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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:55 pm 
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Working on modern vehicles require special tools for everything,nothing sucks more as a technician and having to dishout $200 for a special tool and only ever need it for one job :evil: .At least those air hammer clutch fan tool kit can be used on almost every newer vehicle.



many times at work i have seen techs buy a $100 wrench from snap on or mac only to turn around and cut it in half so they can break loose a hydraulic hose in a dozer [/quote]

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:08 am 
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Thank you!
These are all interesting, educational and useful tips.

* The problem I was having while trying to take off the clutch was that the wheel it was attached to kept spinning. Loric seems to have a decent suggestion for getting around that if I don't get the tools Ranger is suggesting....or that Turbo Tim is suggesting I "rent". (I've seen that done :lol: )

* I downloaded the shop manual today (all 6,059 pages!) and did find the special tools listed for this job. It was helpful, but the instructions for the job are lacking as they don't tell you the REAL story about what to expect and the problems that might be encountered. It's also not interactive so I can't ask it to clarify anything like I can here. Sorry guys, I still find ya'll a very useful supplement.

* My 05 CRD fan doesn't make any woosh sound like my wife's 06 CRD fan does. I've never noticed it before but when they are compared side by side, mine is far quieter and doesn't push much air. Therefore, I think it is safe to assume it is broken.

Quote:
many times at work i have seen techs buy a $100 wrench from snap on or mac only to turn around and cut it in half so they can break loose a hydraulic hose in a dozer

Well, see now that's just the thing: I am the type that might normally examine the need and then weld or grind or cut my own tools as needed....but I have not yet built a garage at my house so I work outside in the gravel and mud. I also rely on this car for a very long early morning commute in heavy traffic, and it has rained all summer so whatever work is required for this car (a hell of a lot apparently) I need to do it quickly and everything has to go well or I'm in trouble... :?

I've done some searches and not yet found anything.....but might there be a place I can get a viscous clutch for this beasty without resorting to the stealership?

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2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:30 pm 
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New viscous fan clutch:
$239 Special order from the stealer.
And boy do I ever feel special!

Anyone have one they might want to sell???

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:51 pm 
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First, get yours off and post the pic so we can try something........................

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:39 pm 
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Location: Rio Rancho, NM
KeighJeigh wrote:
New viscous fan clutch:
$239 Special order from the stealer.
And boy do I ever feel special!

Anyone have one they might want to sell???


$136.85 from moparpartsamerica.com

_________________
2005 CRD Limited
1.5/2.0 Daystar Lift
V6 Airbox
SEGR ala TurboTim
255/70/16 Big O on Rubis minor trimming required
87k+ miles=3 factory TC's, 2 front pumps, 1 turbo, & drivers side wheel bearing/hub
Suncoast TC and Transgo Snake oil-41k
New Front Drive shaft-30K
Stage 2 InMotion Tune-54k, makes me go :)
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:46 pm 
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LocoCRD wrote:
KeighJeigh wrote:
New viscous fan clutch:
$239 Special order from the stealer.
And boy do I ever feel special!

Anyone have one they might want to sell???


$136.85 from moparpartsamerica.com

Woa! 100 bucks difference?!
Thanks! Where do I send the check for your assistance in saving me that much?

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:51 pm 
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gmctd wrote:
First, get yours off and post the pic so we can try something........................


OK.
Dare I ask what you have in mind? :shock:

I just got my Mr. Saikou CCV can today too and was hoping to install it and yank the fan at the same time.....but unfortunately there is a violent storm outside and lightning just hit a tree near the house. (It's never hit that close before and the percussion nearly blew out the glass)

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock


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 Post subject: Explanation for price difference
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:13 pm 
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KeighJeigh wrote:
LocoCRD wrote:
KeighJeigh wrote:
New viscous fan clutch:
$239 Special order from the stealer.
And boy do I ever feel special!

Anyone have one they might want to sell???


$136.85 from moparpartsamerica.com

Woa! 100 bucks difference?!
Thanks! Where do I send the check for your assistance in saving me that much?


