Did ORM - now a little concerned

linewarbr · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:10 am

When I first heard the statement that, after doing the ORM, one should hear more "diesel sound," I was skeptical. But, it has definitely happened to me. My little Jeep used to purr along both at highway speed and while idling in gear. It's fine on the highway, but now while idling in gear, the thing clatters pretty loud and there is a marked increase in vibration. I am considering the SEGR mod, but I am definitely concerned at the sound difference, and what that may mean for my engine internals.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:13 am

Why did you do the ORM?

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:50 am

What your hearing is the normal diesel sound or "clatter" :lol:

Don't worry it is normal and they are built for the added stress. In a NON egr diesel they are allowed to intake as much air as they can and that results in the knock. When they started adding EGR the sound was lessoned because they went from all the air they could ingest to a restricted amount of intake containing a lot of exhaust gas that is less volital.

Think of the sound as music to your ears :lol:

Most know you did the ORM to reduce or stop the clogging of your intake manifold and to get some of the power back that F37 took away :wink:

BVCRD · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:13 am

But isn't the ORM a lifetime event? Won't it in fact kill or freeze up the egr?

UFO · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:28 pm

BVCRD wrote:

But isn't the ORM a lifetime event? Won't it in fact kill or freeze up the egr?

No. "ORM" is the act of unplugging the MAF, which disables the EGR function. Hook it back up and it works again.

linewarbr · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:35 pm

I did the ORM because I was getting a CEL off and on with a code for "Insufficient EGR Flow" and "Turbo Underboost." So when I cleaned the MAP sensor I figured to go ahead and unplug the MAF and see what happened. If the EGR is going to fail, I want it to fail closed rather than open.

I have noticed more power, but not necessarily more mpg. Strangely enough it also seems to hold onto gears longer now under normal acceleration.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:38 pm

UFO wrote:

BVCRD wrote:

But isn't the ORM a lifetime event? Won't it in fact kill or freeze up the egr?

No. "ORM" is the act of unplugging the MAF, which disables the EGR function. Hook it back up and it works again.

I knew what it was, but I also thought I had read that some folks' egr froze up from non use and build up.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:03 pm

If you did the ORM your Jeep will thank you. That increased clatter is the sound of a happy engine that is no longer being forced to suck it's own waste back in through it's mouth, a process known as coprophagia. Because of the cessation of soot being sucked back into the engine, the rings will last twice as long, the bearings will not be abraded away, and the oil lasts twice as long between changes. If you apply the same amount of go-pedal as before, then MPG should go up slightly around town, but highway MPG will probably remain the same, because there is not normally much EGR activity when under load. You have done the right thing to help the environment also, because disabling the EGR significantly reduces PM coming out the tailpipe.

UFO · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:45 pm

BVCRD wrote:

UFO wrote:

BVCRD wrote:

But isn't the ORM a lifetime event? Won't it in fact kill or freeze up the egr?

No. "ORM" is the act of unplugging the MAF, which disables the EGR function. Hook it back up and it works again.

I knew what it was, but I also thought I had read that some folks' egr froze up from non use and build up.

IIRC, one person reported an issue after running the SEGR for an extended period of time, then hooking in a bypass plug. Supposedly the valve was stuck after being closed for so long. I've run longer than what was reported, but have not tested my EGR. And I may not, as the EGR is apparently not under warranty anyway, and I never intend to use it again.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:15 pm

Quote:

You have done the right thing to help the environment also, because disabling the EGR significantly reduces PM coming out the tailpipe

Uhh.. no. Only reason egr's exist is for the environment.

UFO · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:55 pm

onthehunt wrote:

Quote:

You have done the right thing to help the environment also, because disabling the EGR significantly reduces PM coming out the tailpipe

Uhh.. no. Only reason egr's exist is for the environment.

You might want to look into it before you pretend you know something on this issue. For one, a 2 mpg increase in mileage is a huge decrease in CO2 emissions. Secondly, the slight increase in NOx from no EGR will only cause pollution if the NOx is in the presence of VOCs and ozone -- NOx is a secondary pollutant and not the cause of smog. And third, nursecosmo is correct, no EGR helps the fuel burn more completely, reducing particulates.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:01 pm

onthehunt wrote:

Quote:

You have done the right thing to help the environment also, because disabling the EGR significantly reduces PM coming out the tailpipe

Uhh.. no. Only reason egr's exist is for the environment.

You might want to get educated on the reason for the EGR before saying how good it is for the environment. NOx from automobiles causing acid rain is a myth perpetuated by so-called scientists who want to continue getting Government grants. There is no accurate data which shows a reduction in smog levels after the introduction of NOx control systems on automobiles.

The only reason that the EGR exists is because the EPA is in bed with Big Oil. Anything which will cause an engine to use more fuel is good for business. There are MUCH more effective ways to control NOx besides an EGR (as if NOx was even a real problem anyway), such as water injection. Water injection reduces NOx to virtually zero, as well as lowering Particulates to almost non existent levels also. It is Free and extends the life of the engine. The equipment costs are much less than the complex plumbing of an EGR, but the auto makers can't get Government subsidies for something not mandated by the EPA. However the biggest reason that the EPA has to not mandating it's use, is that it improves MPG over no treatment system at all. ExxonMobil doesn't like that at all.

