Yeah, Chrysler really wants Fiat as a partner

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

From MSNBC: Unfortunately, Fiat suffers from some of the same quality problems as Chrysler. Fiat models do not score high for quality and reliability in Europe and South America, where they are sold now. Fiats and Fiat-owned Alfa Romeos sold in Europe are near the bottom in reliability and "need to improve significantly to move away from the foot of the table, where they have languished for several years,"

"Fix It Again Tony" seems to apply as much now as when I had my awful spider back in the 70s.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Fri May 01, 2009 10:38 pm

But unlike Chrysler, they have figured out that if they price them according to the quality level, they can still turn a profit.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat May 02, 2009 2:29 am

So now they need Chrysler to instruct them on how to over-price them, so as to maximize the profit margin while not caring a whit about the fit-and-finish after the new car smell wears off. Thats the beauty of selling a product with a ZERO return policy!

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sat May 02, 2009 10:09 am

Car, factory tooling and production procedure all designed by FIAT.
It was made worse by even more poor quality components.
Most small components are purchased from vendors.
Years ago, International Harvester (now Navistar) started too late telling suppliers where they can put the junk they supply and the quality along with reliability improved.
If FIAT/Chrysler can figure this out, they will be able to improve quality and reliability, then all they need to do specify quality (instead of JUNK like our lower front ball joints).

nightdrv · **Posted:** Sat May 02, 2009 11:10 am

Bring on the Fiat Abarth 500 SS! (To the US, that is)

truckbouy2 · **Posted:** Sat May 02, 2009 2:40 pm

It's an arranged marriage AND the bride will give you nightmares even while you're wide awake.....
I think the Chrysler Group is finished (I really hope not). The forced merger, the government influence, now the taint of bankruptcy is not going to
fair well with the skittish new buying public. Us die hards probably won't be moved but its going to take years to forget this black mark on and to trust a once fine car company.
And I don't think Cerebrus and those involved have the patience for this war of attrition.
I hope my thoughts are wrong.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat May 02, 2009 3:46 pm

Our only hope is that in the next vain attempt to stop the bleeding, they sell of the Jeep brand to someone that can show it some QUALITY love, that it has been sorely lacking. Tata wouldn't be my first choice, but I can't think of anyone that has any similar vehicle development experience right now except for maybe Unimog from Germany.

How cool would that be tho, to have a Unimog with the Jeep nameplate. Roads? Where we are going, we don't NEED roads.

Liberty for All · **Posted:** Sat May 02, 2009 6:55 pm

If we can dream, would it be too great to have Jeep engineers in cooperation with Fiat engineers and Chrysler marketing and experienced machinists form a team to design/build a compactish, tough, all wheel drive, on and off road, fuel efficient/electric Jeep stylish affordable all new vehicle which could also plug in internationally?

What really is stopping the birth of this type of vehicle?
Today's social/economic climate is the right time to rethink the design of a new SUV type vehicle without all the Oil and other corporation owned fluids. Electric Liberty for All.
I love my 05 but simple improvements would make it a world class popular vehicle in the future.

:arrow:

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Sat May 02, 2009 7:08 pm

Liberty for All wrote:

If we can dream, would it be too great to have Jeep engineers in cooperation with Fiat engineers and Chrysler marketing and experienced machinists form a team to design/build a compactish, tough, all wheel drive, on and off road, fuel efficient/electric Jeep stylish affordable all new vehicle which could also plug in internationally?

What really is stopping the birth of this type of vehicle?
Today's social/economic climate is the right time to rethink the design of a new SUV type vehicle without all the Oil and other corporation owned fluids. Electric Liberty for All.
I love my 05 but simple improvements would make it a world class popular vehicle in the future.

:arrow:

No need to dream about it. http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/

Liberty for All · **Posted:** Sat May 02, 2009 8:29 pm

WOW! Thank you for alerting me. Looks like an amazing vehicle. Just a start but if they can keep costs and price down then many possibilities.
The dawn of the Phoenix electric SUV may be coming soon.
The darkest hour just may be before dawn.
I can just see our group here thinking of mods.

:lol:

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sun May 03, 2009 11:10 am

truckbouy2 wrote:

It's an arranged marriage AND the bride will give you nightmares even while you're wide awake.....
I think the Chrysler Group is finished (I really hope not). The forced merger, the government influence, now the taint of bankruptcy is not going to
fair well with the skittish new buying public. Us die hards probably won't be moved but its going to take years to forget this black mark on and to trust a once fine car company.
And I don't think Cerebrus and those involved have the patience for this war of attrition.
I hope my thoughts are wrong.

MB did not have a clue how to produce a cheaper car, so the brief merger gave them what they though they wanted. When MB found out the lower production costs was an accounting game like a short skirt and a low cut top, they dumped Chrysler.
Fiat lacks the knowledge on how to sell cars in North American Market which accounts for half of the worlds sales.
Chrysler does not know how to make a smaller car that is great to own which can be documented by the Affair they had with Mitsubishi for many years. As we all know, Mitsubishi broke up the Affair they had with Chrysler.

What a SOAP OPERA :roll:

Will Proctor and Gamble buy them both out next :?:

007husky · **Posted:** Mon May 04, 2009 11:10 am

Fiat in south america, is a cheap brand of car. Not know for luxury or high tech, but for simple light, cheap cars.