Some stealers sell way over list, some common causes:

1) Boat payments

2) Cocaine addiction

3) Child Support

4) Divorce settlement

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:31 pm 
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If the pic is clear and the clutch is compliant, we're gonna tweak the cut-in point downward, lower the temperature set-point

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:29 pm 
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gmctd wrote:
If the pic is clear and the clutch is compliant, we're gonna tweak the cut-in point downward, lower the temperature set-point

From what I could see of it looking at the front with an extended mirror: A coil spring thermostat, but no adjustment screw that I could see....
Our member "Blacksmoke" lives nearby and has agreed to come over and take a peak at it and compare against his 05. That is, if he can make it up my driveway. :twisted:

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:40 am 
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Screw? What adjusting screw? That is a coil, but not a spring - it is a bimetal strip that lengthens when temperature rises rotating the valve that redirects the silicone viscous fluid into the turbine, increasing hydraulic hookup, and voila! we got hurricane force wind - cut-in temperature usually be lowered by tweaking that coiled strip

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:40 am 
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Screw? What adjusting screw? That is a coil, but not a spring - it is a bimetal strip that lengthens when temperature rises rotating the valve that redirects the silicone viscous fluid into the turbine, increasing hydraulic hookup, and voila! we got hurricane force wind - cut-in temperature usually be lowered by tweaking that coiled strip

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:36 am 
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gmctd wrote:
Screw? What adjusting screw? That is a coil, but not a spring - it is a bimetal strip that lengthens when temperature rises rotating the valve that redirects the silicone viscous fluid into the turbine, increasing hydraulic hookup, and voila! we got hurricane force wind - cut-in temperature usually be lowered by tweaking that coiled strip


Yes, I misspoke: It just looks like a spring so I called it that, but is indeed a bimetallic coiled strip similar to the one in the wall thermostat. I have seen some coils in the past that allow you to adjust their rotation relative to the valve or switch they are affecting. This is because they are not always particularly accurate and depending upon the device, need to be calibrated. This one looks like it is just pressed into place & perhaps glued...its hard to tell with the tiny mirror.

In order to tweak the coil, one would first have to know which direction it turned the valve when heated. Thus an experiment would require heating it up to watch which direction it coiled - which is dependent upon which side of the strip is occupied by the more expansive metal. By the looks of it in the tiny mirror, if the outer diameter has the more expansive metal then the valve will turn counterclockwise when heated.

So, are you thinking of just bending the coil a bit so the valve engages sooner? That would work if there is nothing fundamentally wrong with the internal workings of the valve. But the 06 blows more air even when idling cool than mine does hot. I've never heard any roar from my radiator under any conditions.

But here is something else to ponder:

I have a witness!! Blacksmoke (Nice rig! Nice Roof lights! Nice SEGR!) was kind enough to brave the driveway and stand in the pouring rain with me this evening to compare all 3 rigs side by side. Of course, since it was dark, cool and rainy nothing overheated. His 05 has the identical amount of mechanical fan volume as mine. However, both are significantly LESS than the 06 which has never overheated.[/u] Blacksmoke did mention some overheating problems in the past. However, since he lives in the valley and drives mostly level areas, his rig is not stressed daily like mine is on the driveway so he may rarely see the same conditions. Blacksmoke has agreed to try the driveway again when (if) our normal August weather returns. The idea would be to follow each other up the driveway with the exact same conditions and see what happens. My guess: His will overheat too.

Something is definitely different between the fans.....but the serial number stamped on the front is the same on all. I wouldn't think they would make a change in the product form, fit or function from one year to the next and not change the serial number for tracking, so I'm guessing it is a quality defect that was present in some 05 models but not noticed very often because most people don't stress their cars. At least that is my own theory at this point.


Image

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock


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 Post subject: Ah Ha!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:20 am 
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You just may have determined unknowlingly why some 05 models get much better fuel mileage then the rest of us :!: For giggles, what are the odometer readings on the 3 crd's :?: And what are the build dates? My 06 was made in January of 06 and sounds like a tornado at idel and my high mpg figure was 25 once.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:24 am 
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Correct - outer strip has greatest coefficient of expansion, inner strip least - engage direction is in direction of coil - if CW coil, shaft turns CW - CCW for CCW - you can prove that when you remove the strip fromthe slot: rotate the coil, shaft will respond - in any event, remove the RTV, remove the coil strip end from the slot, rebend the strip closer to the end, use RTV to reanchor the end in the slot - so simple, a caveman could do it....................

Compare '06 shaft clock to '05 shaft clock.

Correct, Joe: less fan = greater fuel economy - for now we need to tune for low speed - or control electric fan manually

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:53 am 
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Location: Rio Rancho, NM
KeighJeigh wrote:
LocoCRD wrote:
KeighJeigh wrote:
New viscous fan clutch:
$239 Special order from the stealer.
And boy do I ever feel special!

Anyone have one they might want to sell???


$136.85 from moparpartsamerica.com

Woa! 100 bucks difference?!
Thanks! Where do I send the check for your assistance in saving me that much?


