Who killed Chrysler?

MOSFET · **Joined:** Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:40 pm **Posts:** 295

USAFCOP wrote:

Everyone on here is correct.
Unions started the problem by getting greedy. (had their time, but Unions need to go away much like affirmative action in my opinion)

x2

JMSMN · **Posted:** Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:40 pm

The majority of people who are against the union are the people who dont understand them. We have negotiations for our contracts, and extensive meetings with the union companies who employ us. If what we ask for in uur contracts is to much, the companies say no, and vice-versa. The unions in the upper mid-west are some of the strongest in the country, and our last two, three year contracts have not even kept up with inflation. The CEO's of these companies and the board of directors the make bad decisions, should be held more accountable, not receiving hundreds of millions in bonus money. And look at the gas prices over the last couple of years, no one wants to buy a gas guzzler when a honda or some other foreign car will get 30+ miles per gallon. Maybe I am biased for the unions, because I am a union member. But to blame it on the unions for getting greedy is just absurd. Sorry for the long post.

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:06 pm

how about this

it's a point i rarely see made, since we have unions cost is higher and makes it desirable to outsource alot of work which in some/many cases puts people here at home out of jobs

what i dont understand is why the US doesn't tariff or tax or whatever the proper terminology for it is.. imported cars to even out the playing ground a little

it's not like we'd be doing something unfair to them.. because they sure as hell do it to us when we export our stuff!

Keep the unions and return the favor, maybe tax the domestic companies that outsourse more than X Percentage of their goods or something like that

CRD Joe · **Posted:** Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:49 pm

Look, what has killed the U.S. auto industry is the United States! We aren't a free country anymore! Tell me why all the US car companies sell the doo doo out of cars OUTSIDE the United States? Because they don't have to screw around with all the regulations they HAVE to deal with here!

Who the hell is the federal government to tell the car companies what general mile per gallon AVERAGE they MUST meet?

CAFE standards are killing US car companies! Emissions laws are killing US car companies! Crash standards and EPA standards are killing US car companies!

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Peoples Republic of the United States. The founding fathers (go buy the DVD series John Adams) would riot, revolt and call for revolution if they were around today! They fought the British because of a one tenth of one percent tax imposed on them! I bet you'd like that level of taxation today aye?

Add to that our current Marxist president who has nationalized more aspects of our economy in 90 days than all the previous presidents before him combined and you can kiss the United States goodbye!

Just so you know, I have dual degrees in Economics and Political Science, Ive read Marx and Lenin and Mao and Im telling you Obama is a Marxist.

Im also a disabled american veteran, and Im FED UP with this crap!

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:47 pm

without elaborating or discussing particular things further

i'll just stand here quietly beside CRD Joe and smoke a 6 dollar pack of cigs :lol:

JMSMN · **Posted:** Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:55 pm

Agreed, but after 15 years of smoking, two weeks after starting chantix, havent had a smoke, and thats been three weeks! More money for mods.

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:04 pm

my cousin smoked like 2-3 packs a day for about that long, he owned a bar and pretty much just stood behind the bar and chain smoked

he went to the doc and got some shot and they also gave him some pills

the shot made him kinda drunk, he slept it off, got up the next day and didn't have the urge to smoke what so ever, i think he took like 5 of the 30 pills they gave him and threw them away because they made him 'woozy'

i've been seriously considering it

i shouldn't do either but i actually enjoy peach or apple skoal which is probably worse than smoking

should quit both and invest that money into my jeep

Guest · **Posted:** Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:38 pm

"Invest" and "Jeep" do not belong in the same sentence.

BTW...

The CAFE Does not hurt American car companies any more than it does Japanese, German, Swedish, Korean, Burmese, Indian, Tanzanian, English, Russian, or Ugandan car companies. It is industry-wide. Open your eyes.

Does ThunderbirdJunkie agree with CAFE? F no. Does ThunderbirdJunkie agree with the NHTSA and EPA? F no, but the playing field is level there.

TBH, those who supply a superior product for a fair price deserve what they get, just like those who sell garbage for an unfair price (2002 Chrysler Sebring 2.7L anyone? Upper and lower balljoints up front, and upper balljoints out back at 60k miles, with both front hub assemblies AND tie rod ends? NO THANKS)

Sorry guys...but every time a 300, Charger, or Magnum rolls into the lot at work, ThunderbirdJunkie gets giddy and looks forward to selling some outer tie rod ends and upper control arms...Challenger will be the same way, if it's driven in the winter.

Hate to tell you this, but Chrysler for a long time has offered inferior products to even GM and Ford. If they go out of business, they deserve it.

The other side of the coin

ThunderbirdJunkie hopes that FIAT can pick up Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep, and streamline the lineup. Wrangler/GC/Liberty for Jeep, trucks/Challenger/Charger/Caliber/maybe still the Magnum? for Dodge, minivans, 300, and FFS axe that stupid effing Sebring. It should've been stillborn back when it was called the Cirrus in 1995.

CRD Joe · **Posted:** Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:51 pm

ThunderbirdJunkie wrote:

"Invest" and "Jeep" do not belong in the same sentence.

BTW...

The CAFE Does not hurt American car companies any more than it does Japanese, German, Swedish, Korean, Burmese, Indian, Tanzanian, English, Russian, or Ugandan car companies. It is industry-wide. Open your eyes.

