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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:41 pm 
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Why would you trade a KJ CRD for a ML320, ones a 4WD and the other is a mall cruiser for aspiring posers. You have a rather rare vehicle in your part of the world.

Most of what has gone wrong with the VM engine has more to do with Chrysler's emissions engineering rather than the soundness of the engine itself. At least the VM can be rebuild, and rebuilt again - can't do that to the Merc (and better have deep pockets for the parts).

Stop whining about the trade in value, all trade in values have dropped big time recently. Trade in doesn't matter if your going to keep it ten years.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:45 pm 
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Glend wrote:
Why would you trade a KJ CRD for a ML320, ones a 4WD and the other is a mall cruiser for aspiring posers. You have a rather rare vehicle in your part of the world.

Most of what has gone wrong with the VM engine has more to do with Chrysler's emissions engineering rather than the soundness of the engine itself. At least the VM can be rebuild, and rebuilt again - can't do that to the Merc (and better have deep pockets for the parts).

Stop whining about the trade in value, all trade in values have dropped big time recently. Trade in doesn't matter if your going to keep it ten years.





Actually, trade in values are on the rise. But I agree, this boat motor is sound.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:36 pm 
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dieseltoyz wrote:
Geordi, I've been following along with your progress as a silent observer, but I feel that I really need to address a few things.

Firstly, I did not sell you an engine nor profit off of the sale. The engine was sold to you by another person who happened to leave it in my shop after he decided that it was not the engine he wanted to use for the project. The engine was not misrepresented either by the seller nor myself in any way. Pictures as well as supplemental data was provided to you and you made the decision to purchase the engine. You got exactly what was represented to you by the seller. It was explained to you (by myself as well as the seller) that you will need the VM service tools in order to torque the cam sprockets down. I included the cam locks (VM1052-1053) free of charge to you already installed so the cams were timed correctly. All your shop needed to do was lock the cams down and (using the VM tools) install the belt setup with tensioner. Yet, oddly enough when you received the engine there was this huge surprise that the cam sprockets were loose! Of course they were loose! We directly addressed this weeks before the engine even left my shop! I even went on to explain that I no longer had the vm tools but there were guys on this forum who rented them out. Furthermore, I did not replace/pull/alter the cylinder head in any way. I simply hot tanked the intake manifold to remove the sludge associated with the EGR system. I then put a new gasket/cam seals on and torqued to appropriate spec using the factory service manual. Theoretically, I could have stripped ALL of them and it would not require replacing the cylinder head! It sounds to me that this shop you're using is pulling a little bait and switch or they're taking you for a ride. Anyone who was honestly surprised as to why the cams arrived free spinning has no business working with this engine. Removing the intake to clean it out is a dealer service procedure and is extremely common with these engines due to the functionality of the EGR system. It is this procedure that has given rise to items like the SEGR and the ORM. Lastly, after urging you not to go with Old Glory freight (or whoever) when shipping something that you wanted to arrive intact, you went ahead and used them anyways. I put the engine in a 4x4x4 wooden shipping crate (you originally wanted me to just stick it on a pallet) resting on a tire and secured it on all 4 sides with 2x4's using 3" wood screws. The seller actually accused me of OVER packing the engine. Yet the crate arrived with the bottom ripped out and the engine on it's side and you blame my packing job? This is why I took pictures of the engine before it left my shop as I am familiar with these shipping brokers tactics and I wanted to minimize the appearance of impropriety on behalf of myself or the seller. Despite all of this, you still feel that we short-changed you or misrepresented the engine in some way. It seems to me that going forward, you need to listen to what people are telling you before you start slandering others on forums. I got a kick out of the flywheel installed backwards thing though! The engine has no flywheel, it has a flex plate as the transmission is an automatic. Furthermore, the crankshaft is keyed so putting it on backwards would take some doing. I routinely perform warranty work requiring complete pull out and reinstallation for DC in 3 days. These guys have had your setup for almost a month now and you're still not on the road! That's unbelievable! I would love to see a detailed analysis of this stripped bolt that requires a new cylinder head! Please post pics...