No Worries, glad to help a brother out.

_________________
2005 CRD Limited
1.5/2.0 Daystar Lift
V6 Airbox
SEGR ala TurboTim
255/70/16 Big O on Rubis minor trimming required
87k+ miles=3 factory TC's, 2 front pumps, 1 turbo, & drivers side wheel bearing/hub
Suncoast TC and Transgo Snake oil-41k
New Front Drive shaft-30K
Stage 2 InMotion Tune-54k, makes me go :)
B&M Tranny Cooler


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 Post subject: Stealer comes around
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:49 pm 
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:lol:
I called the dealer and told them I could get the same part for $136 + $10 shipping. He then told me it was probably an inferior part. I then told him it was coming from the exact same warehouse on the East Coast through a dealer in Portland (Moparpartamerica). He hummed and hawed and brought the price down to $159. Then I asked him why they couldn't match other's prices and perhaps I should encourage everyone to deal with the Portland company. More humming and hawing...and then, clearly irritated he told me he would match the price at $146!! Can you friggin' believe that?! They were squeezing me for a hundred bucks for what should have been a warranty item since it was acting this way before the warranty ran out! "Stealer" is absolutely the correct name for them.

Joe: The 06 has 34K, My 05 has 37K and Blacksmoke's has 65K - not sure of the build dates.

I noted that all the fan clutches have the same part number so it would not matter if I ordered the 06 or the 05 replacement: 55037733AD

Perhaps we should conduct a survey to find out which build dates have the weak fan clutch (or, as GMCTD suggests, a different coil setting).

Quote:
Correct, Joe: less fan = greater fuel economy - for now we need to tune for low speed - or control electric fan manually

Yes, but my electric fan is on a lot but it doesn't seem to help much with this. Perhaps a much larger electric fan with an override switch would help. Any ideas on some that might fit in place of the current electric fan?

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:21 pm 
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KeighJeigh wrote:
Something is definitely different between the fans.....but the serial number stamped on the front is the same on all. I wouldn't think they would make a change in the product form, fit or function from one year to the next and not change the serial number for tracking, so I'm guessing it is a quality defect that was present in some 05 models but not noticed very often because most people don't stress their cars. At least that is my own theory at this point.


I you go waaay back in time in this section you will find evidence to support this. Some 05's had the fan's replaced in a TSB, due to "a bad batch" of fans. Maybe some are still at large. Old overheating threads talk about this and discuss that for some the TSB that flashed the dash worked, for others-- they were overheating for real and needed a new fan to fix the issues.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:57 pm 
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Pablo wrote:
KeighJeigh wrote:
Something is definitely different between the fans.....but the serial number stamped on the front is the same on all. I wouldn't think they would make a change in the product form, fit or function from one year to the next and not change the serial number for tracking, so I'm guessing it is a quality defect that was present in some 05 models but not noticed very often because most people don't stress their cars. At least that is my own theory at this point.


I you go waaay back in time in this section you will find evidence to support this. Some 05's had the fan's replaced in a TSB, due to "a bad batch" of fans. Maybe some are still at large. Old overheating threads talk about this and discuss that for some the TSB that flashed the dash worked, for others-- they were overheating for real and needed a new fan to fix the issues.


Aha! Well there ya have it then. And it makes sense. I have Googled this topic fairly extensively and found this particular brand of overheating associated with the CRD discussed numerous times - usually with the same level of perplexity followed by resignation that it's "just a Jeep thing" so deal with it. Part of the difficulty for me was that - although I'm sure it happens - I have never heard of a viscous fan going bad and it has never happened to me. There just isn't much inside to go bad. A manufacturing defect would make more sense - and be more in line with the long list of other manufacturing defects I am running into. (next up, the alternator pulley clutch yeah!)

GMCTD, if I swap this thing out with a new one, I'll take a look at them side by side and see what I can see. I'd also be glad to send it to you if you wanted to perform a more thorough forensic testing on thermostat settings, valve engagement etc...

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:38 pm 
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Compare the two for number of turns in the coil and center shaft clocking, which would be the position of the slot that anchors the thermal strip coil - the greater the offset from vertical, the lower the cut-in temperature - we could set it for 180deg, but that would be very noisy, and eat up fuel economy - check out ebay for Envoy Electric Fan Clutch - it's a GM experiment, similar to the new Dodge Cummins with the electric clutch - if the clutch nut dia\thread pitch is same as the Jeep, problem solved: flip a switch when ya need fan - can be wired for thermostat control, also

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go


Top
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