Super Rock Rails!

rubigade · **Posted:** Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:20 pm

2006KJSPORT4x4 wrote:

Awesome stuff...are these modifications, the belly rock rails and rear control arm mount mod, available for all KJ owners at the location you had it done or would it be up to us to have another place perform a similar mod??

Thanks man. Yes these are all mods that Screamin Lizard Customs can do for all KJ owners. As much as I'd like to keep them to myself, it wouldn't be right.

Once I found a shop that would provide me with quality work, I began to brainstorm a little more about specifically what I wanted to do. I pretty much told them what I wanted and they just did it. All I had to do was pay 'em. I really enjoy going by there several times a week to see new and varied projects they have going on and once I saw that I thought I'd have them do mine once I had some discretionary money, of course. I have a pretty good head for what needs to be accomplished to make a vehicle more capable although I don't have the fabbing skills to do it myself. I just get up under there and think "If I were a rock, what would I destroy first?"
Honestly, I'm looking to sell my KJ. I love Jeepin so much that I'm gonna buy a tow rig ( Duramax powered Chevy 4x4) and build a real wheeling Jeep. This KJ is great but I hate the thought of damaging it as it is my daily driver. I've been real fortunate thus far because I've not gotten one dent or scrape on the body from wheeling excursions. The tough part of getting "a real Jeep" as some would say, is the conversation about it. When we go wheeling, everyone kindof laughs at first... but when they see it follow (or lead)their $50K "real Jeep" (and in some instances pull them out), they get real complimentary. Anyhow, if you know anyone who's interested, I'm asking around $16K. I'm negotiable every month I owe less on it but the mods I've made total about $5600 so something near that would be preferrable. Just FYI.

Signcutter21 · **Posted:** Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:36 am

Yeah Rubigade, they look awesome. Can you post some pics of the rear control arm work you had done. The "lips" on mine are way messed up, not really protecting the Rubicon Express control arms at all. Been trying to figure up what to do. Thanks.

mike

rubigade · **Posted:** Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:39 am

Signcutter21 wrote:

Yeah Rubigade, they look awesome. Can you post some pics of the rear control arm work you had done. The "lips" on mine are way messed up, not really protecting the Rubicon Express control arms at all. Been trying to figure up what to do. Thanks.

mike

Hey Mike, try this.

As you can see, it's pretty simple. And they aren't really protecting the control arm. They just don't look chewed on nor are they bent into the functioning part of the control arm. Just make sure you leave plenty of room for that control arm to move downward. Look close. See the little radius cut in the plate? Make sure that you do that cause I actually maxed it out and at full flex, brought that control arm to within a half an inch of that. Too, notice that they welded them at the same angle as the control arm so I could slide up on something instead of just hit it.
Hope this helps.
Ok, for those of you wondering about if these new sliders improved my ground clearance? Compare these two pics. Granted the one in the grass is for some reason elongated, nonetheless, both pics are on level ground and surprisingly about the same distance away. Look closely at where the bottom of the factory rail in the left pic and the bottom of the custom slider in the right pic intersect the centercap on the wheel.

The factory one comes out just about even with the bottom radius of the centercap. The custom one comes out just about even with the middle of the top lug nut holes. If that's close enough for you, then it is for me... I measured it just now... 4 inches of added clearance AT THE ROCKER PANEL!!!
Boys and girls, that's alot of added clearance for not lifting or changing the suspension in any way!

rubigade · **Posted:** Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:46 am

jerbacher wrote:

rubigade,

are those sheet metal screws holding the upper part into the body or can you somehow get a nut behind there?

Oh yeah. I forgot what they are called but SL can tell you. Basically they are threaded "sleaves" that fit into the factory placed holes. When you tighten the screw in there, they enlarge and fit tight like they were drilled. Honestly, I don't think they do as much for strength as they do to just keep it all together and keep the gaps clean and snug. Of course they are hardened screws but that's all I can tell you.

jeremesh · **Posted:** Sat May 10, 2008 6:29 pm

Has anybody else tried to build these or gotten screaminlizard to make them for ya?

nosnorb_808 · **Posted:** Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:41 pm

anyone hear anything new on these rails yet? I really like the design but am wondering about the vendor.

jsc7002 · **Posted:** Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:49 pm

nosnorb_808 wrote:

anyone hear anything new on these rails yet? I really like the design but am wondering about the vendor.

las ti heard the guy tha bought them liked them and said they were holding up good, and the vendor that made them for him was his local dealership, and I believe that someone from here called to find out how much and they were $800 or so

rubigade · **Posted:** Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:11 am

