These are really friggi sweet. I have said that before. I was doing some mock ups of my own custom ones and I couldn't quite get them to look as "straight from the factory" as I wanted so I said screw it and mounted my Mopar ones back on. I am looking into ways to beef up the Mopar ones but not sure if it would even be worth it. I have already made them come out 3" farther from the stock location, added gussets for side to side strength and a bar that bolts to the pinch weld. So they are already stronger than they were but now I ned to figure a way to beef up the round bar that is too weak.

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My Jeep Build ----> Big Black

Someone said they weigh 50-60 lbs. but those things look like they weigh at least 70 pounds each. That's like adding a third bumper and a winch to your Jeep.
I'd like to see them weighed.

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2003 Limited, Silver - L.O.S.T. # 068957 Rockies
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2127390/14
2006 Kawasaki KLR650

FWIW, I have a nice dent in my floor under my feet from a good size rock that got wedged up between the rails and then got me stuck. Had to hi-lift out of that mess.
I will be adding plating similar to these along the bottom of my current BB's, also adding some frame plating for them to mount to so the factory frame rail no longer bends..... and possibly an outer round rail similar to the RL's. Since I can't buy a set like the SL's, I'll just modify what I have.

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99 TJ
71 C101
04 KJ
03 SFA KJ Sport
LOST JEEPS So-Cal

I'm glad we now have proof of what Rubigade and I have mentioned before on here. I have never seen it happen but I always figured it was a possibility with any rock rail that mounts the way pretty much every single rock rail made for the KJ mounts (with the arms that mount to the frame). Like Rubigade said, his wouldn't allow that to happen. I wish I had the skill and know how so I could make these myself because $800 is ridiculous but the design looks great. If you mounted and extended bar like the RL ones then you would be set for anything out on the trail as far as need for rock rails is concerned. Like JJ said I too am going to modify what I have because $$ is in short supply as of late. I have a good idea of what to do, but well see if it works.

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My Jeep Build ----> Big Black

yo dem shizznits is tite yo

Dude, I got your point about doing these rails if you had $800 to spend. But honestly, the COST is a moot point. Its a value thing to me. I obviously have a perspective contrary to most because it seems like most Jeepers spend money on big lifts, tires and wheels, racks, bumpers and all the "looks" parts FIRST when all that usually does is get them stuck deeper (and broke) because they THOUGHT they had the rig to do so, then later, they decide to go with sliders, gears and lockers... you know, things that really make a rig capable and set it apart from those "lookers" because they see the "value" of getting home in the same rig they left in. As far as I'm concerned, if one accessory/necessity protects the vital components of my rig, if it enables it to go further, and if it doesn't detract from my intended appearance (which is pointless if it doesn't perform), THEN and only then will it find it's way on my rig.

I don't really know why it's such a big deal to you that a parts provider be "big" or not. It only makes sense that MASS production contributes to POOR quality and that the quality of MASS produced anything is less likely to be controlled and suffers greatly the bigger a provider gets. I'd much rather have individual "one off" pieces built specifically for my rig because it'll FIT better, more closely SERVE it's intended purpose, LOOK better... just all around BE BETTER. Having a product hand built only contributes to it's near "perfectness"! Can you say Rolls Royce, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Maserati or Ferrari to name a few?
'Nuff said.

I said they weigh 50 or 60 lbs! I helped install them. And UNLIKE those rediculously heavy winches and bumpers ya'll install on one end of your rig or the other, these things spread what weight there is to all four corners, not just the front or rear!


Reaching?! JL Rockies, you've either lost your mind or you've never been wheeling in Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas or anywhere else where rocks are the size of your Lazyboy or Coffee table and tree stumps are, well... if you didn't have 'em, you wouldn't be on much of a trail. 'Cause you got to cut 'em to make a trail! Who's Troy? "Ground clearance", at least where I'm from is only defined ONE WAY. How would something you install BETWEEN your Jeep and the ground without lifting your Jeep, give you MORE ground clearance? Uhhh, I don't think it would.

