To anybody who ever considered suing Chrysler or GM

ac5501 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:55 am

The bankruptcy judge has ruled that the new Chrysler will have no product liability for ANY car sold before the merger becomes official. I'll bet GM gets the same deal. So, for example, anybody injured in a fire as a result of the bad fuel heater plug on the CRD is SOL.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... kvfqEmeLOE

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:51 am

There is a lot more to it than that - He just invalidated what Obama said, that the warranties would still be honored. That would be considered "accepting liability" (pronounced COSTS) for those cars sold by a previous company.

Guess what - You think you still have a 7/70 or an extended warranty, or that mythical lifetime warranty? All gone too.

Think about it: Those warranties were issued by Chrysler Motor LLC. The new company will be named Chrysler Group Incorporated, and all of the assets of the now-dead CM-LLC are being sold to CGI as a legal transfer between DIFFERENT PARTIES. This is the same as what happens when you buy those "lifetime warranty" pots from the county fair, and the company vanishes and changes its name in 2-3 years... Yet those SAME display booths are at every fair I have ever been to. Just with different names. No warranty if the original company doesn't exist anymore.

Welcome to the world that I have been living since Mopar told me at Christmas that I had no more 7/70 warranty because their computer said so. And how dare I have a hardcopy printout of that same computer's data from months earlier.

So nice of them to completely write off millions of dollars of potential covered repairs and leave the previous customers with ZILCH. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm tired of "holding the bag" for Mopar.

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:02 am

i hear ya on that

and of course, truth to it or not i don't know

but i keep hearing the gov spokesmen mention that the prior warranties will be backed by the US Govt

So like basically our taxes are going to pay for our warranty repairs? Yeah um how about lower our taxes let us keep the money and we'll foot the repairs ourselves or something :lol:

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:53 am

What should concern you even more is the Feds basically seized property from private citizens and redistributed it to others. For 230 years since this country had a stock market, the rules were secured bond holders are always first in line to get paid (hence the name). The Feds moved in and told the bond holders this is what you'll get but we are moving this group ahead of you. This group would be the UAW in this case. They were given preferential treatment in exchange for concessions and of course their loyalty.

When did we become Venezuela?

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:49 am

i agree with what JL just said 100%

i don't care how it was 'validated', on what 'grounds' or for what 'reason'

it isn't how anything was intended to be operated and it doesn't matter who got moved ahead of who and why either

peoples rights and freedoms suffer exponentially the larger the fed gets

and if you haven't noticed, the larger the fed gets the worse they perform and the more ludicrous their prospective resolutions become

couple million people writing a check sized note to their state and fed come tax season stating "you do not represent me or my ideals and you waste my money on things that I neither support nor voted for since every politician flip flops the day after they're elected and therefore this is all you get" would create a nice welcome stink

I'd do it, I'd even be willing to go to jail for it. Now help me find a few more million to do it as well

regardless of what any individual reader feels about the subject i think you're entitled to it, even if you think I'm a bad American or should be hung for what I believe, that's fine with me just don't go arguin or nothin it's not worth it

plus i think this belongs in Off topic

that type of federal practice extended beyond just the car manu's

look at the bank situations with mortgages and what not, when the fed halted repos of certain types of mortgage situations and dropping the hammer and cutting, say person X's mortgage to 300 dollars when it was orig. 2500 or something rediculous and the buyer had no business going that deep in the banks pocket in the first place.. they took bank's collateral right out from under them, if a bank can't repo something they can't write it as financial backing thus you get a gigantic crack right through the financial system as well

throw ontop of that savings interest rates that amount to diddly and you've got a huge number of people who forget that a thing called a savings account even exists because there's no real benefit to it

throw 600 bucks in the bank and 6 months later you realize that your 650 bucks won't buy 400 dollars of what it would when you put it in there (gas for instance)

im genuinely surprised that we aren't worse off than we already are

and venezuela socialist as they may be, atleast had brains about it and invested in alternative diesels to the point where it's about .17 cents a gallon last time i was there, of course that could be an equiv. of 20 bucks a gallon if you compared their populations revenue, I don't have that information

and for reference, on the basis of value, the us govt surpassed Venezuela's 'hostile overtakings or whatever you want to call it' based on ratio by country total asset by about 20%

Uffe · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:16 am

You guys missed the point entirely, what they want you to do is BUY A NEW CAR with NEW WARRANTY!