Hey guya,
I'm own the set in question and I'll tell you this... not only are they absolutely the most solidly built "rock sliders" I've ever seen, they are also the smartest built. I designed them but since I have no welding experience, I had my friends up at Screaminlizardcustoms build 'em. The guy in particular that build 'em has, as you can see, some serios metal skills and did an awesome job.
Let me say this, I've heard opinions from various responders about how the bolts would get sheared off, how they were mounted too tight to the body and rocks would just reach over them and hit the doors, how they needed a protruding bar to be effective and how they were too expensive... WRONG to all! I've wheeled the heck out of them... They couldn't be better built. They guard, protect and slide across EVERYTHING. The difference in these versus others are their "boatside" characteristics. No rock, stick or stump is going to get up into the body floor or get caught on the underside body bolts or get hung in the "ladder bars" that other rocker guards have as their mounting brackets (which is basically all the others are). These make the underside completely slick as true "sliders" and with them, you can go places many bigger tired and more capable rigs can (or can't) just because you can simply slide over the obstacles.
Not only are they great sliders, you can use them to jack up your KJ if you bust a valve stem as I did. You can take my word for it... or not. All it takes is some common sense though. You take one look at them; seeing how they are contoured and fabbed to the body taking the place of the plastic rocker moldings and the factory rock bars, improving ground clearance by 3 or 4 inches at the doors, and allowing you to move over obstacles that would otherwise gouge into and hang up your rig and it's a no brainer. I'll see if I can find some video and post it for you to see for those doubters still "wondering".
I'll say this, if you can't see how important they are just by looking at their construction and build material, you've not really wheeled your KJ! On organized events (Jamborees), I've wheeled with groups where the smallest "allowable" tire size was 35" (mine are 31s) and took the same lines and obstacles they did in most cases. On 3 Jamborees (6 days of wheeling), I've been with the big boys (35 plus inchers) and have only been strapped three times! I have been strapped a few times in the mud when I got into deeper ruts than my tires could reach into but that's pretty impressive for a little rig that was not built to rock crawl. Think about it... Heck, ask Clint! He worked his MOJO to get me into these groups where all the guides were Naysayers... until we went wheeling. They were quite impressed and surprised.
The first thing I put on my next Jeep in order... #1. I'll have custom sliders built and #2 I'll have ARB lockers installed. I'll build and install my sliders BEFORE I lift it! Cause if your guts get dragged out, who cares how cool it looks!
If you don't get hung up, what's to stop you? That's just me!
Quit lookin for a downside to these things... there aint one.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:23 am

Quote:

I'll say this, if you can't see how important they are just by looking at their construction and build material, you've not really wheeled your KJ!

Not knocking the design but I do wheel the snot out of my KJ and that "outer bar" has saved my doors more then once(you should wheel Chinamans gultch),I'm sure they do what they are intended to do but they do not offer any more ground clearance then RL's Skinks or AllJ's Boulber bars,sorry but they really don't.

KJ2005 · **Joined:** Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:05 am **Posts:** 27

those look awesome, alot of the time hand built is better than bought because of the fact that you learn as you build. You'll be able to make any adjustments or improvements yourself from the rails or by feedback from these fourms.

Dje Ryu · **Posted:** Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:40 am

Oops, wrong place. Sorry.

bighause · **Posted:** Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:38 am

I have been wheeling with rubigade a couple times, and I can tell you those sliders work great and he is definitely not easy on his jeep. They free up a couple of inches of ground clearance at the rockers compared to the boulder bars style of guards.

I also have a couple of dents in my rockers from following him on trails

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:04 pm

It's all vaporware so the discussion is moot. These are the smartest sliders built entirely from unobtainium.
This reminds me of a bumper discussion on here somewhere.
RL Fab is the way to go my brothers. I can save you guys some cash, give me $400 and I'll come over to your house and kick you square in the jimmies.

nosnorb_808 · **Posted:** Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:29 pm

I wasnt trying to knock the design or anything. I just havent heard of the vendor. I was basically wondering how creditable the vendor is. Not trying to stir anything up. I really like the design & do see myself ordering a set in the near future. I myself like to do as much of research before making any kind of purchase. Thanks for all the info in regards to my questions. Some videos or pics of the sliders in use would be awesome & much appreciated.

XC204 · **Posted:** Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:07 pm

Those are a thing of beauty! just measure your KJ make a sketch do a cardboard mockup take to your local structural metal fab shop the photos give a wealth of info or learn to weld and buy a welder its fun doing your own stuff.

rubigade · **Posted:** Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:22 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

Quote:

I'll say this, if you can't see how important they are just by looking at their construction and build material, you've not really wheeled your KJ!

Not knocking the design but I do wheel the snot out of my KJ and that "outer bar" has saved my doors more then once(you should wheel Chinamans gultch),I'm sure they do what they are intended to do but they do not offer any more ground clearance then RL's Skinks or AllJ's Boulber bars,sorry but they really don't.

