CRD Neutered!!!

Billua · **Joined:** Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 64

Yep, it happened. The "It" is the F-37 Recall

First, we have done several mods to the Libby to improve things. Transgo shift kit, Afe air filter, airbox mod, etc.

The thing had been running awesome! The Transgo shift kit made a night and day difference.

What happened was that the Libby had an inter cooler hose clamp come loose and a hose popped off. Now, we didn't know that's what happened, or I would have fixed it myself. But, I was not home, wifey had it towed to our local dealer.

Disclaimer: This dealer is excellent and they have always taken care of us and the Libby has always been fixed the first time when we have taken it in. Plus, they overlook the obvious mods...

So, the Libby is in, I call and ask them for an update, blown turbo, split intercooler hose etc??. They tell me about the hose clamp and then say it will be ready tomorrow, they are doing the transmission recall....Transmission recall? Schit!!!

Sure enough, F-37 and the associated derate of the engine via ECM Reflash.

Impressions, the shift points seem little changed. This may be due to the Transgo hardware. The engine has minimally noticeable less torque. Other than that, it seems that a "rattle" or "snarl" that was noticed in the transmission has been suppressed and replaced by a "whine" or whirring" noise that is minimally intrusive at slow speeds.

For the future, I am going to reflash the ECU with the InMotion product and I am going to install a Suncoast Torque Converter...

So, if you haven't had F-37 done yet, it may happen the next time your CRD is in for service..

As an aside, I think it is criminal for Chrysler to derate an engine in fear of the transmission not being reliable. They should just bullet proof the transmission and not

with the engine!!!

Cheers!

Fulltimer · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 7:37 pm

Tell them to undo what they shouldn't have done. You didn't approve that work I assume.

Terry

longview · **Joined:** Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:28 pm **Posts:** 88

I agree whole-heartedly with Fulltimer.
Chysler retains no rights to change your vehicle without your knowledge and consent.

I would be ticked, and would have several harsh words for the service manager.
Demand some sort of compensation and see what you can get.

litton · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 7:57 pm

It's my impression that once flashed it can not be undone. I hope I'm wrong.

Billua · **Joined:** Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 64

litton wrote:

It's my impression that once flashed it can not be undone. I hope I'm wrong.

Actually, a ECU can be reflashed anytime with the proper software and OBD hardware, or alternately can reflashed with sending it to a place like InMotion, which is my next step.

I have called the service manager and questioned him on the ethics of installing this without telling me. He is sympathetic to what I was objecting to but it boils down to this: When a RECALL is out for a vehicle, they are under an obligation from Chrysler to perform it if a vehicle come in to the shop if they have the parts. He is also in agreement that it is total BS for them to derate the vehicle. Again, this dealership is mod friendly...They sell Dodge trucks and modify the hell out of some of them right on the showroom floor...

So, I have a few choices, tell this guy to go f himself and alienate a mod friendly dealer that we have had excellent service from over the last few years ( a rarity among auto dealers) or, I can go about modifying the vehicle as I want to and keep the dealer that does actually treat us well.

So, InMotion here I come and Suncoast, here I come

Cheers

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

It is my understanding the computer system will not allow the tech to reflash with the old program even if he wanted to. They download the programs each time and don't save them. You can only download what they offer you from corporate over the data connection-- which is always the latest approved stuff and not the full power output stuff.

That sucks.

And inMotion cannot fix it either-- they don't flash the TCM-- only the ECM. Several here have tried to get a pre-F37 TCM so they could download the code off it for reflashing. Without the old code, you are up the creek.

Billua · **Joined:** Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 64

Agreed,, but like I said, I think the TransGO hardware has softhened the blow from the F37 TCM.. Now, no need to relfash a pre F-37 TCM...Just bolt it on...

That is what I have been told anyway...Oh Well,it is wifeys vehicle, I just can't stand the thought of a power derate. And, I can take care of that

MTB_TDI · **Posted:** Thu May 29, 2008 10:57 pm

Since your dealer is "mod friendly," we need to have them flash the TCM with a stealthy little tool Charlie from KermaTDI has. That way we can see what they are doing. Would you be up for that? We want to figure out what they are doing so Charlie can work on it and un F-up our tractors!

Billua · **Joined:** Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 64

Probably not until I am out of warranty...

Update, I put the predator chip back on and wifey has been driving it around.. Guess what? the adaptive stuff must have relearned our driving style, the transmission is shifting just like it did before the mod and the power is right back up!