Woopeedoo!

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:06 am

I predicted the Chicago Politics which I have been aware of most of my life and detest, would move to and infect Washington.
I never did predict it would be the pandemic plague on steroids that it is now.
It is getting to the point where the only elected officials who have not sold us out, could not sell a warm dry pair of gloves in the Winter Arctic Tundra or a cool glass of water in the hottest dessert.
Hopefully we will all survive and get through this mess.

chadhargis · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:15 pm

I read the article and it doesn't mention anything about warranty being voided on pre-merger cars.

I would think that would be a VERY VERY bad thing to do for any company trying to win the public trust and sell cars.

As a new 2008 Jeep owner with a factory 3/36 warranty, if I have an issue and they don't honor it, you can bet I'll tell everyone I know, post it on every internet forum I can, and try to spread the word to not buy a Chrysler product.

But if they take care of me, then likewise, I'll spread the news about how well I was treated.

It's not the 1950's anymore. The "Average Joe" like us now how the power to reach millions of people with the click of an icon.

chadhargis · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:52 pm

According to the article below, looks like Chrysler will honor warranties. Smart move!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/11/busin ... f=business

"Q. What happens if I buy a Chrysler vehicle now?

A. The federal government backed the warranties of Chrysler vehicles while the company was in bankruptcy protection. That responsibility now falls to the Chrysler Group. Warranties on Chrysler models that were purchased before Chrysler filed for bankruptcy will also be honored, until the warranties expire. Consumers whose dealerships have closed can have warranty work done at another Chrysler dealer."

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:09 pm

Chad, I realize that the article doesn't specifically mention the warranties. But this is where my inference comes from:

Can you think of any time where the President says something in a speech, that was later invalidated by actual case law or the legislature's actions?
Obama SAID that the warranties would be honored. But that is not law or even a Presidential order... It was a speech. The words of that bankruptcy judge count as a written ruling, and LOTS of case law has been created by such things.

The judge ruled that the new company has no financial obligations to the previous company. This includes all existing owners. Warranties are a financial obligation, ergo, if you have one... It will be up to the individual dealer to honor it, and it remains to be proven that the dealer will be reimbursed by the NEW COMPANY for handling these previous obligations.

I'm not convinced they will, b/c they now do not have any legal incentive to honor those warranties. However, what the President Speeches and what actually happens can often be two VERY different things.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:53 pm

You can bet the Fiat is going to insist that they purchased the name and assets only...not the liabilities. That is what pennies on the dollar gets you...

I would say much much more...but this is not a political site...

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:01 pm

A firearms manufacturer wanted to keep the Lawyers out of his bank account. He paid all his bills and talked to his Lawyer, then filed bankruptcy and the original company Springfield Armory was no more. He laid off his employees just as soon as the orders that had been filled were shipped. a week or two later a new company Springfield INC took over the business along with the Name Springfield Armory and honored all warranties of Springfield Armory. Any orders not shipped were shipped by Springfield INC for the same terms. None of the customers got the shaft, but there were a bunch of lawyers who wanted to file junk lawsuits that were P!$$ED OFF. I may have left out a few details, but it did not stop me from buying from them.

As we all know the situation with Chrysler is different, but it would be suicide not to honer warranties.
The speech from the Big Chicago Politician mentioned above is as worthless as geordi implies, but there are good, dumb (like the way they ran the company) and stupid moves anyone can make in business, not honoring warranties is beyond stupid.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:01 pm

One of the key elements of Bankruptcy is that it blocks all lawsuits,
and any liabilities assumed are what the company and the judge agree to.

honoring the warranty is a customer relations issue - not a legal requirement.

kdlewis1975 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:41 pm

It's interesting what people are sensitive to. The Commander and Chief can order a military strike and has the freedom to carry out the operation for 90 days before needing Congressional permission to carry on further. This costs taxpayer money too and has the potential to cost lives. I'm not saying this is wrong. Our Chief, regardless of who they are, needs the flexibility to defend our Nation.

While I'm not particularly thrilled by the amount of government intervention with troubled companies, I do view it as an effort to save jobs and potentially soften the unemployment spiral. It's not that it will be necessarily revenue neutral, but those who still have jobs within those companies aren't exempt from paying income taxes. Those who still have jobs won't be drawing from the already strained unemployment system which is supported by taxes generally paid by business and some by taxpayers. At least the money is being spent here rather than being pissed away to blow up and then rebuild some other country.