I'm sure you wheel your Jeep like heck and it makes sense that more protruding bars would protect your sheetmetal. But HOW does it make sense that you could add bar style sliders to the bottom of your existing rocker panels and have the same or better ground clearance than what I've done by replacing my rocker panels entirely??? If you are 10 inches from the ground to the rocker panels in stock form and you ADD 2 inches of bars to the rocker panels, now you only have 8 inches of clearance!!! How is your clearance the same or better?
It's impossible. Somewhere in here, I think earlier in this thread, I posted measurments of before and after and the difference was like 4 inches more clearance.
But that doesn't matter man. If that's what you like, that's cool. You obviously work with RL... you have his ad on your posts. You should prefer his stuff over others. Besides, he's got quality stuff. Mine is just a different approach, that's all. IMO, it seems like those bars are really great for stepping on. In everycase I've seen, protruding bars or whatever, USUALLY get in the way of a clean run. And my personal preference as well as my experience tells me... I'd rather have smooth plate tight against the body to slide on than bars that stick out. It also keeps it stealthy for when your not wheeling, like driving around town. Look at the profile and underside of mine.

Now look at the profile of the others; there's not really a pic of what it looks like underneath but you can imagine all the possible hangups if this is what it looks like.

What's gonna happen to you when a pointed rock or stump gets caught in between all the gussets? You're gonna be there and maybe have damage to your floorboard. Now, what's gonna happen to mine? I'm gonna slide right over 'em! On the otherhand, what if a pointed/protruding rock or stump comes up BESIDE you? You should slide right by. If I come across the same protruding object, first of all, its gonna have to be 3 inches higher to even make contact with my slider which gives me that much more room to manuever around it. So... my sliders enable me to be 3 inches higher at the rocker panel BEFORE contact and, if yours protrude 3 inches out on each side, I'll be 6 inches narrower at the rocker panel. Pretty big difference if you ask me. Heck, we could drive down the same trail on the same line and you'd make contact long before I would... and contact is the difference between making it and not. Just my perspective. I guess it's a good thing they are less expensive because you can contribute the savings to body repair or towing charges. I don't even know why we're having this discussion.
On a different subject but similar point, I saw a front bumper the other day that had a literal "roller" that protrudes from the underside of it 4 or 5 inches so it can "roll over" anything it hits. I thought to myself "if that roller wasn't there, it might not HIT anything." :idea:

And by being stationary, that thing clearly reduced the approach angle. My point is, you very well may not hit at all without all the extra exoskeleton type bars protruding everywhere. Furthermore, those big metal bumpers everyone seems to want to install (I did too for a while) usually get in the way or hang up on something. By keeping the factory plastic ones on, if I hit something, they just flex and allow me to move on. With a rigid, stationary bumper on, you bottom out and cannot keep moving. That's ok on a TJ or JK with really flexy suspension and big tires but with little flex and small tires it's not. Clearance is the key. I guess those big bumpers good for extraction points, huh? :oops:

Again, I'm not saying that stuff isn't quality or cool. It most certainly is. I'm just saying that we can get so caught up in buying all this extra stuff that ultimately weighs us down and reduces our capability. Oh well, that's why there's different strokes for different folks. Besides, "It's less the machine and more the operator." anyway.

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:44 pm

It's all moot because what you have is a "one off" and the RL FABulous (Boulder Bars, MOPAR etc) can actually be purchased. I guess it depends on how you define "ground clearance". If you mean how much your Jeep clears the ground (not sure how else you define it) Troy is right.

As far as stumps getting stuck in the sliders, well, now you're just reaching.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:07 pm

Why are folks saying they're

Quote:

vaporware so the discussion is moot. These are the smartest sliders built entirely from unobtainium

???? - rubigade has them because he ordered them - Screaming lizard is still in business - if you like them email him and ask.
http://www.screaminlizard.com/

The real downside was they were expensive - I think about $800+ or so - and they'll be a lead time because they're custom - but my Rock Lizard bumper took ~7 months so KJ stuff isn't always sitting on the shelf.

(also both the ARB front and Rock Lizard rear bumpers increase ground clearance over stock)

as to how reliable Screaming lizard is - well he's a small custom shop - sometimes they do well - sometimes they self destruct - more small businesses fail than suceed. So be cautious. but all of that is true of Rock Lizard, All-J's, Sundance, probably the only big company we deal with is ARB/OME.

bighause · **Posted:** Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:15 pm

FYI Screaming lizard is not a small shop, they are part of a very successful and well respected dealership and do everything from standard lifts to custom 6.1L hemi swaps in 4 door rubicons and AEV Brute conversions for TJs.

Until you see the sliders in person, in action you don't realize how good they are.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:37 pm

Our definition of 'small' is different.

I consider any single dealer to be small
and manufacturers need to be in the $millions/quarter.

if you're smaller than that you really don't have defined production lines, quality controls or people management plans that help the company will survive past the founder, I mean they may survive - but the odds are a lot lower. (of course even being big doesn't guarantee it - just changes changes the odds)

- back to Screaming lizard - if I was looking for Rock rails and I had $800 to spend - I'd be talking to them.

Super Rock Rails!

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