Air Filter: K&N or Paper?

mackruss · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:21 pm

gmctd wrote:

Oil is used so as to be dense enuff to cling to the mesh at full air flow - can use a thicker oil, which further reduces airflow: already problem is the restricted frontal area of the KJ filter - I use NAPA Gold paper-element filters, which is a premium WIX filter

Fleetguard manufactures filters from paper and synthetics - the item in my sig is the Cummins fuel filter, as used on the Dodge Rams - pics in several of my threads in CRD TECH

What was the reason then for the V6 airbox mod that some members have done if the filters are identical?

UFO · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:26 pm

mackruss wrote:

gmctd wrote:

Oil is used so as to be dense enuff to cling to the mesh at full air flow - can use a thicker oil, which further reduces airflow: already problem is the restricted frontal area of the KJ filter - I use NAPA Gold paper-element filters, which is a premium WIX filter

Fleetguard manufactures filters from paper and synthetics - the item in my sig is the Cummins fuel filter, as used on the Dodge Rams - pics in several of my threads in CRD TECH

What was the reason then for the V6 airbox mod that some members have done if the filters are identical?

V6 inlet is bigger and doesn't get as much water inside.

mackruss · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:32 pm

UFO wrote:

mackruss wrote:

gmctd wrote:

Oil is used so as to be dense enuff to cling to the mesh at full air flow - can use a thicker oil, which further reduces airflow: already problem is the restricted frontal area of the KJ filter - I use NAPA Gold paper-element filters, which is a premium WIX filter

Fleetguard manufactures filters from paper and synthetics - the item in my sig is the Cummins fuel filter, as used on the Dodge Rams - pics in several of my threads in CRD TECH

What was the reason then for the V6 airbox mod that some members have done if the filters are identical?

V6 inlet is bigger and doesn't get as much water inside.

The bigger inlet would allow an increase in the airflow until it hits the air filter
and then the same volume of air will be allowed to pass through depending on the type of filter being used irrespective of the design of the V6 box.

This is all confusing but i can understand the snorkel effect though, this is one mod i don't think i would consider, but that's me.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:38 pm

Just to get off track - I've had an air though oil filter before - stock on my 65 Corvair
They still use them on Tractors - pretty effective - but messy

I think this one's from a 54 Old's

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:47 pm

The CRD inlet is directly behind the grille, such that forward movement in wet conditions allows direct moisture intake, which can soak the filter element - the V6 inlet, above the grille, has two 90* bends, allowing simple centrifugal filtration: moving objects tend to seek a straight-line path, resisting diversion - air readily navigates the turns - denser H2O cannot - keeps the filter drier in inclement weather

mackruss · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:51 pm

gmctd wrote:

The CRD inlet is directly behind the grille, such that forward movement in wet conditions allows direct moisture intake, which can soak the filter element - the V6 inlet, above the grille, has two 90* bends, allowing simple centrigfugal filtration: moving objects tend to seek a straight-line path, resisting diversion - keeps the filter drier in inclement weather

Hasn't somebody done a mod to his inlet and re-routed from the grill to the way the V6 inlet operates on this forum using pvc pipes?

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:58 pm

someone did do a PVC pipe with holes - most folks just swapped in a v6 airbox.

long_tall_texan · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:10 pm

JJsKJ wrote:

ummm....He is in Africa.....not sure If I can swing that or not. But I would be willing to look into it. Be best if a few folks wanted to get in on it. I sent an order to Spain that way a while back.

Oops. Sorry. I forgot where he was...

mackruss wrote:

Hasn't somebody done a mod to his inlet and re-routed from the grill to the way the V6 inlet operates on this forum using pvc pipes?

Yes, I did this: Intake Pics

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:18 pm

before you got to play RFCRD did this

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=97796#97796

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:21 pm

That's as I remember it, ATXKJ - even lawnmowers and scooters had those oiled-mesh filters, and my dad insisted that they be serviced regularly, along with regular oil changes ('course, we invariably ran the scooters open-airhorn) - much as I already hated mowing the grass, then to have to deal with that messy contraption - still don't even like manually packing wheel bearings with the greasy-palm method............