Ive never had a fiat leave me walking on the side of the road.

mackruss · **Posted:** Mon May 04, 2009 12:28 pm

Fiat and Nissan have some tie up, i lifted the bonnet of a Nissan half tonner recently and it had a Fiat engine, badged.

Nissan is well known in the off road circuits so a Nissan-Fiat /Jeep may not be so bad after all :wink:

danoid · **Posted:** Mon May 04, 2009 1:24 pm

geordi wrote:

Our only hope is that in the next vain attempt to stop the bleeding, they sell of the Jeep brand to someone that can show it some QUALITY love, that it has been sorely lacking. Tata wouldn't be my first choice, but I can't think of anyone that has any similar vehicle development experience right now except for maybe Unimog from Germany.

How cool would that be tho, to have a Unimog with the Jeep nameplate. Roads? Where we are going, we don't NEED roads.

That's already been done and it didn't work. Unimog is Mercedes Benz.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon May 04, 2009 3:37 pm

Mog may be owned by Daimler, but did they point any of the Unimog engineers at Jeep and tell them to have fun? Don't think so. Daimler wanted Mopar so they could break into the mid-price car market, but they failed miserably at that for reasons that escape me.

Jeep needs an owner that knows heavy-duty go-anywhere designs. Hummer *could* have been it, but GM did a nice job of screwing those designs up by removing the diesel engines and installing fuel-wasting components instead. Maybe International should be the one we hope for, they certainly know how to build a solid truck as well as vehicles (and engines) that can put up with the worst of off-road conditions. And it wouldn't hurt to have a Jeep powered by an International Diesel engine! Service would become a breeze, just find your nearest truck center.

Glend · **Posted:** Mon May 04, 2009 5:38 pm

You can bag Fiat and their US reputation all day long but that does not change the fact that they now call the shots (not the UAW - who just want jobs) on the future of Jeep. Look at this strategically. Fiat has done a good job over the past five years getting themselves re-organised and profitable. They are now in negotiations to buy GM Europe, which includes the powerhouse Opel. Combined Fiat, Opel, Saab, Chrysler, will be a $100B company with considerable european market share and allow them to fault over GM to be the second largest car maker in the world. This is the right time for them to buy up the best of the basket cases, financied in part by the local country government loans. Fiat will not be flogging off a quality brand like Jeep. In years to come expect smaller Jeeps which do not drag market away from other Fiat products, so off-road specialisation and a dropping of things like Patriots, Compass, the KK Liberty (which all compete with existing Fiat and GM Europe platforms) , and the fuel hungry Grand. The Wrangler will survive, probably with a Fiat diesel in all markets except the US. Who knows the J8 maybe the future of Jeep.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Mon May 04, 2009 9:40 pm

Glend wrote:

Who knows the J8 maybe the future of Jeep.

I could deal with that

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue May 05, 2009 1:19 am

danoid wrote:

geordi wrote:

Our only hope is that in the next vain attempt to stop the bleeding, they sell of the Jeep brand to someone that can show it some QUALITY love, that it has been sorely lacking. Tata wouldn't be my first choice, but I can't think of anyone that has any similar vehicle development experience right now except for maybe Unimog from Germany.

How cool would that be tho, to have a Unimog with the Jeep nameplate. Roads? Where we are going, we don't NEED roads.

That's already been done and it didn't work. Unimog is Mercedes Benz.

Guess you haven't checked out prices for a Unimog,not fun to work on either,I've worked on a many 404's.

Quote:

geordi

Mog may be owned by Daimler, but did they point any of the Unimog engineers at Jeep and tell them to have fun? Don't think so. Daimler wanted Mopar so they could break into the mid-price car market, but they failed miserably at that for reasons that escape me.

Jeep needs an owner that knows heavy-duty go-anywhere designs. Hummer *could* have been it, but GM did a nice job of screwing those designs up by removing the diesel engines and installing fuel-wasting components instead. Maybe International should be the one we hope for, they certainly know how to build a solid truck as well as vehicles (and engines) that can put up with the worst of off-road conditions. And it wouldn't hurt to have a Jeep powered by an International Diesel engine! Service would become a breeze, just find your nearest truck center.

Yeah GM ruined the Hummer name,real bad.The only thing they did somewhat right was the H1 Alpha but that was scraped real quick.Now the Rescue with a 7.3 PS would have been kicka$$.

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

Quote:

You can bag Fiat and their US reputation all day long but that does not change the fact that they now call the shots (not the UAW - who just want jobs) on the future of Jeep. Look at this strategically. Fiat has done a good job over the past five years getting themselves re-organised and profitable

.

Maybe Fiat has done a wonderful job making a profit, but my experience with the Spider in the 70s was bad enough to remember more than 30 years later. More to the point, I have had the much touted Fiat 500 as a rental in Europe twice over he last few years. The best thing I can say about it was that it was just adequate. If the 500 is an example of Fiat's best then US consumers are going to get screwed by another European car maker. There is a reason why Fiat left the US market-they could not sell a product anyone wanted to buy

I suspect that Fiat's reputation in the states is so bad that no cars will be sold under the "Fiat" name in the US, but will be re-badged under the Chrysler banner, much like the Mitsubishi sold by Chrysler a few years ago.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue May 05, 2009 7:18 pm

They were so bad that they could not even sell them in Ireland.
Then they had an idea :idea:

Dealers removed the Daewoo name plates and slapped on CHEVY.
They sold them all.

Yeah, Chrysler really wants Fiat as a partner

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