A month and they still have swapped the engine in? WOW,it's a direct swap!!!!

There should be no problems with over packing dieseltoyz,good of you to take picks of how it left.Being a 3rd party person in something like stated above really sucks.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:41 pm 
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Glend wrote:

Most of what has gone wrong with the VM engine has more to do with Chrysler's emissions engineering rather than the soundness of the engine itself.


You nailed it, that's exactly what the problem is. Also, a weak TC and transmission didn't help either.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:44 pm 
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dieselenthusiast wrote:
Glend wrote:

Most of what has gone wrong with the VM engine has more to do with Chrysler's emissions engineering rather than the soundness of the engine itself.


You nailed it, that's exactly what the problem is. Also, a weak TC and transmission didn't help either.
Actually the trans is a overkill for that little engine,the 545RFE can handle over 1000ft-lbs of torque with a few tweaks.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:52 pm 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
dieselenthusiast wrote:
Glend wrote:

Most of what has gone wrong with the VM engine has more to do with Chrysler's emissions engineering rather than the soundness of the engine itself.


You nailed it, that's exactly what the problem is. Also, a weak TC and transmission didn't help either.
Actually the trans is a overkill for that little engine,the 545RFE can handle over 1000ft-lbs of torque with a few tweaks.


Well, whatever all the TC problems are and the shudder that seems to come with it. Maybe just a poor bean counter design. :cry:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:36 am 
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I would put the biggest CRD problem as a lack of properly trained Maintenance techs
1 hour videos don't cut it.

The few people on LOST who knew what they were doing - gmctd, Old Navy, RetMil46, Ranger1 and others figured out good fixes - what would have happened if we had properly trained techs to support the CRD?

Also evaluating the reliability of anything by looking at internet posts/threads - is a complete failure to understand data or people.

even if every single LOST member had the same problem - we are statistically insignificant - the forum as a whole has 8000 member ID's vs 800,000+ Liberty's <1% - if you drop that down to CRD's Do we even have 1% of the CRD's represented?- at most I'd guess 100 active members probably a lot less vs 11,000 sold. We could all have problems and we could all be in the trivial minority.

You also have to add that historically the Liberty sold well because women bought it - and internet forums are overwhelmingly male, and people look for forum advice when they're having problems - not when things are going well. So your data sample is totally skewed.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:07 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:34 am 
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Glend wrote:
Why would you trade a KJ CRD for a ML320, ones a 4WD and the other is a mall cruiser for aspiring posers. You have a rather rare vehicle in your part of the world.

Most of what has gone wrong with the VM engine has more to do with Chrysler's emissions engineering rather than the soundness of the engine itself. At least the VM can be rebuild, and rebuilt again - can't do that to the Merc (and better have deep pockets for the parts).

Stop whining about the trade in value, all trade in values have dropped big time recently. Trade in doesn't matter if your going to keep it ten years.


Trade the KJ CRD:

Bigger
Better towing
Stability at high speeds


Trade in Value:

Is WAY below market, they are just trying to pull the wool over my eyes. Sorry mate but I understand the value of the KJ in the owrold market a little better than most. No matter if it is a 2.5 or 2.8 CRD 5auto or 6manual. I posted the IAA photos for the KK CRD as well.

I have my reasons for getting a bigger vehicle and the VW Toureg is not on my shpping list. I have driven several ML CDI in the past 10 years and like the way they drive and they suit my off-roading that I do well. I am not a rock climber so the ML will go pretty much anywhere I want to go.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:46 am 
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ATXKJ wrote:
I would put the biggest CRD problem as a lack of properly trained Maintenance techs
1 hour videos don't cut it.

The few people on LOST who knew what they were doing - gmctd, Old Navy, RetMil46, Ranger1 and others figured out good fixes - what would have happened if we had properly trained techs to support the CRD?

