Green Diesel Engineering - KJ ECU tuner (NEW)

ColoradoCRD · **Joined:** Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:25 am **Posts:** 60

First, thank you for your participation and product.

I have never had a tune and approach this with in ignorance. While I understand critical engine functions are controled by a chip, I don't understand the details and compromises involved in a tune. I appreciate that manufacturers may unnecesarily over compensate performance for the sake of reliability and/or reduced warranty claims.

The big question in mind is how a tuner developer "know best".

Along those lines, where does your company and programmers come from and on what basis do you have the qualifications to better engineer the manufacturer's product? Before I seriously consider investing to tune my diesel, please sell me on your qualifications to develop and install a quality software program. Why should I have confidence in your product?

thanks!

DocB · **Posted:** Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:04 pm

x2.

I've been seriously waiting for something like this and would like to know.

Turn OFF EGR, power, economy, safely done with reliability and longevity in mind.

All parameters tunable.

I'm familiar with SCT, and was hoping that you could also allow us to tweek the tune.

Possible?

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

Read your site...

I have the Suncoast TC and the shift kit and SEGR already, with no tune. Is this tune going to be softer than it needs to be on my equipment? I would just assume have as much power as the motor can produce safely. As for the transmission's life, it is a POS anyway-- so if it goes, I will rebuild it into something better.

I see a "stage II" turbo upgrade "in development". Ummm, you cannot tease us in this fashion. Now... what is this stage II you speak of?

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:39 am

It's about time! Thanks GDE.

jax'sCRD · **Joined:** Sun May 31, 2009 2:34 pm **Posts:** 3

I know I am new here, but I have had my CRD 3 yrs now. It has all its 'shots' from the 'dealers', and has passed the 80k mark. Other than the ABS controler shutting the dash off it has been a great truck. I am now thinking of playing with it and looking for ways to get away from the factory programming without loosing control and the dash again, but i will not change anything if I dont feel confidant about a product. And one of the first things I always look for is a real live person to talk to... After checking out the Green Diesiel web sight, I find no phone number... Just pull my ECU and send it to them? Call me sceptic please, but lets get a real live person here, not a web page... jax

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:52 am

I would give the gents at GDE one word of advice - with the present administration, and the new management and policies of the EPA, I would be VERY hesitant as to publicly stating that their tune completely shuts off the EGR - ie, defeats the installed emissions hardware - regardless of their disclaimer that this tune is for off-road use only.

In the recent past, the EPA has heavily fined and put out of business some aftermarket suppliers that sold devices or whatnot who publicly advertised their goods would defeat installed emissions hardware and/or software. And with the recent changes in Washington, I see the EPA only becoming even more draconian in that regard.

Off hand, the way you state to have addressed testing and calibration of the tune - taking all aspects, including timing, into consideration - looks spot on with a quality tune. And using the EGR as a built-in surge control device for the turbo, allowing you to increase boost levels, shows someone willing to think outside the box in finding solutions.

From the way I've seen Big Ed - the 3 1/2 megawatt DeLaval Enterprise dual-fuel diesel genarator at work - react with different boost levels as far as cylinder temps, fuel consumption, and ability to carry load - I'd hazard a guess that increased boost levels are one of the factors besides timing and the other tweaks behind your increased fuel economy claims.

Pretty impressive when you can watch a 35,000 cubic inch inline 8 diesel crank out 3 1/2 megawatts and only burn 15 gallons of diesel an hour - the bulk taken up by natural gas - and realize the technology behind it is over 40 years old - no electronics, pneumatic air logic circuits and mechanical/hydraulic controls.

At that, would the increased boost levels be within the limits of the stock intercooler hoses and the intercooler itself, much less high quality hoses such as made by Samco? There has been an issue with the original hoses failing over time, and from what I remember of the FSM there is a limitation on the intercooler itself as to how much pressure it can handle (ie, pressure limit stated in the FSM when testing for leaks).

On your "known issues" page, you mentioned engine misfiring under light load as being mainly related to timing. I find that rather curious - the only issues I ever had with engine misfiring and missing were caused by air in the original vacuum fuel supply setup - venting the filter on occasion, attempting to eliminate any air leaks, and later going to a different filter setup and the addition of a lift pump made that problem disappear entirely even with the factory tune, and made a noticeable difference in the way the engine ran and performed.

At that, your "known issues" page seems a little on the light side, with no mention of some issues that have been addressed here on LOST - such as the intercooler hoses and vacuum fuel system mentioned above, not to mention problems with the original fuel filter and fuel heater setup.

I would definitely like a more thorough explanation of how your tune handles the weak-kneed stock torque converter. Increased HP and torque levels while at the same time adjusting parameters and shifting to prevent overstressing the stock TC would seem to be at odds with one another on the face of it. Does it simply unlock the TC clutch under certain conditions, or does it command the tranny to downshift into a non-lockup gear, ie, from 4th or 5th down into 3rd? The mental picture of dropping the engine and tranny from 5th into 3rd at 70 mph isn't comforting.

