CRD #1 fixed, CRD #2 dead on the side of the road

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:37 am

Now that I just finished fixing the alternator pulley on broken CRD #1, broken CRD #2 is stuck on the side of a dark road 2 miles from home.

After test driving it earlier, I determined it had a clogged fuel filter.

* To keep the fuel as much in place as possible, I clamped off both the inlet and outlet hoses to the fuel manager before removing it.
* I cleaned out the fuel manager filled the new filter with diesel and put it all back together.
* I used the stupid plastic toy plunger on the side of the fuel manager in an attempt to purge as much air as possible from the system. I was only able to produce teeny tiny little burps of air - so I worked it for 10 minutes. But the button never firmed up.
* I decided to start it anyway and low and behold it started right up. I let it idle for 5 minutes and continued to work the plunger and bleed off tiny bits of air - but still, it didn't firm up. Since it appeared to be running OK, with bleeder wrench in hand silly me decided to test drive it. Once on the darkest section of road possible, it bogged down and quit. Completely dead. So, I hopped out and started plunging. And plunging. And plunging. But the burps of air seemed to get smaller and smaller until I got no air coming out anymore. (I bleed it just like a brake line: Pump, hold, crack valve, close. Repeat a billion times. It worked on CRD#1 before I got the lift pump so I know I'm doing it right.)

I cranked the engine as long as I dared without frying the starter but have not heard so much as a single piston fire.

So, there it sits. I can't afford to take it to the stealer so whatever happens will happen on the side of the road - through the night if need be.

These are the only things I can think of but I don't know the inner workings of the fuel manager to know if these are reasonable possibilities:

* If there is a one-way valve in the manager, perhaps it is stuck open allowing fuel to drain back down to the tank. This would also keep the plunger from firming up because plunging it would only push fuel backward. Problem with that theory: It shouldn't have quit in the first place.
* Perhaps the plunger itself is broken. Problem: It shouldn't have quit in the first place.
* Perhaps there is just a big-ass air pocket that isn't moving through. Problem: If that is all it is, I should be at least getting some purging from the plunger.
* Multiple problems including air leak, broken plunger, air bubble - all of which magically occurred at the same time. Problem: Well, given the ongoing lengthy list of quality problems, I suppose that is actually a probable scenario.
* ? ?

Emergency measures I will take tonight to try and get it to run:

* Remove the fuel manager, take it home and examine it for problems. I don't anticipate seeing anything but who knows - at least I'll stay warm for another hour.
* If I don't see any fuel in the inlet fuel line I can probably assume it isn't being pulled up for whatever reason. So, maybe I can rig up some sort of vacuum to pull from the outlet of the fuel manager. I don't have any vacuum except a shop vac so perhaps I'll cart my generator down there to supply electricity for the shop vac, duct tape a small tube onto the vacuum hose and give it a shot. The thing is, I assume the car should be doing this already when I try to start it...but who knows.....meanwhile...
* Perhaps I'll rig a small tube from CRD#1 bleeder valve to CRD#2 bleeder valve and run the lift pump from CRD#1 to help prime and purge CRD#2s fuel manager. Perhaps I could even get CRD#2 started essentially using fuel pumped from CRD#1. (Although without running CRD#1, the lift pump only operates 20 seconds before shutting off)
* Perhaps someone on this forum knows what the issue is and has an ingenious method for getting this thing started again!!

I'm about at the end of my rope....

Suggestions???

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:30 am

I don't know if it would help, but i would pre fill the fuel filter with something like diesel 911 so that if your lines are gelled up, they will un-gel. also a little trick we use at work is to take and start the engine on ether. On some machines, they just will not fire even after they have been primed, but a little shot of ether allow the engine to run momentarily and allows it to self bleed the air out of the head and or injector...

good luck

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:52 am

Diggerfreek wrote:

I don't know if it would help, but i would pre fill the fuel filter with something like diesel 911 so that if your lines are gelled up, they will un-gel. also a little trick we use at work is to take and start the engine on ether. On some machines, they just will not fire even after they have been primed, but a little shot of ether allow the engine to run momentarily and allows it to self bleed the air out of the head and or injector...
good luck

Good suggestions - thank you.