Also evaluating the reliability of anything by looking at internet posts/threads - is a complete failure to understand data or people.

even if every single LOST member had the same problem - we are statistically insignificant - the forum as a whole has 8000 member ID's vs 800,000+ Liberty's <1% - if you drop that down to CRD's Do we even have 1% of the CRD's represented?- at most I'd guess 100 active members probably a lot less vs 11,000 sold. We could all have problems and we could all be in the trivial minority.

You also have to add that historically the Liberty sold well because women bought it - and internet forums are overwhelmingly male, and people look for forum advice when they're having problems - not when things are going well. So your data sample is totally skewed.


Since mine was in Germany most of it's life and serviced under properly instructed mechanics, this could be the reason I have never had a issue with mine. The KJ CRD has served me well on road, off road, autobahn speeds and on the race track being flogged. There are alot of CRD KJ and KK around the world that are running with no issues, way more than 11000 or so sold in the US. There will always be haters and nothing in life is perfect when it comes to mechanics.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:51 am 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
dieselenthusiast wrote:
Glend wrote:

Most of what has gone wrong with the VM engine has more to do with Chrysler's emissions engineering rather than the soundness of the engine itself.


You nailed it, that's exactly what the problem is. Also, a weak TC and transmission didn't help either.
Actually the trans is a overkill for that little engine,the 545RFE can handle over 1000ft-lbs of torque with a few tweaks.


Since you hijacked my thread for your own personal gain, he is my question to you.

If you know so darn much about this engine and drive train, why the hell are you paying someone else to install it? I do all my engine installs and tranny swaps for the past 20 years. A lot more that were not my cars. With a engine setup like that, it should be pretty darn easy. If your shop has taken more than a week to install it, I think you need a new shop.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:51 am 
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jinstall wrote:
ATXKJ wrote:
I would put the biggest CRD problem as a lack of properly trained Maintenance techs
1 hour videos don't cut it.

The few people on LOST who knew what they were doing - gmctd, Old Navy, RetMil46, Ranger1 and others figured out good fixes - what would have happened if we had properly trained techs to support the CRD?

Also evaluating the reliability of anything by looking at internet posts/threads - is a complete failure to understand data or people.

even if every single LOST member had the same problem - we are statistically insignificant - the forum as a whole has 8000 member ID's vs 800,000+ Liberty's <1% - if you drop that down to CRD's Do we even have 1% of the CRD's represented?- at most I'd guess 100 active members probably a lot less vs 11,000 sold. We could all have problems and we could all be in the trivial minority.

You also have to add that historically the Liberty sold well because women bought it - and internet forums are overwhelmingly male, and people look for forum advice when they're having problems - not when things are going well. So your data sample is totally skewed.


Since mine was in Germany most of it's life and serviced under properly instructed mechanics, this could be the reason I have never had a issue with mine. The KJ CRD has served me well on road, off road, autobahn speeds and on the race track being flogged. There are alot of CRD KJ and KK around the world that are running with no issues, way more than 11000 or so sold in the US. There will always be haters and nothing in life is perfect when it comes to mechanics.


You can’t compare a U.S. CRD with the European CRD. They are not flashed the same and the emissions is completely different.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:54 am 
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Really? Mine has been on the German machines many times for normal servicing and it has never been an issue. I think mine even has the european EGR on it as well. How is the emmisions completely different?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:30 pm 
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jinstall wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
dieselenthusiast wrote:
Glend wrote:

Most of what has gone wrong with the VM engine has more to do with Chrysler's emissions engineering rather than the soundness of the engine itself.


You nailed it, that's exactly what the problem is. Also, a weak TC and transmission didn't help either.
Actually the trans is a overkill for that little engine,the 545RFE can handle over 1000ft-lbs of torque with a few tweaks.


Since you hijacked my thread for your own personal gain, he is my question to you.

If you know so darn much about this engine and drive train, why the hell are you paying someone else to install it? I do all my engine installs and tranny swaps for the past 20 years. A lot more that were not my cars. With a engine setup like that, it should be pretty darn easy. If your shop has taken more than a week to install it, I think you need a new shop.
I don't pay anyone for my work on my KJ either besides trans flushes since it's hard to justify a $4000 machine.I have done all the work on my KJ myself from the lift,gears,lockers,and even the paint job.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:01 pm 
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dieselenthusiast wrote:
Glend wrote:

Most of what has gone wrong with the VM engine has more to do with Chrysler's emissions engineering rather than the soundness of the engine itself.