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05 Black "RUBI-GADE"
MOABs w/ MTRs
Rusty's 2.5 lift
Al J's Gen4 Upper Control Arms
Custom front skid
Rusty's rear diff guard
Super Sliders by Screamin Lizard
ARB Air lockers!!
Cut my teeth in a CJ-5
"It's less the Machine and more the Operator."
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2591493

He's wheeled in MOAB and the Rockies where the rocks are as big as your KJ if not 5 times larger,any mountains in texas or oki?

Ground clearence on vehicles is measured from the LOWEST point on the vehicle,99% of the time that is under your rear diff,not rockrails.So by the definition you'd gain zero ground clearance from any rock rails,anyway Skink sliders and Boulder bars do not drop below the unibody "frame rail" anyway so no lost clearance there.

Again not knocking the design but they will trap mud under there and taking them off all the time would be a real pain.Oh and I have never got anything hung up in my Skinks mounting legs,I use a spotter and know where those big rocks are going to be under my KJ.

Screaming Lizards sliders in my opinion has the cleanest & best design. They are expensive but you get what you pay for. I will be purchasing a set soon. I will also be adding a rock bar to them for added protection. For the mud & drainage problem, if there ever is any you could always drill a hole in it plug & unplug it shoot it out with some H2O

There are two different types of clearance being discussed here.

1. Ground clearance: measured from the lowest point on your KJ, the rear diff.

2. rocker clearance: the distance from your stock rocker panel to the ground.

The "super rock rails" (I don't know what they are really called) give you more rocker panel clearance, not ground clearance, than the RL ones. That is a fact. The issues of mud and debris being stuck inside is a moot point because a hole can be added to aid in cleaning them out. Also not a pain, would take a few seconds with a hose. The "super rock rails" do protect your under belly better and allow you to slide over things better than the RL ones because they are a solid surface underneath. They also save your KJ from what happened to JJ's KJ (mentioned above), even the best off roader can slide off a rock and whoops there is the big dent. Accidents happen and anyone knows that these rock rails prepare you for those possible circumstances. These also allow for a stock look if that is what your going for. These are expensive but you get what you pay for.

The RL rails are much better for door protection as they stick out and allow you to pivot on them and help keep low boulders away from your doors. They do allow things to get wedged or hit the underside of the KJ and like I mentioned, this might be unlikely but is obviously possible. The RL rails are lighter by far from what I can tell and since the KJ is not exactly a light weight to begin with, every little pound helps. With the RL rails you don't have to worry about cleaning them out at all. They are less expensive that the "super rock rails" and with the extra money you can buy other cool stuff for your KJ. RL is also a vendor on our site here and it is nice to show a little love to them once in a while, but it is nice to have one off stuff that people wonder where it came from.

Either way you go your KJ will be glad you did it. Both great designs and both worthy of anyone's KJ.

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My Jeep Build ----> Big Black

Awww..... heck w/ it........Think I will just boatside mine, cut out the rockers and install 1/4" plate....yeah thats the ticket...

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99 TJ
71 C101
04 KJ
03 SFA KJ Sport
LOST JEEPS So-Cal

I want to join the argument....



More surface area= more friction=Hung up more

I have ones similar to RL, BUT mine are 45lbs each ....and I welded them to the Uniframe and Pinch weld.... I've never been hung up on the rails, I always slide right off.... I've been hung up with my belly skid more than anything

Just say Smith-Or Jones or something..
It Doesn't matter... None of this matters.... (Karl from ATHF)

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2000 Cherokee Trail Hawk
3.5" R.E Superflex Lift, R.E Quick Disconnects, R.E Rear Driveshaft, SYE, OME Steering Stabilizer, ARB Diff Covers, JW Speaker Black Heated Headlights, Mickey Thompson 16x8 wheels, 245/75r16 Toyo Open Country AT's, 15 lb Powertank

2003 KJ Sport (BLACK) 230,000+Miles (Decommissioned)

OK OK now I want to join in as well.

I like the basic design that most are using (Boulder Bars/ Rock Lizard etc. ) , they provide a strong mounting system and should work well 99 % of the time protecting the body

For me I had a set of Boulder Bars on for three weeks and sold them recently due to; one, the looks and also my wife sliding her leg over them all the time getting her pants dirty when mommas not happy no ones happy!