In this case I did pre-fill the filter although I didn't put 911 because there was already a bit of anti-gel in the tank. It is also quite a bit warmer now than it was last month when there were no problems.

The thing was actually warm and had been idling for a while before I test drove it so I figured it had bled through OK.

---------------

Silverdiesel · **Posted:** Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:14 am

KeighJeigh You have the darnest luck with your CRD's!!
My mental mechanical skills are being beamed to as I write to better help you in your plights. And may your luck change - you deserve it.

As a suggestion sir invest in a mighty vac vacuum tool. With its included gauge one can tell if an air leak in the lines is going on. I never trusted those DC fuel manager sissy push pumps.
I still have luck on my side as I am still without a lift pump at 61K miles. But it is on my list.

Again Good Luck!

Roland

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:25 am

Well, I got it back home.

The "fuel jump start" actually worked! I strung a tube from the fuel line of CRD#1 - which has a Kennedy lift pump - to the fuel manager inlet of CRD#2 and purged the hell out of it. I then actually started it and ran it off CRD#1s fuel tank. I had to sit and toggle the ignition in #1 to keep the fuel pump running but I wanted to make sure #2 was fully warm and give it a chance to charge the battery back up a bit.

I then poured a bunch of fuel down the fuel line back to the tank to make sure it was full and filled the fuel line going to the engine to make sure it was full. It started again and I was able to drive it home - and then jog 2 miles back and get #1. (Its 2 am - nobody is going to drive me around)

One thing I noticed during my screwing around with it: If there is supposed to be a check valve anywhere in this system, it doesn't work. With both the inlet and outlet of the fuel manager unplugged, the stupid little plastic toy plunger appeared to push fuel out both. This means it may have been pushing fuel back into the tank. And after letting the thing idle for 20 it never did firm up purge anymore.

One thing for sure: CRD#2 is getting a lift pump. None of this would have been an issue had it been there.

-------------------------------

HOWEVER! Are you ready for this? This is now getting so ridiculous I wouldn't be surprise if people think I'm making this up: On the way up the driveway I decided to put #2 in low range so that I could crawl up without having to give it much pedal. Thus, if it so happened I was only running on the fuel I had just primed into it, I still might make it home on the last thimble of fuel left. So, I stopped, put it into neutral and pulled the lever into low - and POP! the lever breaks!! Yep, the POS made it back home but is now permanently stuck in low gear!! :lol:

God only knows what the hell this next round is going to cost me in time or money - and I'm still not sure what is wrong with the fuel manager - but I give up for the night. :roll:

My fuel jump start. BTW, This tube also lets you blow through the lines to make sure nothing is blocking them:

[/img]

chrispitude · **Posted:** Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:52 am

Geez Chris, I really feel for you. I thought my roomie from college had the worst luck with vehicles, but this takes the cake.

Did you recently play the lottery? ...perhaps with the numbers "4 8 15 16 23 42"?

- Chris

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Chris you proved that necessity really is the mother of invention. What a great idea, fueling a leaky CRD from a lift pump on the other CRD. You are demonstrating some real ingenuity right in the middle of a frustrating situation.

Ditto on the MightyVac idea - it can be a lifesaver.

Unless your saying the lever itself is broken, your Transfer Case lever cable might have come loose down on the TC itself. The cable end where it connects to the actuator on the TC underneath the vehicle is known to come loose, often at the worst possible time. At least I'm hoping for you that's what it is.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:23 pm

Chris: Since your Wife's 06 is stock as stated in your thread, it has no lift pump. Since you live up a steep grade the CP3 has to suck 3 to 4 times harder than when level to get fuel past the filter and into the pump. A small bubble from a vacuum leak that would normally just flow through the fuel system and not be noticed. Since you live around mountains and not in the flat lands the tank is much lower when you go up hill to your house. You can fight the air leak until you get it fixed or install a lift pump.

You can not believe how many Engineers wit PE after their names can not get it through their heads when it comes to sewer plants.

