BIG trouble. EGR valve head bolt stripped

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:55 pm

EGR replacement was going spiffy (at least barely tolerable) until it came time to remove the most difficult mounting bolt - way up against the block. I thought the wrench was well engaged on it, but I was wrong. What I thought was feel of the bolt coming loose was the feel of the wrench smearing the corners of the bolt head. I cannot count the number of cuss words I have now invented. Why FK did they pick one of the most difficult spots on the engine to specify an 8mm bolt with a funky tapered head that would be tough to remove even in the best of conditions!?!?!

I have tried everything I can think of but that sucker is so hard to get to even with the best of tools - I can barely touch it even with much of the side of engine ripped off. I am now officially stumped. I think this would be a major challenge even if the engine was removed from the car. (Those funky wrenches that grab stripped bolt heads don't even come close to fitting in there. )

Here is what I am seriously considering:
Grinding the chrome off an 8mm box wrench, placing it over the bolt head, cramming my welder down there, feeling around to line it up and welding the box wrench to the bolt head. If I'm able to loosen it, I would then break the wrench off the bolt and unscrew it by hand.
Or, go into town and buy a 2' long chisel and smack it with sledge hammer to break the top off of it. (unfortunately, I don't think the EGR would be able to slide off of the bolt with just the head removed as the bolt is long and there is very little space above the valve.
I also thought about grinding the head off with a dremmel tool but I can't get that back there either.
Since I'm going to throw away the EGR anyway I also thought of various ways I might be able to smash it out of there ....but it is made of thick cast aluminum and I would likely damage everything except that EGR in my futile attempts.

I also thought about carefully placing some dynamite near the engine.

Turbo Tim · **Posted:** Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:44 am

It's hard to say without seeing it but this is what I have done in the past with a rounded off bolt.
Take a larger nut and place on top of the bad one. Next using a wire-feed welder, weld the inside of the nut to the top of the other bolt. Let cool, use new (correct size) socket/wrench and remove.

Method B is to remove all other bolts, and anything that would be holding it on except the bad bolt. Take a torch and heat head of bolt until bright white. Pull on housing. Or you could just burn off the top of the old bolt head.
Either way, good luck and have the water hose handy....

Uffe · **Posted:** Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:33 am

I like that dynamite idea! :lol:

Next time use a ringspanner to put pressure on all 6 sides of those bolts. I nearly smashed up my own oil pan plug way back on my nissan because I was being a tool and used an adjustable spanner on it :oops:

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Plan C.

You're now expending a tremendous amount of energy and money to replace a part that the segr will obsolete. It was worth a shot to replace the failed egr, but that payoff has disappeared.

Unless this project has turned from practical modification into a quest and you're going to install a segr, reinstall the failed egr valve and then install blocking plates on both ports of the egr valve.

This will provide long term protection for your engine, both from exhaust leakage and coolant leakage protection should the cooler ever develop leaks. This coolant leakage on egr coolers is a developing issue with Passat TDI engines on long term basis. They use similar technology as our CRD egr coolers. Alternatively, you can install a single blocking plate and disconnect the coolant lines to the egr cooler. Once the segr and blocking plate is installed, you're good to go. Return the egr valve and save some money for a really useful mod.

The frustration you're going through is all for putting a new egr valve on, that won't ever be needed again once the segr is on.

Wobbly · **Posted:** Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:37 am

Will this fit? http://www.irwin.com/irwin/consumer/jht ... Prod100512

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:29 pm

Sears has them too
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00952061000P?vName=Tools&cName=Hand+Tools%2C+General+Purpose&sName=Bolt-Out%2C+Taps+%26+Dies

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:22 pm

high quality needle nose vise grips?

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:26 pm

Quote:

The frustration you're going through is all for putting a new egr valve on, that won't ever be needed again once the segr is on.

This is very true and probably a more rational approach.
My "thinking" - if you could call it that - was to put in a new EGR in case something happened that would necessitate using it again. For example, if the SEGR circuit ever fails I can't be sure the experts on this forum would be here to help diagnose or fix it and my knowledge of circuit design is minimal. If that coincided with an emissions test I would need it.

Thanks Wobbly and ATXKJ. I have never seen one of these. I will march down to Sears and buy a set of those "Bolt-outs" this weekend to have on hand! Very cool.

I did finally get the damthang off at 2 am this morning. I grabbed a huge crowbar and a sledge hammer, sharpened the end of the crowbar on the grinder so it was bite into the metal and then placed it on the right side of the screw head and smacked it good. With each smack, the crowbar would bounce off and it would take another minute or so to get it all lined up again. After what seemed an eternity I got it to the point where I could move the EGR back and forth a tiny bit and noticed the bolt head was actually moving with the part. This was very good news because it meant the threads were no longer bound up. I then sacrificed a cheap 8mm wrench and pounded it down so it was slightly distorted and fit a bit tighter on the stripped bolt head. Then I placed it onto the bolt head and moved it counter clockwise with the EGR just a tiny amount....and then carefully moved the EGR back again while holding the wrench still. There was just enough strength in the connection that after several iterations the bolt freed up. Since it was badly bent it took another 15 minutes to back it out. Once out, I beat the crap out of it with a sledge hammer. I hadn't done something like that since the 20 years ago I used to wrench on cars - but I did feel better.