Jeez, what a ride the last 48 hours...The Libby is back!!!

I am still going to get a Suncoast converter when we are out of warranty and I would like to try the InMotion Flash...

Cheers

longview · **Joined:** Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:28 pm **Posts:** 88

Billua wrote:

He is sympathetic to what I was objecting to but it boils down to this: When a RECALL is out for a vehicle, they are under an obligation from Chrysler to perform it if a vehicle come in to the shop if they have the parts.

F37 was NOT a recall.
It was a Customer Satisfaction Notice.

You certainly arent satified. And they had NO right to change it.

Billua · **Joined:** Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 64

Quote:

F37 was NOT a recall.
It was a Customer Satisfaction Notice.

Now THAT is some useful information...

I have to say, with my mods, the only thing that I got out of this is a torque converter that might not leave me stranded on the road before the warranty runs out.

If you have an unmodded Libby, you will not be happy if this gets done to your vehicle.

I have learned a lesson... I will get it in writing that they will not do any work to the vehicle under any circumstances unless I authorize it...Including, TSB's, Recall or "Customer satisfaction" items...

Cheers!

Quote:

MTB_TDI · **Posted:** Fri May 30, 2008 8:37 pm

Billua,
what sticker did your TCM have on it before it was flashed?

What sticker did they put on it after they were done?

see this thread to see what I am after.
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=30678

Billua · **Joined:** Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 64

I will have to look when I get home on Sunday. I did look and compare both, original is 56044737AG and ithink the Mod sticker is 737AH.

I will let you know.

Turbo Tim · **Posted:** Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:05 pm

Ok here is the big question: Since my vehicle was F-37ed before I bought it, and is out of warrantee, and I have never (and will never) have the stealership do any kind of work on my vehicle, why can’t they reflash my ECU to the previous original version? It will never by covered by warrantee because it is already out of warrantee. I’m paying so why not?
Anyone try this approach yet?

fastRob · **Posted:** Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:23 pm

Turbo Tim wrote:

Ok here is the big question: Since my vehicle was F-37ed before I bought it, and is out of warrantee, and I have never (and will never) have the stealership do any kind of work on my vehicle, why can’t they reflash my ECU to the previous original version? It will never by covered by warrantee because it is already out of warrantee. I’m paying so why not?
Anyone try this approach yet?

There are many that want to go back, me too.
They are under a lot of different posts.
ECU programming, performance tunes, chips, reflashing, Edge, Inmotion, etc...

05crd · **Joined:** Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:54 pm **Posts:** 47

Turbo Tim wrote:

Ok here is the big question: Since my vehicle was F-37ed before I bought it, and is out of warrantee, and I have never (and will never) have the stealership do any kind of work on my vehicle, why can’t they reflash my ECU to the previous original version? It will never by covered by warrantee because it is already out of warrantee. I’m paying so why not?
Anyone try this approach yet?

They don't have the previous version to flash, they get the latest from corporate each time, no option to pick and choose.

Turbo Tim · **Posted:** Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:36 pm

I don’t believe that Chrysler has destroyed that software. I’m sure if there was some kind of high dollar law suit they could produce it. Since this was a “Convenience” fix and not a NTSB or other mandatory fix update, it just seems that right person at DC is not being contacted. Hopefully someone here “Knows People.”

If that doesn’t happen, then I guess the next best if find someone that hasn’t had the F37 done and get someone to clone both computers.

05crd · **Joined:** Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:54 pm **Posts:** 47

Turbo Tim wrote:

I don’t believe that Chrysler has destroyed that software. I’m sure if there was some kind of high dollar law suit they could produce it. Since this was a “Convenience” fix and not a NTSB or other mandatory fix update, it just seems that right person at DC is not being contacted. Hopefully someone here “Knows People.”

If that doesn’t happen, then I guess the next best if find someone that hasn’t had the F37 done and get someone to clone both computers.

I never said it was destroyed. I'd expect they have every version under revision control and it was probably some marketing or accounting decision to simplify and save money by making the latest and greatest version available to the service departments. You know, no way for a tech to accidentally install the wrong version, have the system decide for them.

The clone is currently the only option and there are a few here pursuing it but like most problems it isn't simple to undo the "upgrade". Besides the ECU there is the TCU to modify as well from the F37 and of course finding a suitable donor for the original is difficult. I keep hoping for breakthrough.

CRD Neutered!!!

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