Went to trade the CRD in

BVCRD · **Posted:** Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:42 am

Joe Romo wrote:

BVCRD wrote:

Cold feet are contagious. The majority of CARDs are trouble free.

Has your CEL light came back on yet :?:

Mine was on and off for about six months and I finally took it in. Flow control valve and EGR valves were both replaced and that was at 22k miles :wink:

It's not a case of "cold feet" it's more like "seeing the writing on the wall" :cry:

Many hear these bad luck stories and sell or trade because they don't want it to happen to them. Kind of a Chicken Little syndrome. Now some have had failures from any number of causes but like I said, the majority are unaffected. No my light hasn't come back on. I was driving in 12 inches of slush, and then parked it and went to the movies. Came out and it was on when I started it. Drove through 3 cycles and it went off when we came out from eating Chinese food. The slush was gone, and the temp was in the 50's by then. The owner's manual says if it does come on, it may go off in 3-4 warm up cycles. I think some connection on the tranny, or behind the fan got wet and it took a while to dry out, and cycle the light off. Time will tell. Were you still using higher sulfer fuel when your egr had trouble?

crdjon · **Posted:** Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:45 am

Quote:

You can’t compare a U.S. CRD with the European CRD. They are not flashed the same and the emissions is completely different.

I wouldnt bet on that, in OZ and I got the same crap problems you got in the US.

Thank everybody for this site or the KJ would have exploded not long after I bought it. When its goin its great. Shame we need to work on a new car to get it right though.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:51 am

With the job interviews and move to Texas, I've put a significant number of miles on mine in just the past 3 months - first of the year, it was just over 32K miles - yesterday when I got back to NC to pick up my stuff, it turned over 39K just before I got home. And there's another 1300 miles to be put on it at the end of the week when I head back down to Texas for good, this time most likely towing a U-Haul trailer.

And other than a few gallons of cruddy fuel in Florida that required a fuel filter change, not one problem along the way. And as long as I paid attention to outside temps and took appropriate measures, it easily whacked out 28 to 32 mpg based on where I had to get fuel.

But then again, I agree with the assessment this isn't a "turnkey" vehicle - in other words, it's not suited for people that only want to jump in, turn the key, and go - with no thought to to diesel-related or even normal vehicle maintenance, and have no interest in learning or doing it themselves.

Several times over the past 4 years, I've warned people who asked me about the CRD that this is not a "fuel it and forget it" vehicle - that unless you were willing to spend the time, attention, and money needed to maintain it properly, this was a poor choice for them as a primary vehicle.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:00 am

retmil46 wrote:

With the job interviews and move to Texas, I've put a significant number of miles on mine in just the past 3 months - first of the year, it was just over 32K miles - yesterday when I got back to NC to pick up my stuff, it turned over 39K just before I got home. And there's another 1300 miles to be put on it at the end of the week when I head back down to Texas for good, this time most likely towing a U-Haul trailer.

And other than a few gallons of cruddy fuel in Florida that required a fuel filter change, not one problem along the way. And as long as I paid attention to outside temps and took appropriate measures, it easily whacked out 28 to 32 mpg based on where I had to get fuel.

But then again, I agree with the assessment this isn't a "turnkey" vehicle - in other words, it's not suited for people that only want to jump in, turn the key, and go - with no thought to to diesel-related or even normal vehicle maintenance, and have no interest in learning or doing it themselves.

Several times over the past 4 years, I've warned people who asked me about the CRD that this is not a "fuel it and forget it" vehicle - that unless you were willing to spend the time, attention, and money needed to maintain it properly, this was a poor choice for them as a primary vehicle.

All I do is change fluids and filters when needed, and bleed the air every 500 miles if it needs it or not. Not turn key, but not much of a hassle either.

TDI4BY · **Joined:** Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:56 pm **Posts:** 644

If the EGR and/or Flow Control fail it will just run better(unless the EGR fails stuck open.) I swear my Jeep runs better the more I unplug :lol:

I just look at a Check Engine Light all the time. I could plug stuff back in to turn off the light but it runs better "my way" and I don't have to worry about the intake clogging up with soot.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:18 am

BVCRD wrote:

All I do is change fluids and filters when needed, and bleed the air every 500 miles if it needs it or not. Not turn key, but not much of a hassle either.

Not for you or I, but there ARE people out there who couldn't be bothered to even keep track of, much less do (or even have someone else do), what you just listed - and then scream bloody murder about the warranty when the vehicle finally gave out on them.

2 weeks ago, I took the replacement '87 MB to get it inspected. There was a young lady there with a gasser Jetta getting it serviced, fairly new at least an 03 or 04. After she left, the mechanic showed me the oil fill cap they'd replaced - it was covered in nearly 1/8" of black crud. She hadn't bothered having the oil changed in over 10K miles - on a gasser at that!!!! :shock:

People that treat a vehicle like that ought to be forced to live and work where thay can take a bus, ride a bicycle, or walk. :roll:

crdjon · **Posted:** Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:24 am

retmil46 wrote:

BVCRD wrote:

All I do is change fluids and filters when needed, and bleed the air every 500 miles if it needs it or not. Not turn key, but not much of a hassle either.