Steve

ChesterCRD · **Posted:** Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:03 pm

KeighJeigh, If that was your 4wd shifter that broke, it may similar to what happened to mine during hurricane Faye last summer. The end of the cable has an eyelet that goes around a pin in a lever on the side of the transfer case. The eyelet is held on the pin by a piece of plastic that I could not find. The dealer would only sell me the whole shifter cable assembly, which includes the lever you pull inside the vehicle, all the way back to the eyelet. I bought one, so I could look at it and it's on a shelf in my garage. If yours broke on the end like mine and you want a pic let me know.

I fixed mine using two windshield wiper bushings from the misc plastic parts isle at my local auto parts emporium. I used a medium sized one inside the eyelet, and then PUSHED REALLY F'ING hard to to get a small over the end of the pin to lock it all in place. I check it every oil change and so far it's held. If this is your problem, you can also just put the eyelet loosely over the pin and shift it in your driveway into 2WD so you can get around the mean time.

Good luck. I'm off to poke at my alternator with a big screw driver.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:45 pm

Chris, I had the same problem on mine way back when I still had the factory fuel filter head on it.

I ended up getting a crappy tank of fuel, so full of garbage that it clogged up not only the New Holland filter I'd switched over to, but the Cat 2 micron downstream of it as well. I posted pics on here at the time of all the black gunk I got out of those filters.

When I tried repriming the system after swapping out the filters, I couldn't get the hand primer pump to do anything. I stoked it until I was blue in the face - some of the crud from the bad fuel had become lodged under the check valve on the outlet of the primer pump, such that it wouldn't seal, and therefore the primer couldn't pull a suction on the fuel tank or develop any pressure in the fuel filter itself.

Not having a vacuum pump, I put a piece of hose over the bleed fitting, and "manually" sucked fuel up into the fuel filter. That's where I learned that #2 diesel tastes just like castor oil. :lol:

I managed to get enough fuel up into the filter head, such that working the primer pump again, I managed to flush the crud out of the check valve and the primer pump started working again.

Since you've already "flushed" the fuel filter head, hooking up to the inlet side and supplying fuel from your other vehicle, could be you've already flushed the offending material out of the primer pump and check valve such that it would work normally now.

You can do a quick test - leave the bleed screw shut tight, and just work the primer pump. If it firms up and gets hard after a half-dozen strokes or so, your primer pump is working and you've already cured your problem.

That was inventive, cross-connecting the fuel systems between the two vehicles. You didn't happen to spend some time in the Navy, working in submarine enginerooms did you? Sounds like some of the stuff we had to come up with when underway to keep equipment running and stay out on patrol. :wink:

bigugly · **Posted:** Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:26 pm

when you have the time and money I would recommend switching the fuel manager heads on both your CRD's to a Racor. I have not had an issue since I switched mine over to the Racor and it bolts right on to the stock studs.

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:38 pm

chrispitude wrote:

Did you recently play the lottery? ...perhaps with the numbers "4 8 15 16 23 42"?
- Chris

Well, I did notice this stuck the the engine the other day...............not sure where it came from...

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:57 pm

ChesterCRD wrote:

KeighJeigh, If that was your 4wd shifter that broke, it may similar to what happened to mine during hurricane Faye last summer. The end of the cable has an eyelet that goes around a pin in a lever on the side of the transfer case. The eyelet is held on the pin by a piece of plastic that I could not find. The dealer would only sell me the whole shifter cable assembly, which includes the lever you pull inside the vehicle, all the way back to the eyelet. I bought one, so I could look at it and it's on a shelf in my garage. If yours broke on the end like mine and you want a pic let me know.

I fixed mine using two windshield wiper bushings from the misc plastic parts isle at my local auto parts emporium. I used a medium sized one inside the eyelet, and then PUSHED REALLY F'ING hard to to get a small over the end of the pin to lock it all in place. I check it every oil change and so far it's held. If this is your problem, you can also just put the eyelet loosely over the pin and shift it in your driveway into 2WD so you can get around the mean time.

Good luck. I'm off to poke at my alternator with a big screw driver.

Yes, its the 4wd engagement lever. I think it either broke the linkage or broke the end of the lever itself. Either that or it is jammed. I have not taken a good look at it yet but it is stuck in the granny gear position and won't budge.

