CRD for me??

Trekker · **Joined:** Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:42 am **Posts:** 33

I am seriously thinking about making an offer on an 06 CRD Sport in my area. I have been following the forum for the last two weeks or so, trying to make sense of all the mods you guys are doing.

I am VERY interested in a CRD and have been since they first came out, but wonder if I really should take the plunge. I own a 05 Sport Libby. I take very good care of my vehicles, but I am not the type who likes to be working on them all of the time, and all of my cars have been pretty much stock.

Am I the kind of guy for a CRD or am I biting off more than I should try?

Thoughts?

Thanks![/i]

stoutdog · **Posted:** Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:46 am

Our CRDs have a few minor quirks, most of which can be solved with a GDE tune. I HIGHLY recommend you get one.

If you purchase the CRD, I would also recommend a MAP/CAC Hose clean, which takes two hours at most. There are instructions in the CRD Tech forum.

Also, unplug the fuel heater element. Takes two seconds, plug it back in when you need it. It is a minor potential fire hazard.

Other than that, you can pretty much leave the vehicle as stock and be just fine. I added in a higher quality air filter, had a flow-thru muffler installed, and *may* bother with a Provent-like device. None of these are absolutely necessary, though others may argue otherwise about the Provent (CCV filter).

Most folks on here love to mod, though, and will take any excuse to open up the hood. I would strongly advise that you do a good bit of research before installing any mods. You may find that some aren't as necessary as others would like them to appear (except the GDE tune, of course, I have yet to see a single negative review

)

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:08 am

Don't forget a lift pump. It's a morning's work and is well worth the weird problems saved down the road.

Trekker · **Joined:** Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:42 am **Posts:** 33

Thanks for the input stoutdog. This is very reassuring.

I will have to do some reading since I have not heard about the lift pump issue.

The CRD I am looking at was built in 06. Were there fewer issues with the 06 builds than the earlier ones?

I am doing some long highway drives these days (from SE Utah to S AZ). I am hoping a CRD will lower some of the fuel costs as well as be as good offroad as my 05 Sport (gasser).

THANKS!

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:
Our CRDs have a few minor quirks, most of which can be solved with a GDE tune

Close, but not quite the entire story. The CRD has an excellent engine, one of the best Chrysler 5 speed trannies made and a good body for most users. It suffers from a poor quality/under spec'd torque converter from the factory and a few other weak points:

OEM fuel manager - leaks and burns out, along with what is considered by some to be inadequate filtration size for over 100K life of a HPCR system. Can be solved easily with $$.

EGR issues - can be solved with an ORM, a SEGR or one of a couple of tunes available for the ECM. Some have successfully used the factory EGR system with little problems. Others have not been so successful.

Ball Joints/UJoints - easily solved, but be aware that the free upgrades from Chrysler wear out just as fast as the originals - I've been through it with 2 liberties since 2002. Moogs will solve that one also for some $$ out of your own pocket.

Engine oil from the factory CCV system ends up in the intercooler and CAC hoses - solvable, from a range of solutions costing little $$ (EHM) to ~ $150 (Provent).

Regardless, the torque converter is the one issue that can cause some grief - the GDE tune does not solve this issue, but rather works around it. The weak TC is still there. We don't have enough information to know how its going to work out long term. One poster found the TC shudder still there with the GDE tune when towing, but at a reduced level. If the GDE tune actually solved the issue, the shudder would not be present when towing. Generally speaking, this kind of powertrain issue dosen't improve with time and mileage. No amount of engine tuning will replace a mechanically weak component, but as GDE has done, it can minimize the conditions under which that weakness appears. If you want a higher level of confidence in the reliability of a CRD powertrain, plan on a replacement TC of your choice, at least in terms of $$.

To answer your question, if you don't like working on your vehicle, it's not a problem with the CRD, as long as you address the issues that you can't live with. That means either doing it yourself or hiring someone else to do it. Factor in a new TC and a few other mods $$ wise for a worst case financial scenario and you can decide intelligently from there if the CRD is right for you.

Good luck.

Trekker · **Joined:** Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:42 am **Posts:** 33

Thanks, this gives me more data to chew on.

