paths to save and improve your transmission and reclaim that great Jeep driving experience:

new torque convertor
shift kit
auxilliary fan-over cooler

Adding a trans temperature guage to your pod certainly couldn't hurt, either.

How about the updated pump assembly, if the CRD is sans F37? Recommend tossing one in with the Suncoast?

gmctd · **Posted:** Sun May 25, 2008 12:12 am

Yes - altho the pump itself is identical, the sealing configuration was modified for reliability, from 3 seals to 2 seals - if somehow the latest pump has been previously installed, then you're good to go...................

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sun May 25, 2008 1:43 pm

New design pump is the same one that goes into the 68RE behind a Dodge Cummins - only difference is the seals and cover. If it's stout enough to put behind a Cummins.....

Both my local tranny god and Ron Wolverton felt that the new design pump was enough of an improvement over the old design to warrant spending the bucks on it and swapping it out if the opportunity presented itself.

At least on U.S. versions, the factory tranny cooler is actually a combo unit that is half tranny cooler and half A/C condenser - and not up to the job of doing both in hot weather and hard driving. An aux tranny cooler will give you two benefits - cooler tranny fluid and a happy tranny, plus colder A/C output and happy occupants! :wink:

Suncoast T/C, Pump, Cooler and Shift Kit Install

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