FWIW, with a Suncoast TC and the proper fluid, in my case TCC shudder in lockup is a non-issue now. And the idea of "dancing around" the issue of the stock torque converter by tweaking the engine and the rest of the drivetrain smacks a little too much of F37 for my tastes.

The turbocharger upgrade you mentioned is intriguing, considering the problems some have had with their turbos. At the least, the possibility of having a higher quality and more reliable aftermarket option is appealing. Perhaps part of the reason behind using the EGR as a surge control? If available, some more details on this would be welcome. Would the turbo upgrade also require upgrading/replacing the intercooler hoses and/or the intercooler?

So far, what you're offering is interesting enough to have gotten my attention. Let's see how things play out.

kdlewis1975 · **Posted:** Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:03 am

I've been pondering whether or not I'd like to get the Inmotion tune and it's great to find that someone dedicated a good amount of effort to provide another option for the CRD.

I've been one of the lucky ones in that I haven't had a turbo hose blow out (yet). I think some of the issue here was that Mopar originally had silicone-lined hoses (mild oil resistance) rather than the fluorosilicone-lined hoses (excellent oil resistance) that Samco makes. I'm aware that Mopar revised the part and they may have started putting fluorosilicone-lined hoses on the Jeeps. Because mine is a rather late build, I may already have the updated hoses. The amount of boost GDE is dealing with may only be on the order of a few pounds in strategic areas of the rpm/load range. Overall it may only be 10 psi or so on the max output...making it 30 psi? Unless they're able to increase it to 50 psi or something like that, I don't think a hose bursting due only to the pressure should be an issue...oil soaked old versions would be an issue. Anyone know what the absolute maximum amount of boost is for our turbo spinning at max safe rpm (assuming atm pressure at sea level) is?

Though we're after more details from GDE, I would like to applaud them on the detail of their website. They do a decent job in terms of describing what their tune does. I've looked that Inmotion's site and in reality, it's pretty light on details...and I think we're generally okay with this since numerous people in the U.S. and Europe use Inmotion and we "know" what we're getting. I'm seriously considering trying GDE once we learn more details. I think a lot of us (I am) are concerned that these guys may not be in business after a couple of years and if we need support in terms of a reflash or something, we'll be out of luck.

Retmil...agreed...perhaps they should express the EGR thing in this manner: "We've optimized the use of the of the EGR valve to maximum power and fuel ecomony and minimize soot formation while also preserving its function as a surge-control device to guard against turbo failure." Those who frequent here pretty much know that means "off."

GDE sort of addressed this the other day but I was still a little confused: I suspect their tune won't have a problem with the SEGR, but will it still provide the anti-surge function?

GDE...these guys aren't trying to be difficult. You just happened (purposely) to advertise on a forum where numerous people are enthusiasts (maybe lunatics is a better word :wink:

) and very knowledgeable in regards to their CRDs. We're not trying to give you a hard time, but trying to perform due diligence before people take the plunge. Good luck.

jax'sCRD · **Joined:** Sun May 31, 2009 2:34 pm **Posts:** 3

Just to through this out there, could GDE be trying to become a leader in green technology for Diesel power plants? I have been arount Diesels all my life, military, Heavys, and OTR, and they are to me the power plant of the future. My question for GDE might fall under there mission statement of there company, are they willing to start with a small market, the CRD, to gain a name in the industry? If so I do think they are on the right track, in tryiing to give the Diesel plant a better name in service and drivability. But at this point I still have to remain sceptical, software programs exsist in all forms of 'testing' in the manufaturing industry. Could this be one that 'just got out' of the enginners hands? If so GREAT! It might be the way it was planned to be, before the EPA got there fingers in there..... Just thinking... would like to know more.....Sorry If I sound bitter, just would like to get past all the smoke and mirrors.... The CRD has enough already.... :lol:

stoutdog · **Posted:** Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:37 pm

x3 retmil: GDE should definitely rephrase their statements about turning off the EGR. I, for one, plan on letting a few other folks test this tune out before I take the plunge... If it really does work, I don't want the EPA coming down on them before I get my tune!

TO GDE: Here and on your website you state that you have done extensive testing with this tune on Jeep Liberty CRDs. I think the question that a number of people are beating around is will this tune work within the limitations of the stock TC/tranny setup? This is the one major downfall of InMotion, so you would have a number of us highly interested if we can avoid going down the Suncoast route.... $800 on top of an expensive tune is really steep these days...

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:00 pm

Has the stock TC indeed been proven to be inadequate to handle the increased power of a tune? Who has had a TC failure which was definetly atributible to an increase in HP/torque?

jinstall · **Posted:** Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:55 pm

JL Rockies wrote:

linewarbr wrote:

I am very, very curious about something:

Why do you only offer service for the 2005 and 2006 Jeep Liberty CRD? You have picked an extremely small demographic for your work. I don't know if we have any real solid numbers on how many were made and sold, but I think an estimate we can agree on is about 25,000 vehicles in the U.S. and Canada for 2005 and 2006 model years.

Let's say you get access to 5,000 of those ECU's. (20%, a VERY optimistic estimate) After that, what then?

