Is there a wastegate actuator that can be adjusted on the turbo and not via ECU to increase the boost.

_________________
06 CRD LTD ( Euro )

No. The 2.8L has a VGT booster and does not require a wastegate. The easiest way to raise the boost is by altering the MAP signal with a tuner box.

_________________
Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

If boost is excessive, what happens?

_________________
06 CRD LTD ( Euro )

You look for a replacement engine I think MrMopar indicated the cylinder head is the first to go

_________________
Atlantic Blue 06 CRD Limited (his)
Joined by a 2000 XJ Classic (hers)

That would be the Mopar V8 engine then, no turbo problems just brute power

_________________
06 CRD LTD ( Euro )

Things POP!
In a properly functioning VGT compressor there cannot be excessive boost because the ECU is constantly monitoring and altering the vane angle in the turbine housing. That however does not mean that it cannot malfunction. If the vanes stick there could be a momentary spike in pressure until the ECU decreases fueling but it would not likely be enough to burst a hose or intercooler. Of course, Wastegated systems can also malfunction and often do, with stuck wastegates and burst hoses.

_________________
Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

Well, alrighty, then - at this point, I would be extremely remiss in not stepping in here with critical information - and, I'm gonna be extremely blunt and harsh in order to get these points across and accepted:

I can tell from your posts that you are extremely Diesel illiterate, having zero idea of basic Diesel engine function, and it sorta appears that you may be listening to some self-proclaimed 'engine ex-spurt', equally knowledgeable - unless you wanna be the latest inductee into the wild and wunnerful world of the bone-headed Diesel Idiot, you should bone up on whut it is, whut it be, and whut do be happenin' with your engine.

If I were in a position to be able to force you to do the following, I would do so without reservation, so, in short, and to wit:

Surf on over to the Gale Banks website, and infest yerself with Diesel Knowledge, professionally collated and presented by a well-known college-educated retired NASCAR driver\owner, as employed by the Banks organization to spearhead their hi-perf Diesel program - yer brain is a terrible thing to waste, even moreso a Diesel engine

bankspower.com/tech.cfm

Then, #2, and by no means least, install a functional Boost guage on yer KJ today, right now, soon as you (and yer ex-spurt buddy) are done rejecting this info - you're likely to be dumbfounded by the level of oem Boost already available on yer stock KJ - no need to 'turn up' a non-existant wastegate control to increase Boost - which would be an engine-killer if you could do so, and if it weren't for the Walt Disney ducting and plastic-on-aluminum charge-air cooler construction intended to vent excesses

Also, there is considerable design and operational difference in Variable Vane Technology, which we don't got, and Variable Geometry Technology turbochargers, of which we got one of - and not even to mention the vast differences of the wastegated flavors

So, now for #1, which is of supreme importance, install a functional Exhaust Gas Temperature guage with it's probe in the exhaust system near the turbo - pre is way better than post - being currently amongst the rank and file of the Diesel unknowledgeable, you'll have no idea of the function and importance of this device (or you'd already have one installed, by now), but it represents the life of your Diesel engine, crucial to understanding what is happening internally before, during, and after the combustion process - ignore it's warnings, and your goose is cooked, to include melted pistons, galled cylinders, and in this engine, possibility of melted cylinder head, all included on yer cremated fowl menu - imagine how much moreso, then, by not having any warnings to ignore

It is high EGT's that quickly kill a Diesel engine, particularly if the Engine Coolant system is incapable of absorbing and dissipating the elevated btu's resulting from high cylinder temps, from whence come high EGT's - 1200* sustained are not harmful, if the coolant system can handle the input - if not, you done killed yer engine - and excessive, or even high sustained, Boost quickly causes high EGT's - you need to know high vs excess Boost, and high vs excessively high EGT levels - which you cannot possibly know without instrumentation to monitor those points - git'erdone!!

So, now is the time to install instrumentation, B4 you start blindly messin' around in the ECM - you need to know what the oem stock levels are and how ECM manages them in order to understand how you can safely change parameters which will alter those levels

I can think of no other way to reinforce these advisory admonishments - if you were to read my posts on any of the other forums I tend to haunt, you would see the same recommendations: instrumentation B4 experimentation, guages B4 upgrading - Liberty B4 death - if you choose not to heed these, then place a wreath on the hood of yer KJ, as a token of my condolences

Word up, dude..................

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go

Well, GM, since all of us 'ex-spurts" are being harsh and blunt, lets clear some things up.
A VVT (variable vane) charger is a VGT (varible geometry) charger. VGT is the generic term for the whole range of different trademarks such an VNT tm (variable nozzle), AVNT tm (Advanced variable nozzle), and Multivane tm, all used by Honneywell/Garret. Other names for the same idea are ViGT tm (Variable induction geometry turbo) and VAR tm (variable aspect ratio turbo). They all use vanes to alter the geometry of the turbo housing. There are some other designs that vary the nozzle width with sliding vanes instead of rotating vanes, but still use vanes and fall under the VGT class of turbos, but they are not seen in modern light vehicles

Sorry, but Variable Vane technology and variable geometry technology is one and the same and it is what we got.