In terms of the automakers, I think I'd prefer to have them bailed out by our government than to have the assets liquidated for next to nothing and have it all bought by Chinese companies (or their government) only to give them an easy conduit to selling Chinese made cars.

In terms of banks and mortgages loans, I have trouble feeling too sorry for them. It's not like the bank was required to make the loans. While people should be smarter about not getting in over their heads, it's on the bank to do the necessary due diligence before issuing the loan. I don't know what's typical in other states or areas, but some of the practices I've seen here are pretty dumb. When I was house shopping two years ago, I did look at some places that were forclosures. The practice here is that bank takes possession and then shuts off all utilities. In the middle part of MI, the water table is high and all basements are required to have sump pumps. Some of those houses were overtaken by black mold and I wouldn't even consider giving half of the bank's asking price. ...banks can be just as guilty in destroying their own collateral, but hey, they made a good business decision and saved some money on utilities.

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:36 am

from what i've always understood, they were bailed out to try to prevent bankruptcy and i think what most are ticked off the most with is that they had to file for it anyway and now the people who the company owed money including the money from tax payers that the govt gave them is not owed by the new reformed company

kdlewis1975 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:59 am

JeepinJarhead03 wrote:

from what i've always understood, they were bailed out to try to prevent bankruptcy and i think what most are ticked off the most with is that they had to file for it anyway and now the people who the company owed money including the money from tax payers that the govt gave them is not owed by the new reformed company

Fair enough, and I agree with you. I enjoy reading this forum, but some stuff is so polarized or taken out of context sometimes that it leaves me scratching my head. Looking back, if they were going to do something, they probably should have done it in the first place instead of throwing money at it and seeing what would happen. I feel that the companies owe the taxpayers, but then again, if that liability is left in place (of course this really depends on how repayment is structured and there's no reason this could be flexible) it could hinder their efforts to become strong companies once again...if that's even possible. I'm not trying to pick a fight...just trying to view things with cautious optimism.

Now that the UAW is a major stakeholder, it will be interesting to see how they operate. They won't be able to be the parasites they once were if they're hoping to see this venture payoff. ...I'm not anti-union, just anti-stupid-union.

Kudos to Ford for at least getting their ducks in a row and not requiring "help." But given the potential advantages that the new Chrysler and GM are going to see, it seems that maybe they should just follow them into bankruptcy to level the playing field. Of course, they could use this fact as leverage and get things that need to be negotiated redone.

Hopefully, all of this turns out for the best and we're back to talking about how awesome our Jeeps are, or at least concentrate on how to keep them running :wink:

, instead of concentrating on dissenting views of government.

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:16 pm

well i've heard several times that ford may end up having to file within the next 10 months, ford had already got their money before the economic flop occured, so i guess you could actually say that ford was worse off than gm / chrysler in some aspects but in any case they're burning through it pretty fast because so few people can afford to buy a car, they're just scared

i hate talking about this stuff but...

walking around with my head in the sand doesn't do any good either

when my GF starts raving and ranting, i usually end up saying something like ' You're Pretty.... '

I guess we're just going to have to start saying ' I like jEEpS! '

CATCRD · **Posted:** Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:09 pm

Did anyone else get the letter in the mail yesterday from Chrysler stating that warranty contracts from previous purchases will be seamlessly transferred to the new entity?

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:31 pm

No, but they have already told me that their Almighty Computer has deemed that I do not deserve the warranty that I received when I bought the car... So I'm not surprised they haven't included me in this either. The only hope I have is to push one of the dealers that didn't suck to see if they can fix this mess and re-activate my 7/70. But since I'm already out of pocket for the engine and transmission... Why should I waste the energy for 8k miles of "we won't pay for it anyway" BS?

Both the dealers that I went to for my CRD, one in S.Fl and one in Savannah are on the hitlist. Aww, I'm crying inside for them. NOT.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:38 pm

CATCRD wrote:

Did anyone else get the letter in the mail yesterday from Chrysler stating that warranty contracts from previous purchases will be seamlessly transferred to the new entity?

I have not as of today :roll:

To anybody who ever considered suing Chrysler or GM

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