Not for you or I, but there ARE people out there who couldn't be bothered to even keep track of, much less do (or even have someone else do), what you just listed - and then scream bloody murder about the warranty when the vehicle finally gave out on them.

2 weeks ago, I took the replacement '87 MB to get it inspected. There was a young lady there with a gasser Jetta getting it serviced, fairly new at least an 03 or 04. After she left, the mechanic showed me the oil fill cap they'd replaced - it was covered in nearly 1/8" of black crud. She hadn't bothered having the oil changed in over 10K miles - on a gasser at that!!!! :shock:

People that treat a vehicle like that ought to be forced to live and work where thay can take a bus, ride a bicycle, or walk. :roll:

But then again...... I got a friend that bought a vito mercedes 2.2 litre diesel 5 years ago, this thing absolutely rocks, when he picked it up and completed the 1000 k check, they said, well sir see you in 20 000 ks, thats right nothing to do but check levels for 20k. This thing is still pumping better than a f37'd KJ and is at 170 000 ks.

So, my point is, why aint the KJ like that, better than that. HMMMMM........

jinstall · **Posted:** Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:53 am

dieselenthusiast wrote:

jinstall wrote:

Really? Mine has been on the German machines many times for normal servicing and it has never been an issue. I think mine even has the european EGR on it as well. How is the emmisions completely different?

How are the emissions different? CDX had a heck of a time trying to make the KJ emissions compliant. You know as well as I do that the EPA standards for the U.S. is completely different than the emissions standard for the European models. The difference is complicated enough that we (United States) do not see many diesels. The introduction of the KJ CRD was an attempt, but there are enough differences between the European and U.S. models to justify the need for the SEGR, ORM, Provent, and EHM to make the CRD perform as well as the European model.

I contacted the dealer in Germany and they gave me a quick answer on the difference of my KJ and the others they have worked on. It seems the programming is different and the lack of a DPF on mine. I remeber then sending me a letter saying my KJ was not TuV compliant because of the DPF. I had to go down there and remind them mine was US specs. It was also another reason why the germans wanted my KJ so bad, no DPF and fell under the gray market clause. I still have not taken a photo of my SEGR they installed over there but I think it was an updated part tht came a few months later to the US. I haev to find the thread on here about it.

danoid · **Posted:** Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:04 pm

Glend wrote:

Most of what has gone wrong with the VM engine has more to do with Chrysler's emissions engineering rather than the soundness of the engine itself. At least the VM can be rebuild, and rebuilt again - can't do that to the Merc (and better have deep pockets for the parts).

Ditto. I'll probably keep my KJ longer than my wife will keep the WK.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:18 pm

BVCRD wrote:

Were you still using higher sulfer fuel when your egr had trouble?

We've had 15 ppm since a couple of months after I bought it in 06. As I know it only off road, dyed red, is the previous 100 ppm and it's going away too. So to answere your question NO :lol:

BVCRD · **Posted:** Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:49 pm

Joe Romas wrote:

BVCRD wrote:

Were you still using higher sulfer fuel when your egr had trouble?

We've had 15 ppm since a couple of months after I bought it in 06. As I know it only off road, dyed red, is the previous 100 ppm and it's going away too. So to answere your question NO :lol:

Mine had 50 ppm or whatever was available untill June of 2006 when we got 15 ppm up here.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:18 pm

jinstall wrote:

I contacted the dealer in Germany and they gave me a quick answer on the difference of my KJ and the others they have worked on. It seems the programming is different and the lack of a DPF on mine. I remeber then sending me a letter saying my KJ was not TuV compliant because of the DPF. I had to go down there and remind them mine was US specs. It was also another reason why the germans wanted my KJ so bad, no DPF and fell under the gray market clause. I still have not taken a photo of my SEGR they installed over there but I think it was an updated part tht came a few months later to the US. I haev to find the thread on here about it.

I can't find any 06 E-spec Jeeps that have a DPF? If there were such a thing, it surely would have appeared on the US model with our more restrictive emissions regulations.

Silverdiesel · **Posted:** Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:42 pm

Tier 2 Bin 1 EPA compliance came into effect on Jan 1 2007 in the USA for light diesel and even VW did not get things together for the US until 2009 MY. MY2006 for light diesel was Tier 2 Bin 10 required.

Are the Euro LOSTers saying the 2007 and up Liberties are followig that Euro V standard requiring the DPF? And then the authorities are assuming DPF compliance for 2006?

jinstall · **Posted:** Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:14 pm

MY 2006 required DPF in Germany, somewhere here or in Germany I have the letter from Hoffinghof Chrysler Jeep Citroën.

here is a SMALL READ on DPF in Europe.

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesand ... elong2.pdf

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:50 am

jinstall wrote:

MY 2006 required DPF in Germany, somewhere here or in Germany I have the letter from Hoffinghof Chrysler Jeep Citroën.

here is a SMALL READ on DPF in Europe.