Were any of the TC issues solved with the later 06 builds, or is it the same story?

stoutdog · **Posted:** Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:32 pm

Same story, we all have the weaker TC.

If you aren't towing often, I wouldn't really worry about it. I hardly ever tow and the weak TC has never really been an issue for me. In daily driving conditions, the GDE tune will not cause TC shudder and it will actually make shifting noticeably smoother. Until today, I had never heard of it even shuddering under load... interesting

. Until the Euro TC gets over here (GDE is working on that, I believe), a TC replacement is very expensive. If I ever experience shudder, I'll think about it. Until then, I'm happy as is.

Ranger1 is right, there are a few additional things that may need attention. The OEM fuel filter/manager is an easy fix. I was more worried about the filter than anything else (10 micron, stock, I believe?), so I've added a Wix that is 2-3 micron instead.

I must say that GDE turns off the EGR valve without tripping a check engine light. With GDE, the EGR is only used in tip-out maneuvers, as a means of balancing turbo boost pressure (something like that). In that situation, it actually blows the opposite direction... no more soot will be entering your engine with the GDE tune, period.

Ball joints were a factory recall. Ranger has apparently had a few bad ones, but my father and I both own CRDs with the new ball joints and have had no issues.

And I told you someone would mention a Provent

. Nothing wrong with it, I'm just trying to determine if it is as necessary as people say it is. FWIW, GDE claims that it is not needed.

Hope you're sufficiently confused now

Trekker · **Joined:** Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:42 am **Posts:** 33

I must admit to some confusion on all the CRD issues! BUT it looks like the GDE tune is a must.

I get an honest 22 mpg on the highway with my 05 (gas) KJ (running offroad tires). Am I correct that with the tune I could expect to beat that significantly with the CRD?

Thanks!

stoutdog · **Posted:** Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:10 pm

You can expect to beat 22mpg driving your CRD in town with a GDE tune

There are a number of GDE "experience" threads on here. This is mine: http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=45537

As you can see, I got 25+ in town on a tank that was only partially burned with the GDE tuned ECM. Maybe more like 27-28 after the tune.

I will have highway #s to report on Wednesday and Friday, 4 total tanks, so be sure to check back. I expect to get somewhere in the mid 30s. These CRDs are one of a kind!

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:
Ball joints were a factory recall. Ranger has apparently had a few bad ones, but my father and I both own CRDs with the new ball joints and have had no issues.

I'll diverge a bit here from the thread, because the ball joint issue is really not a mod at all, it's a critical safety issue. Actually, we all have some low quality ball joints if they're factory installed. This is the one upgrade that really stands in a class by itself as mandatory because if one of these fails, it can kill you and someone else, literally, if you loose a wheel while driving. Look at the main section on LOST for some excellent HOW-TO's on how to check and replace them. There have been a few reports of the wheels falling off of the vehicle while backing out of driveways. It's critical to check them because that's what's attaching your front wheels to the vehicle. This is not CRD specific but it is common on the Liberty.

The deceptive part about worn ball joints is that they don't feel like they're a problem until it's at a really bad place. My 2nd set on my 02 didn't feel bad when driving, but when I jacked it up and did the test I discovered they had too much play in them. That set was less than 2 years old at that time and had been replaced by a Jeep dealership in the first recall. That vehicle had never towed anything. If you don't do any other mod, make sure this one is done. When I replaced the factory ones on my CRD, they were worn, but at least they both fit tightly in the control arms.

I remember a couple of Jeep mechanics discussing the issue of low quality ball joint replacements a few years back on Jeepforum. One of them stated that he went through a dozen sets of new ones before he found a set that were not too loose to install. I remembered that when I pulled the knuckle joints off of my 02 and when I put the press on it, the right ball joint fell out with barely a turn on the screw, while the other took quite an effort.

This is far too loose fitting to be safe. When I examined the lower control arm socket where the ball joint is pressed into, I found that the Jeep dealership had also known that the replacement ball joint was too loose fitting because they had used a chisel to cut a score mark into the socket in order to help seat the ball joint tighter. Sloppy work and dangerous. Fortunately, that dealership is now out of business.