http://www.honeywell.com/sites/ts/tt/tu ... Tworks.htm
more here http://www.autozine.org/technical_schoo ... gine_3.htm
Nice pics here http://paultan.org/archives/2006/08/16/ ... etry-work/
better one here http://www.autozine.org/technical_schoo ... gine_3.htm
video of it here http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Vari ... 191918.htm
Detailed description here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_g ... rbocharger

Also sorry for the correction here, but increased boost does NOT cause high EGT's. Increased fueling raises the EGT's and they are lowered by increasing airflow with more boost. here is where you may "infest yerself" with diesel knowledge about EGT's direct from Gale Banks' mouth http://bankspower.com/techarticles/show ... -important . Of course there is also a reasonable limit to how much compression our CRD engine can handle because of component strength but it is probably beyond what our small compressors are capable of. While I am all for installing EGT gauges if one is planning on dramatically altering the fueling, only the most extreme tunning boxes are capable of raising the EGT's to a dangerous level, and gauges are unneeded unless heavy towing is planned.

_________________
Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

Hey - great links
thanks

_________________
2005 CRD
stuff
Skeptic quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

Well, between the two of you there is some good info.

The only thing I see in true conflict is the EGT Guage requirement. One says you need it first and the other says you don't; yet in the rebuttal, the link to Gale Banks clearly states that an EGT is paramount to see what any turbo is doing whether it is stock or modified. Without the EGT, you really do not know exactly what is going on fast enough to take action. Watching EGT temps can also help you gain mpg...by keeping EGT temps them as low as you can, meaning less fueling, you can gain mpg.

The key word is "variable". Whether it is the inlet size, moveable blades or changing nozzle opening...they all accomplish the same thing. Quicker spooling at slower exhaust speeds and more power at faster exhaust speeds.

NO NAME CALLING...NO SARCASM...

_________________
Founder of L.O.S.T.
2006 CRD Sport
Mods: GDE Hot Tune w/ 364#@2000rpm/Air Box /3" Str8 Exhaust/ASFIR Alum Skids/245-75R-16 Cooper STT PRO/OME LIFT w/Clevis & 4 Spring Isos/AirTabs/Rigid 10" S2 LED/4xGuard Ctr Matrix Bumper
Drag Strip:Reac=.1078_60ft=2.224_1/8=10.39@64.8mph_1/4+16.46@80.8mph

Ok, I agree - altering the inner shape of the turbine snail comes under VGT, and similar has been tried with the compressor - Variable Vane Tech was the first, back in the '80's, and while Cummins uses the sliding vane method, likely our turbo is variable vane, and is referred to as, iirc, Variable Nozzle Tech - I took pics when I had it apart, but cannot find them anywhere, and the details have unfortunately slipped my mind, altho the rotary axial action points to variable vane, where sliding vane would require linear action.

Also, as we both know, fuel makes Boost, not vise versa as per the accepted myth, tho, for damage control, I didn't want to get into this at this juncture - thus, the generally obscure syntax - where Boost can be increased without increasing fuel indicates ECM is limiting Boost at various fuelrates in order to protect the engine, and this is good, as it keeps unmonitored EGT's within acceptable ranges - whenever someone defeats this limitation while looking for more power, they defeat ECM's capability to safely manage power development while maintaining safe EGT's - which means that when fuel is increased, unmanaged Boost responds uncontrollably, with probability of damaging EGT's and possibility of turbine overspeed and disintegration - minimally, the compressor would be way outside it's map, becoming very inefficient and creating more compression heat than the system was designed to handle - so, uninformed increasing of Boost by removing ECM control often results in damaging EGT's - this scenario can be observed to play itself out daily all over the various forums - 'education' includes knowledge of the engine\system, initial installation of EGT and Boost guages to enable manual control, and solemn recognition that 'more is not always better' - that last being the most difficult thing to learn, particularly when being 'advised' by an 'ex-spurt' local to the poster, but not a functional member of any Diesel forum(s)

My tongue-in-cheek rec to a Diesel-noob was to expose oneself (mentally, not physically!) to the info at Banks, install the guages, observe monitored results for a while, accept the newly-learned principles previously exposed to at Banks, and proceed with caution

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go

Moderators, as the author of this post, please delete it before it causes any animosity.

This is a bit below the belt now thanks.

_________________
06 CRD LTD ( Euro )

I don't see the need for that, there is good info in this thread and a bit of firm discussion is ok by me.

_________________
Cherokee 2,5 CRD: sold - Wrangler TJ 2.5: gone - Touareg V10 TDI: new toy

Solo Liberty en Español: Jeepliberty.es

I'm seeing most of the disagreement resolved here, and this is some great information. The typical failure in turbo diesel modification I see is a failure to recognize how different a diesel engine and it's control are from a gasser (patooie ) If you have no smoke, adding boost will not generate more power -- it will in a gasser because fuel is always added in proportion to air due to the necessity of maintaining a safe fuel ratio -- too lean and it goes KABLOOIE! In a diesel the fueling is done with less regard to the airflow. Just make sure there is enough air to burn all the fuel. I know because I've been there, turbo gassers first and now diesels.