Ha, ha, I sound like Geordi.

Why are EGR systems bad for the environment? They greatly increase the CO2 produced by automobiles. One gallon of diesel produces 22.2 pounds of CO2. Consider that there are 11000 CRD Libertys on the road. At 12000 average annual miles driven x 22mpg average MPG, that comes to 6000000 gallons of fuel producing 133200000 pounds of CO2. By disabling the EGR an average increase of about 2 MPG is realized, for a savings of 11100000 pounds or 5550 tons of CO2 annually. Assuming that the max allowable limit of 0.07 grams of NOx per mile was produced by our CRDs, that amounts to 10.2 tons of NOx for all 11000 vehicles (it is impossible that they come even close to the max limit). EGRs reduce NOx levels by approximately 50% under ideal conditions, but raise PM and VOCs by more than 50%. EPA allows roughly 10 grams of PM emission per gallon. That equates to 66 tons of PM produced by EGR equipped CRDs.

So you tell me what you would rather have....5.1 tons of NOx which is NOT hazardous to your health, or would you rather have 33 extra tons of particulate matter and VOCs which are EXTREMELY hazardous to your health (think cancer, asthma, and lung disease), along with the extra 5550 tons of greenhouse gas.

Yeah EGR valves are reeeal good for the environment.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:18 pm

One weak theory that died was Female Hysteria.
Another Alchemy.
Another Acid Rain, Adirondacks were that way when the fossil fish were alive.
Another increasing mercury levels in the Great Lakes, they were that way when the fossil fish were alive.

One dieing is Relativity
Another dieing is Global Warming

I hope nursecosmo is 1,000% correct and NOX/Smog is also dieing.

Comment: Guinness (or other great beer) is better than Kool Aid :!:

I don't drink the Kool Aid :lol:

onthehunt · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:20 pm

Wow.. you guys can calm down. Reason egr's are on engines is to make them emit less pollution. So please don't tell me it's better for the environment to disable them. You can argue with the EPA on specifics.

blake1827 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:40 pm

yeah stay away from the Kool Aid. Outfits like CARB & EPA are run by a bunch of ignorant r-tards that perpetuate the anti-diesel mindset in this country.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:08 am

EPA ect. are trying to regulate Diesels to run like Gasoline vehicles. That is why the EGR is in place on a Diesel. They are obsessed with NOx and glossing over PM and CO2.

The other thing about disabling the EGR is your engine with last longer....hence, good for the environment by saving resources in materials and reducing the energy costs of shipping new materials/building/transporting new vehicles to replace early retired EGR Diesels.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:13 am

onthehunt wrote:

Wow.. you guys can calm down. Reason egr's are on engines is to make them emit less pollution. So please don't tell me it's better for the environment to disable them. You can argue with the EPA on specifics.

Math doesn't lie. The EPA does. Ask the farmers around here why the EPA thinks that it is ok to spread manure on the fields in summer during heavy rain but it is against the law in the winter because it might get into the rivers.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:31 am

Lets face it, Lawyers (Wanta be Actors) who are burned out' run for office, get elected, pass laws with out even reading the laws that their flunkies and/or lobbyists write.

Since the Lawyers (Wanta be Actors) Can't tell the script from the facts (like the Laws of Physics, Laws of Economics, or the Laws of Nature) they side for the best performance and drink the Kool Aid. Remember the Lawyer who made Millions convincing jury's that CP was caused by Natural Child Birth, he got caught with his pants down between s[peaches going after the big job. For them all, the stage is more important than reality, facts, truth. Unlike a Millwright, Electrician, Plumber, Mechanic, Engineer, Doctor who all have skills worthy of their training, Lawyers set up and corrupt the system to keep themselves gainfully employed by writing lousy stupid unconstitutional laws like the crap regarding NOX emissions.

To make us all shut up, they want to shove the Cap and Trade garbage down our throats so the Idiots who can't make it on Wall Street can trade carbon credits in Chicago.
Ready to buy some farm ground and not farm it so you can have the carbon credits to drive your Jeep yet?

Any of you think Prostitutes will sell their carbon credits to industry?

UFO · **Posted:** Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:00 am

onthehunt wrote:

Wow.. you guys can calm down. Reason egr's are on engines is to make them emit less pollution. So please don't tell me it's better for the environment to disable them. You can argue with the EPA on specifics.

Sorry about trying to burst your bubble, but when an "emissions device" causes more pollution than it prevents, it's time to face reality.

linewarbr · **Posted:** Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:48 pm

Glad I could provide you guys a forum to air out your differences. Ahem. . . :roll:

No, I agree in a sense or else I wouldn't have unplugged the MAF. That and I don't want to replace an EGR.

Can anybody comment on why my transmission would be hanging on to gears longer now? It's not anything crazy like never shifting before 3000 or anything, but it does seem to hang on longer, particularly at part-throttle.

Did ORM - now a little concerned

Who is online