Wrong answer Joe. Youre asking, no demanding (and the Govt. has no business or right to do so in a free market) that the US auto companies change their very nature to meet/match what the foreign auto companies have always been. Youre demanding that US car companies adjust to what has always been normal operating procedure for everyone else. That's isnt a normal expectation. This is the United States. We havent NEEDED suicide boxes like every third world country has over the years. Therefore those companies have been prepared and our companies havent. It isnt relative at all.

Guest · **Posted:** Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:37 pm

If that is the case

Why are so many cars NOT imported HERE because of our more-stringent emissions and safety standards?

Sure, maybe in 1974 you have a valid point, with bumper laws and catalytic converters...but uh, they, and every other auto manufacturer, has had ALMOST FOUR DECADES to adapt.

Know why "JDM" swaps are so popular with the import guys? Because the engines we get are typically detuned to meet OUR emissions rules. Why wasn't the Skyline (R34 and older) imported to the US? Because it did not meet EPA and NHTSA guidelines.

daspes · **Posted:** Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:56 am

Moving to OT...

(Anyone else smell popcorn popping?)

oddball · **Posted:** Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:04 am

Yeah. Even though they're ALL wrong.

Who killed Chrysler?... The Craigslist Killer, that's who. :twisted:

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:36 am

.................. since the pop corn isn't done yet, lets have some cheesy poofs

stumpjumper_09 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:17 pm

NO KITTY THOSE ARE MY CHEESY POOFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guest · **Posted:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:51 am

Also, @ CRDJoe, you're saying the FDA should not have any say in the products that we consume.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:22 am

I shot the sheriff, but I did not shoot the deputy.

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:32 pm

goodbye yellow brick road :lol:

Tokyojoe · **Posted:** Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:20 am

I just skipped page one and came to page two. I disagree with CRD Joe. All companies, foreign and domestic, must follow the same regulations to sell cars here in the USA. Honda and many other Japanese (owned) car companies make the cars here in the USA and have to have all those crash test, emissions requirements, etc as all American (owned) cars have on them. The quality and mpg is what it is about. Look at your window regulators that Chrysler so cheaply chose for Jeeps windows is easy proof. D30A's are another piece of proof. Chrysler went cheap and it showed in Jeeps. Too many look-a-like vehicles also. Jeep-Dodge-Chrysler. Ford Mercury. Chevy GM Pontiac etc. Another factor I have noticed, American cars, trucks, SUV's all seem to want to keep their ugly signature front ends. The Japanese cars do not. European cars do to a degree. Pontiac always has to have that pointy tip looking front end and so on. Just my thoughts. I do agree with Jeep and it's signature front though. It's a Jeep and there is nothing else like it.

InCommando · **Posted:** Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:30 am

Unions & their heredity costs are one issue. But the grievance process that keeps POS's on the payroll is another. People usuing and SELLING drugs on the factory floor are retained due to the valiant efforts of the UAW & IUE. Great job, guys! And that is just one example.

However, Daimler's management hurt Chrysler. Big time. Promises were made that were never followed through on, and they made some butt-stupid decisions because they did not understand the market.

Nice Japanese companies aren't hurting? Someone doesn't read the news. Toy & Honda are shuttering plants and doing GM-style "shutdowns" due to excess supply. This in spite of Government support that sort of makes a mockery of "free market."

This may not be a popular view in the CRD circles, but the CRD was not a success. In the form it was sold in, it would not pass the newer standards on the low-sulpher diesel. And frankly, the CRD guys are too close to the issues. Many of us 3.7 guys laugh at the ton of mods required, as posted by the CRD'ers, as essential to maintain the vehicles. Just read your sig lines. And the CRD specific failures are disheartening. The CRD paved the way for the (then) in-house bluetec Grand and that was all it was ever meant to do, IMHO. 10,000 units over a 2 model year run, with a built-in self destruct date due to emissions? Chrysler screwed anyone who purchased these things & kiling it does not appear to have been any sort of mistake.

As to the title: Chrysler is not dead yet. It may be on life support, but it is not dead.

LoganSix · **Posted:** Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:24 pm

1 ) The legacy cost of the Big 3 put a $2k penalty on each car.
2 ) As pointed out by the diesel comment, government regulations hurt Chrysler, because they do not have a big enough presence in Europe or other places to offset a down turn here. Other companies can continue to sell their diesels and other small cars they have to sell, without having to import them here.
3 ) All car companies are hurting.
4 ) Americans are hurting themselves by wanting more money, cheaper stuff and no compromise in between.

Here is a perfect example of the wrong mindset:

Quote:

The unions in the upper mid-west are some of the strongest in the country, and our last two, three year contracts have not even kept up with inflation.

News flash: You can't expect to get a raise when your company isn't making a profit. You are not entitled to a raise.

Daimler stripped Chrysler of money and resources. If you don't know what happened during the "merger", then go on Allpar.com and learn something. Not only was Chrysler the most profitable car company in the world before the merger, they had a $20 billion war chest and a bunch of great ideas coming down the pipe. Sure, Daimler might have helped with the build quality, but they removed or chased off anyone with good ideas from the company. The ME412 project is the best example. Chrysler took a Mercedes engine and developed a super car better than MB's that could be produced at a sub-super car price. Daimler canned it and gave us the Caliber.

Who killed Chrysler?

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