What is true in both engines is temperatures must be managed. Temperature is the ultimate killer of any engine.

_________________
'05 Liberty CRD B100, SEGR - SOLD

'01 Beetle TDi B100, EGR delete
'83 Mercedes 240D B100, no EGR

--- SEGR Builder ---

I do not feel any animosity at all and hope that GM does not harbor any either. One thing I don't endorse is any kind of name calling but I certainly don't see that here. I love a good challenging question which gets my brain functioning and researching the possible outcomes, as well as refreshing my own understanding of engine theory. We all need to use our own common sense and take from these style of discussions what we feel is applicable to our own situation. I can't speak for everyone but I benefit from being proved wrong in any of my own statements because it teaches me new things and keeps me humble.

_________________
Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

I think GM's response and reference to my " buddy " was a bit of a low blow but then cowboys don't cry, no sireee.

BTW GM, my "buddy " consults directly with Gale Banks as a mechanical engineer and is respsonsible for the development of turbo and superchargers for some of the big name brands in SA. My question pertaining to the wastegate was purely from my ignorance and not his, but then i'm an illiterate diesel noob without any diesel mechanical knowledge aint I - Dude.

_________________
06 CRD LTD ( Euro )

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=37998

For those who may be scratchin' their collective heads as to why I ran my team onto the playing field in full offensive formation in this instance of potentially fatal error, take note of the above-linked thread and the fatal error, therein - intent here was not to offend, but to grab the soul and rock the world of the potential repeat offender

Tremendous info has been posted on this forum about the CCV system, with pics and description and theory of operation, by oldnavy, retmil46, and others, incl gmctd - Provent inclusive, a number of threads have spun-off on this emissions system, incl the danger of becoming plugged up, stopped up, non-functional, where crankcase pressure skyrockets, seeking egress at the next point of least resistance, that point(s) being crankshaft mainseals, camshaft seals, aluminum engine cover seals, with potential of blowing entire load of sump oil out, damaging the engine.

For someone to completely ignore that posted information, any information, and actually put a plug in the CCV puck is bad enuff - it assumes an order of magnitude greater error when someone else, equally unknowledgeable, follows his lead and immediately jumps on the road to ruin and perdition, as illustrated in the above ^ linked thread

Fortunately, that puck was soon re-opened and the fatal error was revealed, that failure being that the plugged puck was already full of oil at low-accrued mileage within several days period from the install - had that check not been done, Mackruss's and aandlwoods' engines could have self-destructed from loss of oil thru the seals

And, it gets worse

The really big problem is that there are many KJ CRD owners out there that read this forum and never post, and who, seeking a cheap fix, may also have followed those uninformed Diesel-illiterate instructions

Scenario: now, supposing an owner, having installed that fatally flawed "fix", then attaches his 5000lb trailer and sets off across country - his "fixed" puck would fail much quicker as the mileage accumulates because of the increased blowby due to the load - of course, not being on-forum, and being that he would not have any inkling that he should stop to check the "fix", now he's standing in some DCJ dealer's service bay, piston rods protruding from the side of the block, with the Service Manager heatedly explaining that engine failure resulting from owner-installed 'fix'es are definitely not covered under any warranty that he's aware of, Magnuson act notwithstanding.

Who would be willing to accept responsibility at that stage - anybody here, anyone we know?

I think: not.

Therefore, responsibility for posted info (and not posting misinfo) must be accepted by the poster - some awareness of Diesel engine theory and concept of installed equipment and accessories and modifications go a long way in preventing those types of misinformational posts with potential of subsequential damage - that point would be my entire intent in these responses

Do yer homework, kiddies!

That's my story, folks, and I'm stickin' to it.........................

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go

All is good here...we are all diesel nuts and well oiled so the infrequent unsavory comments just slide off most of us...but we are a bunch of tech nerds sometimes and get caught up in semantics and "exacts". I too think there is some great stuff for others to read in this thread...

_________________
Founder of L.O.S.T.
2006 CRD Sport
Mods: GDE Hot Tune w/ 364#@2000rpm/Air Box /3" Str8 Exhaust/ASFIR Alum Skids/245-75R-16 Cooper STT PRO/OME LIFT w/Clevis & 4 Spring Isos/AirTabs/Rigid 10" S2 LED/4xGuard Ctr Matrix Bumper
Drag Strip:Reac=.1078_60ft=2.224_1/8=10.39@64.8mph_1/4+16.46@80.8mph

This is nothing Just look in the "General" section about weather a 1979 Wagoneer is "Grand" or not

_________________
Atlantic Blue 06 CRD Limited (his)
Joined by a 2000 XJ Classic (hers)

On a side note, the older 2.8 and 2.5 engines did not have a volumetric turbo and so you can fiddle with the waste gate.

But as Mr. Mopar told me: If you do (overboost) the boost sensor will throw things in limp mode right away.

Asked about fitting a 2.8 turbo on my 2.5, that doesn't help much. See above...

_________________
Cherokee 2,5 CRD: sold - Wrangler TJ 2.5: gone - Touareg V10 TDI: new toy

Solo Liberty en Español: Jeepliberty.es