I used a Dremel tool to remove the score mark and pressed a set of Moogs in. The Moogs fit very tightly in the same lower control arm socket that the Chrysler part wouldn't stay put in and have now been in for longer than the first set lasted. They're still tight when tested with the wheel lifted up.

This is one area I wouldn't take for granted if you buy a new CRD - jack the vehicle up and check it yourself. IIRC, there is a video out that shows exactly how to do that test.

Good luck.

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:13 am

I asked myself the same thing weeks ago...... For a week and a day I have been driving my Beautiful green CRD. I love it. its stock I have not looked into the GDE TUne I may. I figured after driving one I wanted it and I would deal with its few shortcommings. I need to look at my EGR before winter and clean it, change my fuel filter too. other than that I do not plan to mod mine much if at all. I just want to drive it, enjoy itand keep it running good. its the only vehicle i have.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:28 am

stoutdog wrote:

The OEM fuel filter/manager is an easy fix. I was more worried about the filter than anything else (10 micron, stock, I believe?), so I've added a Wix that is 2-3 micron instead.

Wix states their filter is speced at 10 Micron.

Mopar is Speced at 3 Micron.

Racor, Cummins, and Cat have filters speced at 2 micron.

Ranger1: X2 on checking ball joints. I have seen Liberty's driving around with front ends so bad I am surprised they did not drop to the ground.
Unlike some cars, our Liberty's don't have negative front camber where bottom of the wheel tips out. If you ever suspect you have negative front when you look at the front dead on, check the ball joints or have them checked pronto, don't put it off.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:06 pm

what is the procedure for checking ball joints on this rig?

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:18 pm

flash7210 wrote:

what is the procedure for checking ball joints on this rig?

KJ FSM p 66
1.5mm = 0.059"
Personally, I would replace the ball joint sooner with less slop, 0.020" is enough slop for me.

Some may want to take the slop all the way to the Chrysler recommendation, after all it is a Free Country.

Trekker · **Joined:** Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:42 am **Posts:** 33

Turns out that I could not make a deal on the 06 CRD. The dealership obviously was not hungry enough and I was too stubborn in wanting a good price for my trade.

Now I must decide if I should wait for another CRD or look for something else.

Is there a midsized SUV that has low range gear AND gets decent mileage? If so I don't know about it!

If I weren't living in a National Park in the middle of nowhere, I could sell my KJ myself and have a lot easier time buying another vehicle....

stoutdog · **Posted:** Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:52 pm

I think you should wait it out.

For someone living in the middle of nowhere, the CRD is an ideal vehicle. If you must ever use NPS roads (and, oh boy, we know how fun those can be), or if you ever tow, there is no other vehicle that gets mileage in the 30s on the market. Well, maybe a VW or something, but those would cost $$$$ and still not be able to handle those nasty service roads.

I am doing a little work for the parks service this year and the CRD should serve me well. Even if I wasn't working with the parks, I would be visiting them enough that the CRD's off-road capabilities + it's on-road mileage would be a must.

I'm getting mileage comparable to a Toyota Corolla, in a car that can tow, go off-road, and hold a heck of a lot more! It is DEFINITELY worth the wait!

moto-scoot · **Posted:** Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:50 pm

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/searchres ... 0480613777

plus some for sale here in jeeps & jeep parts[/url]

danoid · **Posted:** Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:55 am

Trekker wrote:

Turns out that I could not make a deal on the 06 CRD. The dealership obviously was not hungry enough and I was too stubborn in wanting a good price for my trade.

Now I must decide if I should wait for another CRD or look for something else.

Is there a midsized SUV that has low range gear AND gets decent mileage? If so I don't know about it!

If I weren't living in a National Park in the middle of nowhere, I could sell my KJ myself and have a lot easier time buying another vehicle....

IMO there is no other vehicle that comes close to doing so many things fairly well.
30 mpg (with mods)
5000# trailer (or more)
4WD / off road (better with mods)
survives impacts w/ other objects
under $30k initial purchase price

The next runner up is the Grand Cherokee diesel - 24 mpg / 7200# trailer / 4WD but with a better stereo.

But because Chrysler is doing so well

both of those vehicles are out of production.

CRD for me??

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