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesand ... elong2.pdf

This PDF mentions DaimlerChrysler having the DPF Available as an option only.
Perhaps there are Certain zones in Europe requiring stricter standards than the rest of the EU. The Euro-5 specs don't go into effect until sept 2009 for diesels. The European 2006 models are only Euro-4 spec, which is less restrictive than the American Tier 2 Bin 5, which is what our models fall under (that is why we have such heavy EGR use). Neither the Euro-4 or Tier 2 bin 5 requires a DPF for this little engine. None of the overseas parts suppliers list a DPF for 06 or 07 models.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_e ... _standards

crdjon · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:31 am

nursecosmo wrote:

jinstall wrote:

MY 2006 required DPF in Germany, somewhere here or in Germany I have the letter from Hoffinghof Chrysler Jeep Citroën.

here is a SMALL READ on DPF in Europe.

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesand ... elong2.pdf

This PDF mentions DaimlerChrysler having the DPF Available as an option only.
Perhaps there are Certain zones in Europe requiring stricter standards than the rest of the EU. The Euro-5 specs don't go into effect until sept 2009 for diesels. The European 2006 models are only Euro-4 spec, which is less restrictive than the American Tier 2 Bin 5, which is what our models fall under (that is why we have such heavy EGR use). Neither the Euro-4 or Tier 2 bin 5 requires a DPF for this little engine. None of the overseas parts suppliers list a DPF for 06 or 07 models.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_e ... _standards

Im in OZ and all I got is a Catalytic converter, think its an 06/07 KJ and purchased new in 07.

Maybe the AdBlue will replace the DPF somewhere down the line.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:55 pm

crdjon wrote:

Im in OZ and all I got is a Catalytic converter, think its an 06/07 KJ and purchased new in 07.

Maybe the AdBlue will replace the DPF somewhere down the line.

AdBlue is an SCR (selective reduction catalyst). an SCR has no relation to a DPF (diesel particulate filter), other than the fact that they are both in the exhaust stream. SCRs are for reducing the NOx levels in the exhaust, whereas the DPF is for trapping particulate matter (soot). Some vehicles have both an SCR and a DPF for lower than gasoline emissions levels.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... _107756431

Silverdiesel · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:27 pm

Not to steal Jinstall's thread but this emmissios stuff is way interesting--
What I gather is obviously common rail supports DPF activity and we do not have said filters here in the US.
But then: is our ECU/ injector systems able to handle multiple injections per cycle, its just that there is no reason for it?
I read previously here on the forum that we get up to three injections/cycle for promoting cleaner burning and better performance and therefore ULSD is REQUIRED in our engines. ( one of the reasons 2005 CRD's had more EGR problems due to low availability of ulta low sulphur fuel)

sorry for the steal- back to you guys now--

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:50 pm

No, ULSD is NOT "required" for our engines. That starts with the 2007 model year, but it IS a helpful fuel for reducing emissions. My CRD doesn't have any kitty anymore, and when I have gotten the odd tank of low-sulfur instead of ULSD, you can instantly tell the difference - Eyes burning, and a bad smell. So my CRD likes biodiesel and ULSD. Those multiple-injections-per-cycle are a bad deal however for the DPF-saddled trucks that have them. Yea, "cleaner burning" might be the tagline that they use to sell it, but what they aren't telling you is that they are focusing on less emissions by burning MORE fuel. Those extra cycles? Some are during the EXHAUST STROKE.

How great is your fuel mileage going to be, when you are sending raw fuel directly PAST the cylinder so it burns entirely in the exhaust?

But then again, this is typical government logic. "I want to have LESS of byproduct B that comes from product A... So let me use MORE of product A than ever before... Yea, that won't (by definition) increase the amounts of byproduct B.

Bunch of retards. If they focused on simply reducing the fuel used overall, the emissions regs from model year 2000 would be JUST FINE, when matched with the ULSD. Much of the pollution was coming from the aromatics anyway. I'm all for eliminating them, and replacing the lubricity with 5% biodiesel.

MrMopar64 · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:29 pm

The KJ engine only uses 3 injections, two pilots and a main. The pilot injection is mainly for NVH but also help to add power as well and ensure engine longevity because the pressure rise is much slower and smooth as opposed to the general diesel clatter which is just a very quick, peaky rise in cylinder pressure. THe KJ injection system is capable of running a post injection but it isn't needed or used on this application.

Most people confuse this with the Cummins 04.5-07 engines where they use a single post injection for soot burnoff and catalyst fast-lightoff strategies. And again there, that only is active during the engine warmup cycle so that the cat activates quicker and has lower HC+NOx during the FTP test cycle. This engine also uses a pilot injection for NVH control. The 6.7L engine has newer injectors that support twin pilot for improved NVH and then a close and far post for DPF regeneration and Lean NOx trap control.

No KJ was ever sold with a DPF. It was EuroIV complient but at that time didn't require a DPF for PM standards.

The current Chrysler products (JK/KK/KA/RT) are available as non-DPF or DPF depending on the country and region it's going to, they are EuIV complient until the 2010MY. Starting in 2011 EuV is mandatory which will also have DPF as mandatory too.

Went to trade the CRD in

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