I like the look of a boat sided vehicle , to me provides a clean look, smooth to slide over and protects enough for what I will do. I have a set drawn up that deals with the water / mud issues, deals with the mounting up close to the body etc. If DLOC would of stuck around for another week ........... Oh well but for me I like Screamins design, may not be for everyone but the stealth look is killer!

As my old buddy John used to say "Thats killer fine!"

Tom

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MUDD'S MOTORSPORT'S We do IFS lift installs ,
03 OVERLAND EDITION /Kilby-Skidrow-Mopar-4XGuard skids/ 2.5 inch TOTAL CONTROL JBA coilovers -JBA Arms/MOABS-31 FALKEN WILDPEAK AT3W / 4.10's etc, 04 Kilimanjaro Edition loaded, plus 05 KJ limited

Yeah right Tom! you just wanted to go against the grasshopper...

Of course they'll protect enough for you... You parking lot crawler!!! Kidding! Kidding!
(I've been trying to get Tom to wheel with me forever, and will keep giving him crap until he does, even though I should keep my mouth shut so he'll help me in the near future (I hope )

But seriously: They do look Killer fine! and I'm sure they'll do the job..... Anyone who gets a set will have much better protection, and good looks to boot. (the rails) not the driver!

I only paid $150 for my rails.. so $800 seems like a lot to me....
But if I won the lottery... I'd get these in a heart beat.... OK.. I'm done..

chris

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2000 Cherokee Trail Hawk
3.5" R.E Superflex Lift, R.E Quick Disconnects, R.E Rear Driveshaft, SYE, OME Steering Stabilizer, ARB Diff Covers, JW Speaker Black Heated Headlights, Mickey Thompson 16x8 wheels, 245/75r16 Toyo Open Country AT's, 15 lb Powertank

2003 KJ Sport (BLACK) 230,000+Miles (Decommissioned)

Hey now, first of all I didn't say ALL the rocks were the size of furniture, just the ones that can get jammed up in the middle of ya!

I do understand the "ground clearance" but I consider front to rear (approach, breakover and departure angles) AND side to side (rocker to rocker angles) because it's such a factor. Heck, if it's not, why are we all so concerned with protecting them.

Mud and water is not a problem BECAUSE my rigs sees mud only occasionally. Besides, they aren't "cupped" in anyway and can NOT hold water. Furthermore, it's so hard on bearings and stuff. I have been mudding in my Liberty and don't really care to do it too much. Most of the mud holes around here have been wallered in by some idiot with like 66 inch terra tires or so it seems so I have to hammer it to slide through. Honestly though, the way these sliders are made, they don't collect anything. I do not intend to take them off either... EVER!

Hey BTW, I made a great point about "quality control" and nobody even seconded me!!! What's up with that?

Mountains in Texas? Dude! Ever heard of Katemcy Rocks? Not really a mountain but it's a knarly enough "hill" for all the 4 wheelin mags to speak highly of it. It's the single biggest frickin rock on the North American Continent!!!
There's El Capitan and Guadalupe Peak in the Guadalupe Mountain Range, Chisos Mountains, North Franklin Mountain in El Paso...
Oklahoma? Arbuckle Mountains, Boston Mountains, Quachita Mountains, Kiamichi Mountains, Ozark Mountains... ok, I'm just Googling 'em cause I don't really know... I've been to the Quachita Mountains and Katemcy Rocks often and in nearby at a private ranch wheeling and it's alot of fun.

Ok, ok. nevermind. I won't even try to compete with God's Country... Colorado. THAT is what life is all about there. So what's the temperature there right now. Here it was only 106!!

Enjoy bantering back and forth though. Maybe we can hook up someday, all of us and go test 'em out... those sliders and skills.

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05 Black "RUBI-GADE"
MOABs w/ MTRs
Rusty's 2.5 lift
Al J's Gen4 Upper Control Arms
Custom front skid
Rusty's rear diff guard
Super Sliders by Screamin Lizard
ARB Air lockers!!
Cut my teeth in a CJ-5
"It's less the Machine and more the Operator."
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2591493

it's not oki.
IT IS OKLAHOMA!!!

Just thought I'd throw that in there haha

Well I'm from South Dakota and we refer to it as Oki,oki doki (J/K).