You nailed it, that's exactly what the problem is. Also, a weak TC and transmission didn't help either.


I towed a 3,000 lb trailer across country a dozen times through mountain passes with up to a ten mile climb and back down. The engine and transmission is still solid at 70,000 miles and is ready for more hard work. I seen many other vehicles broke down and even completely burned up on the same route without towing something. I just gave the CRD a shake down (just returned to Delaware from Washington State) and all it needs is an oil change and a set of tires. The emission problems is you use high sulfur or other unrecommended goop in your fuel. The transmission problem is early models T/C built up to 11/05 and been solved. Yes the CRD is not the best made but what do you expect for a starting price $23K. We got what we paid for.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:56 pm 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
Not bad for a highly un-wanted vehicle with known issues.


I'd say that the numbers speak for themselves as to whether or not the CRD is an "unwanted" vehicle.
KBB 3.7L: Good $7,450
KBB CRD: Good $9,350
Both with identical options and mileage.

Hmmm... it seems that the most unwanted vehicle is the Gasser, based on the Price that folks are willing to pay.Image

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:43 pm 
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jinstall wrote:
Really? Mine has been on the German machines many times for normal servicing and it has never been an issue. I think mine even has the european EGR on it as well. How is the emmisions completely different?



How are the emissions different? CDX had a heck of a time trying to make the KJ emissions compliant. You know as well as I do that the EPA standards for the U.S. is completely different than the emissions standard for the European models. The difference is complicated enough that we (United States) do not see many diesels. The introduction of the KJ CRD was an attempt, but there are enough differences between the European and U.S. models to justify the need for the SEGR, ORM, Provent, and EHM to make the CRD perform as well as the European model.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:07 am 
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BlackLibertyCRD wrote:
dieselenthusiast wrote:
Glend wrote:

Most of what has gone wrong with the VM engine has more to do with Chrysler's emissions engineering rather than the soundness of the engine itself.


You nailed it, that's exactly what the problem is. Also, a weak TC and transmission didn't help either.


I towed a 3,000 lb trailer across country a dozen times through mountain passes with up to a ten mile climb and back down. The engine and transmission is still solid at 70,000 miles and is ready for more hard work. I seen many other vehicles broke down and even completely burned up on the same route without towing something. I just gave the CRD a shake down (just returned to Delaware from Washington State) and all it needs is an oil change and a set of tires. The emission problems is you use high sulfur or other unrecommended goop in your fuel. The transmission problem is early models T/C built up to 11/05 and been solved. Yes the CRD is not the best made but what do you expect for a starting price $23K. We got what we paid for.


That’s awesome! I think the little tractor can do a lot, but the CRD has a known history of having transmission related problems. My intentions are to express that many of us were not happy about the F37. In addition, there are several on this forum who have felt the need to upgrade to the Suncoast T.C. And there are still CRD owners experiencing the “transmission shutter.” Consider all the CRD owners out there who do not have the knowledge that we have on this forum. In hindsight, it’s easy to say the CRD is a good vehicle, but for the average Joe, the CRD has also been a disappointment. I’ve been on this forum long enough to see a lot of frustrated CRD owners come and go due to CRD problems. oldnavy is a perfect example of someone who eventually decided it wasn‘t worth it. He told me that the CRD had too many problems for him to keep once the warranty was out.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:13 am 
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Cold feet are contagious. The majority of CRD's are trouble free.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:26 am 
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BVCRD wrote:
Cold feet are contagious. The majority of CRD's are trouble free.


Has your CEL light came back on yet :?: Mine was on and off for about six months and I finally took it in. Flow control valve and EGR valves were both replaced and that was at 22k miles :wink:
It's not a case of "cold feet" it's more like "seeing the writing on the wall" :cry:

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