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:26 pm

Yeah - but the grease in palm packing is a lot better than cleaning up the mess after someone decides that all they really have to do is put grease on the outside.

although Chrysler in it's infinite wisdom has decided we're not allow to grease bearings anyway.

aandlwoods · **Joined:** Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:53 pm **Posts:** 96

With all these K&N's going up for sale i might have to watch my back... make sure the company doesnt come and snipe me out for starting this thread...

tonycrd · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:48 pm

JJsKJ wrote:

ummm....He is in Africa.....not sure If I can swing that or not. But I would be willing to look into it. Be best if a few folks wanted to get in on it. I sent an order to Spain that way a while back.

Yep and we are loving them, I just checked mine after 15K (kilometers) and it's in great shape. Thanks for sending them JJ!

mackruss · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:56 am

aandlwoods wrote:

With all these K&N's going up for sale i might have to watch my back... make sure the company doesnt come and snipe me out for starting this thread...

It's too late mate, K&N are totally p!ssed off with you. They sent me an e-mail wanting my delivery address and they said that they were going to send me there new filter which is non -oiled but uses a polymer instead to try in SA due to the dusty and polluted nature of our atmosphere.

mackruss · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:29 am

Some research on this topic of filters led me to believe that only stats of tests conducted of the various brands and types of filters would give me piece of mind.

Read this if you want to and you make up your own mind. As far as i'm concerned the OEM paper filter works and that's that for me..

Something important to remember is that motor car manufacturers would not use filters that are restrictive as we know that a restricted filter would increase the emissions and that they would not want now would they.

http://home.stny.rr.com/jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

gmctd · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:38 pm

Interesting to note, here, that, several issues back, DIESEL POWER-ads magazine did similar testing on a CRD Dodge 5.9L Cummins TD on a chassis dyno, comparing oem stock airbox filtration\airflow to aftermarket pitch-the-airbox-and-expose-our-coney-round-filter-to-underhood-heat-and-dirt units, with exception that the oem airbox also flowed much better than any exposed aftermarket unit at all power levels, providing cooler, denser air to the turbo compressor inlet - may be a few dummies in the engineering department, but somebody has to plug the numbers in and xerox the reports, since mgmnt laid-off all the secretaries.....................

UFO · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:15 pm

mackruss wrote:

Some research on this topic of filters led me to believe that only stats of tests conducted of the various brands and types of filters would give me piece of mind.

Read this if you want to and you make up your own mind. As far as i'm concerned the OEM paper filter works and that's that for me..

Something important to remember is that motor car manufacturers would not use filters that are restrictive as we know that a restricted filter would increase the emissions and that they would not want now would they.

http://home.stny.rr.com/jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

That's a very interesting study, and explains a lot. I'm definitely never using a K&N on a street vehicle, especially on a diesel.

mackruss · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:49 pm

UFO wrote:

mackruss wrote:

Some research on this topic of filters led me to believe that only stats of tests conducted of the various brands and types of filters would give me piece of mind.

Read this if you want to and you make up your own mind. As far as i'm concerned the OEM paper filter works and that's that for me..

Something important to remember is that motor car manufacturers would not use filters that are restrictive as we know that a restricted filter would increase the emissions and that they would not want now would they.

http://home.stny.rr.com/jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

That's a very interesting study, and explains a lot. I'm definitely never using a K&N on a street vehicle, especially on a diesel.

Careful what you say or you'll get bumped off as well. I'm a bit further from California, at least i think that's where they from :wink:

onthehunt · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:07 pm

For what it's worth, I used a AFE Proguard-7 air filter for an oil change cycle. The uoa came back normal. Silicon was unchanged. The filter worked.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:40 pm

This test echos what I have pointed out many times about airflow in relation to stock or close to stock engines. I love this statement by the test organizer "if a filter is using "better airflow" as their marketing tool, remember this....Does it flow better? At very high airflow volumes, probably. BUT, Our trucks CAN'T flow that much air unless super-modified, so what is the point? The stock filter will flow MORE THAN ENOUGH AIR to give you ALL THE HORSEPOWER the engine has to give".

Air Filter: K&N or Paper?

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