FYI - my comments on big/small - are a response to nosnorb_808's question about the vendor -
if your question is 'when I send this guy money, will I get a product or excuses' - small businesses have a lot more failures than large - and as to your list of Quality companies

'Rolls Royce, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Maserati or Ferrari'

from a business standpoint - they all failed.

Rolls is owned by BMW
Bentley/Bugatti are owned by VW
Lamborghini is owned by Audi (which is owned by VW)
Maserati/Ferrari are owned by Fiat

They have enough name recognition that they still exist as names -
but they no longer control their own futures - their quality is a function of what the parent company is willing to spend.



(oh yeah - Oki is the polite name)

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2005 CRD
stuff
Skeptic quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

Oh good. You're from here. Then you know what I mean when I call you an 'aggie'! You know like Goober but bigger! JK. No, by Quality Control I mean how well something is made, not whether or not they've ever gone out of business. "Quality Control" has nothing to do with making money. It has to do with making a quality product and maintaining it's "quality" throughout the process of construction and manufacture. As a matter of fact, many companies have such quality control that unless they "engineer" some failure points into their products, their clients would never need another because the original worked so well. Then they WOULD go out of business because no one would be a repeat buyer. They'd just keep the great one they already had.



Why do you think they have name recognition? Because they were all known to be very, very good cars with excellent fit and finish and performance... you know, they HAD (some still do) great "Quality Control" processes at one time that earned them that reputation.

Quality is formally defined as the degree of excellence. Control is formally defined as the power to direct or regulate; to restrain. So... Quality Control together means "the power to direct, regulate or restrain the degree of excellence." I didn't see "make money" or "succeed or stay in business" anywhere.

Hey, on a different note, I've got a couple of friends here in the DFW area that have KJs like me and wheel 'em. Bighause on here is local and I think some others. Can we get up a wheelin event soon? Maybe even the Fall Texas Spur Jeep Jamboree in Llano or something cool like that... or the Hot Springs Jambo? Check 'em out. I'd love to get more KJs on these Jambos with me. It's funny because I'm the only Liberty on the last 3 I've gone on and I go with the big boys. Ironically, the group tends to look for me on each obstacle because evidently it's entertaining to watch the "little grocery getter" hang with the "real Jeeps".

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05 Black "RUBI-GADE"
MOABs w/ MTRs
Rusty's 2.5 lift
Al J's Gen4 Upper Control Arms
Custom front skid
Rusty's rear diff guard
Super Sliders by Screamin Lizard
ARB Air lockers!!
Cut my teeth in a CJ-5
"It's less the Machine and more the Operator."
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2591493

Well - back to my original intent - the comments on big/small are relative to the probability of them still being in business between the time they take your money and the time they ship your stuff - and so if their investment in 'quality' causes them to go out of business in that time - then the 'quality' is meaningless because you haven't received it.

Also when you define quality in terms of excellence - you're really close to a circular definition - from a manufacturing standpoint quality is normally defined in terms of meeting requirements - yeah I know that doesn't have the emotional impact of 'degree of excellence' but you can define and measure requirements - if you can measure it - you can improve it, you can control it. Although it does mean that a Honda and a Rolls can both be quality - but the Rolls has luxury the Honda doesn't.

Also if they're really Engineers - they don't design failure points -(that's what accountants are for) - Engineers do design to very specific lifespan targets and those lifespans are a function of the price targets for the product (that's what the marketing guidelines are for) so if it fails at lifespan +1, the Engineer did his job( although he probably originally targeted +100,000 and the accountants went with minimum bids on the suppliers)

As to Agg-em's- we've got bunches of them running around here - and some are pretty good Engineers, some are just plain weird and most are a little of both - but they all have more Aggie jokes than I do, so while that's incorrect - but I'm not real insulted by it - it's not like you called me an 'Oki' or something.

on the different note - circle down to LoneStarLOST (yes we have our own section) and say Howdy to CowtownKJ - he's new, looking for wheeling buddies and you're in the neighborhood.
You might add some info about the Jamboree's I don't' think most folks pay attention to them and you might get some interest.

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2005 CRD
stuff
Skeptic quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

These are really friggin nice, but since I don't have the $800 to drop on them or I don't have the time and patience to copy them, I went a bit cheaper (about $60) and fabbed these up and got rid of my Mopar rails.

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=34632

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My Jeep Build ----> Big Black