I replace the offending bolt with an allen head.

Of course, true to form, once everything was nearly together again I noticed I had badly misaligned the gasket (it's very hard to see) and had to tear it all apart again. Finally, after purging the fuel lines with my nifty lift pump, the car started up with no hesitation and idled far better than it did before I started.

But then there is the little problem with the thermostat which is why I started tearing into this thing in the first place: Apparently the gasket didn't seat right and it is leaking. SO....have to go out and tear the whole thing down again which, if not for the stripped bolt, is a more difficult operation than replacing the EGR!! :evil:

So much for my Saturday.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Don't ask me how I recognized it. :-)

Quote:

For example, if the SEGR circuit ever fails I can't be sure the experts on this forum would be here to help diagnose or fix it and my knowledge of circuit design is minimal. If that coincided with an emissions test I would need it.

Tim did a great job on the design. It follows one of the basic laws of good engineering - keep it simple. The segr is brilliant in its simplicity. It takes really good design skills to create a simple solution to a complex problem.

However, because the design is using common, easily available parts, you could buy every part on the circuit board and resolder it. If you lacked any soldering skills, you could take it and the schematic/parts list to a local high school electronics class and have one of the students repair it. Or buy a spare and keep it in the Jeep. No need to do without your segr ever again.

Now that it's past, you should keep that new egr valve in pristine condition by adding the egr long life extender, aka the segr, as soon as you can. At least run the ORM to keep the soot level down.

Good luck on the thermostat. You're not alone. My CRD has always had, since 2005 , an annual sticky thermostat incident and it doesn't have to be hot weather. It happened the last time driving downhill at an altitude of 6100 feet, in 34* F drizzling rain. As always, the needle went to the 1 pm position, then after a minute or two, dropped like a rock back to normal. It rarely gets above 208*F when it happens as measured by an OBD reader. The other 99% of the time, I drive it in up to 108*F temps and it never budges above 180* and usually it stays about 176*.

Now that I've seen your pics of the thermostat, I see why its sticking.

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:55 pm

Use the bolt out if you have the room. You can get a set of them at autozone, and maybe home depot....

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:20 pm

Quote:

Tim did a great job on the design. It follows one of the basic laws of good engineering - keep it simple. The segr is brilliant in its simplicity. It takes really good design skills to create a simple solution to a complex problem.

It IS a brilliant design - Unfortunately, I'm NOT a brilliant customer.

Quote:

However, because the design is using common, easily available parts, you could buy every part on the circuit board and resolder it. If you lacked any soldering skills, you could take it and the schematic/parts list to a local high school electronics class and have one of the students repair it. Or buy a spare and keep it in the Jeep. No need to do without your segr ever again.

Good point! (I should probably store the schematics in a safe spot)

Quote:

Now that it's past, you should keep that new egr valve in pristine condition by adding the egr long life extender, aka the segr, as soon as you can. At least run the ORM to keep the soot level down.

Due to time constraints from tracking down and (trying) to fix mechanical issues, I should probably take the easy way out and just send the thing to UFO so he can build and test it before I hack into the wire harness.

As difficult as it was, the EGR replacement project was a nice success to have amidst my angst from ongoing overheating problems. I was very happy to see my Chinese-made code reader's grammatically challenged message: "Theres no problem codes is in this vehicle!"

chrispitude · **Posted:** Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:06 am

KeighJeigh wrote:

Of course, true to form, once everything was nearly together again I noticed I had badly misaligned the gasket (it's very hard to see) and had to tear it all apart again. Finally, after purging the fuel lines with my nifty lift pump, the car started up with no hesitation and idled far better than it did before I started.

To clarify the above - you are saying that with no other change than an EGR swap, you feel your idle quality improved?

- Chris

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:21 am

...anything all but the most experienced service techs know. Swapping parts for recalls pay good money, getting out stuck bolts costs bonus time and cuts into making big bucks. That is why the Service Techs who go to work for dealers want to make the big bucks and not solve problems like Cluster Fudge problem with cars and trucks. If you twist off the bolt in the head and can't get it out, I have a few tricks that I have done over the years.

But again, the tricks to remove the bolt in this thread are on the 400 level and most of the service Techs never go beyond the 200 level.

I hope I am not too blunt.

Steve

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:33 pm

Quote:

To clarify the above - you are saying that with no other change than an EGR swap, you feel your idle quality improved?

Correct. The car idles better and appears to have a bit more power. I was able to clear the codes and they are staying off. Based upon my combination of codes (EGR and Underboost) people seem to think the EGR was stuck in the open position.....which would make sense based upon the kind of immediate improvements I saw after replacement....although based upon what I see of the old one there is not much carbon and it appears to be closed ....but I'm not sure I'm looking at the right thing

BIG trouble. EGR valve head bolt stripped

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