Seems like a strange target for a startup company. Either you are a certified KJ CRD nut, (which means you would already be on this forum somewhere) or else you obtained some statistics from a Gallup poll that showed that Jeep Liberty CRD owners spend WAAAAAAYYYY too much disposable income on their whips. . .

I am going to go out on a limb and say it's because it's a US company that has access to US vehicles which means 2005 and 2006 CRD. That question reminds me of my time at JL Audio when we would occasionally get questions from European distributors on why we didn't make a Stealthbox for ____ European vehicle. We would always say, ship whatever vehicle you want us to work on to us and we'll make you a product.

You need the vehicle so you can work on it and test it.

One of those shpops was my friends in Germany, Car Com Service in Mainz. My reply back to that was for someone to go to Mexico and get a car from there, cheaper , faster adn less money. No one replied to my email. Thanks JL Audio.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:11 pm

Quote:

Has the stock TC indeed been proven to be inadequate to handle the increased power of a tune? Who has had a TC failure which was definetly atributible to an increase in HP/torque?

ME. I killed mine with a Predator box in a week. I could hear it slipping a little more each day. It's very easy to repeat. Just hit some on-ramps and give it about 1/4 throttle all the way up. When it locks @50 mph you can hear and feel the torque converter slipping bad. It won't slip at higher rpm's. It also won't slip without the Predator box. Just my observation with mine.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:32 pm

onthehunt wrote:

Quote:

Has the stock TC indeed been proven to be inadequate to handle the increased power of a tune? Who has had a TC failure which was definetly atributible to an increase in HP/torque?

ME. I killed mine with a Predator box in a week. I could hear it slipping a little more each day. It's very easy to repeat. Just hit some on-ramps and give it about 1/4 throttle all the way up. When it locks @50 mph you can hear and feel the torque converter slipping bad. It won't slip at higher rpm's. It also won't slip without the Predator box. Just my observation with mine.

Interesting. As I understand it, the GDE tune is mild in the lower rpm range but kicks in in the upper range where there should be no slipping per your description.

ribbon · **Posted:** Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:04 pm

yeah i am a little hesitant to order from one that :
Has no number
Has a PO box only
Site it registered to "anonymous"

edit: they just added a number. (248) 977-9531

stoutdog · **Posted:** Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:05 pm

GDE has updated their mpg estimates... I would like to see an estimate with a stock 2006, since I don't have all-terrain tires and whatnot at the moment.

2005KJ Stock Hardware

City Circuit 1 (70 F, no AC)

Stock Liberty = 17 mpg
Tuned Liberty = 22 mpg

60 mph cruise (70 F, no AC)

Stock Liberty = 31 mpg
Tuned Liberty = 36 mpg

70 mph cruise (70 F, no AC)

Stock Liberty = 27 mpg
Tuned Liberty = 32 mpg

2006KJ Abused Driveline, All-terrain tires

60 mph cruise (70 F, no AC)

Stock Liberty = 29 mpg
Tuned Liberty = 33 mpg

70 mph cruise (70 F, no AC)

Stock Liberty = 25 mpg
Tuned Liberty = 28 mpg

I'd like to see estimates for the 2006 in-town driving as well. And seeing as how i can get 27-28 in my bone stock '06 @ 70mph already, maybe some more extensive testing is in order.

What we really need is a few guinea pigs from LOST to test GDE out on their stock CRDs and see what happens. :twisted:

stoutdog · **Posted:** Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:12 pm

ribbon wrote:

yeah i am a little hesitant to order from one that :
Has no number
Has a PO box only
Site it registered to "anonymous"

edit: they just added a number. (248) 977-9531

It's registered to a Keith Cavallini in Sunnyvalle, CA.

Someone more knowledge about these things than me should give them a ring.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

We have updated the web site www.greendieselengineering.com and now have opened office hours with a contact number. We will offer 50% discount on the first ten phone orders, to get some early product reviews and more fuel economy data. Thanks again for all the interest.

ribbon · **Posted:** Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:36 pm

very cool that you updated contact info. Anonymous was kinda scary

thinking of ordering tomorrow. will let everyone knows how it goes. I cant have my car down long. if i overnight will i get it back overnight?

linewarbr · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:41 am

GDE,

Is that 1/2 off the advertised $550 price, or 1/2 off the original price? (since the $550 was supposed to be 25% off already)

bugnout · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:12 am

Just talked to Kieth at GDE and placed an order. I'll get my ECU out to him on Wednesday.

When I was stock, I hit the mythical 30 mpg, but usually got about 26 on the highway, 24 combined and about 22 towing.
Today with larger tires, 4:10's and a bit more weight on my frame, I get 22 highway, 20 combined, and 18 towing.

For a baseline, I don't have a tune of any kind, my MAF has been unplugged for about 2 years now. I use a scangauge to clear the CEL. I don't have a SEGR installed. Its only been to the dealer twice, first to have had the new TC installed by DC and to have the EGR replaced.

Other mods of interest but probably won't affect my results: in-tank lift pump, Racor fuel head.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Green Diesel Engineering - KJ ECU tuner (NEW)

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