You might want to check out the pictures I just posted in the alternator pulley thread. Except for over tightening my vice, I found a 30 second method for removing the pulley.

naturist · **Posted:** Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:07 pm

Um, if I'm not mistaken, the official method for shifting into low range requires you to be rolling and 2-3 mph. Is it doable when you are holding still? I know that is not likely to be the reason the shifter broke, wherever it broke, I'm just curious if it really is important to be moving when you do that.

gmctd · **Posted:** Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:30 pm

Could be the plastic bushing\retainer in the shifter-cable popped off it's pin - also, seems like a dedicated lift pump would be much better than the mighty-vac - also be much better if you just carried a lift pump, extension wiring, and some appropriate hosing in the KJ, for just such emergencies

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:00 pm

naturist wrote:

Um, if I'm not mistaken, the official method for shifting into low range requires you to be rolling and 2-3 mph. Is it doable when you are holding still? I know that is not likely to be the reason the shifter broke, wherever it broke, I'm just curious if it really is important to be moving when you do that.

I've tried all manner of ways of shifting these things. My 05 will NOT shift into low unless I come to a complete stop, put it into neutral. ....and it has never been an issue. It has never been an issue on the 06 either - until last night.
How could you get it into low gear if you were stuck if it required rolling at 2 mph?

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:09 pm

gmctd wrote:

Could be the plastic bushing\retainer in the shifter-cable popped off it's pin - also, seems like a dedicated lift pump would be much better than the mighty-vac - also be much better if you just carried a lift pump, extension wiring, and some appropriate hosing in the KJ, for just such emergencies

I hope it is just a matter of something that has popped loose & doesn't require the full system to be replace.

I'm going to put a lift pump into CRD#2. I've been avoiding it and using CRD#1 as the guinea pig for various mods - but the lift pump is a necessity. New fuel managers might be in order as well but I can't afford it right now..
------------
Has anyone tried placing a cheap $2 inline paper gas filter just before the fuel manager to filter out some of the nastier crap?
It would seem like it might be cheaper and easier to replace one of those a couple times per month.....

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:40 pm

KeighJeigh wrote:

naturist wrote:

Um, if I'm not mistaken, the official method for shifting into low range requires you to be rolling and 2-3 mph. Is it doable when you are holding still? I know that is not likely to be the reason the shifter broke, wherever it broke, I'm just curious if it really is important to be moving when you do that.

I've tried all manner of ways of shifting these things. My 05 will NOT shift into low unless I come to a complete stop, put it into neutral. ....and it has never been an issue. It has never been an issue on the 06 either - until last night.
How could you get it into low gear if you were stuck if it required rolling at 2 mph?

That is the way it is supposed to be done.

gmctd · **Posted:** Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:43 pm

A pre-filter could help if you're in an area of dirty fuel supply - another help would be to buy only from stations with high Diesel traffic - not much way to rotate their stock, so you get fuel like you get coffee from most of those places: fresh fuel is dumped in with the stale, no matter how long ago it was brewed - prollem gonna be finding a clear (so you can see contamination level) filter with 3/8" hose-barb fittings - most of 'em are 1/4", rest are 3/16"

KeighJeigh · **Posted:** Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:34 am

gmctd wrote:

A pre-filter could help if you're in an area of dirty fuel supply - another help would be to buy only from stations with high Diesel traffic - not much way to rotate their stock, so you get fuel like you get coffee from most of those places: fresh fuel is dumped in with the stale, no matter how long ago it was brewed - prollem gonna be finding a clear (so you can see contamination level) filter with 3/8" hose-barb fittings - most of 'em are 1/4", rest are 3/16"

I might try a pre-filter. Since many are made from clear plastic, at the very least it may give me a better indication of what is actually going on.

Due to the severity of one of our snowstorms many local stations actually ran out of fuel numerous times because supply trucks could not get here. Then came the record floods which again cut off much of Western Wa - and who knows how much crap washed down into the holding tanks during the flood. Many stations are still shoveling sand away from the islands.

Either way, a lift pump is required.

CRD #1 fixed, CRD #2 dead on the side of the road

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