P0093 Fuel System Leak, Mr. Dealer and Satisfaction

abhester3 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:57 am **Posts:** 39

The CRD is under warranty (or is until Chrysler decides it isn't like in another thread :roll:

) and has been in with CEL, stalling, surging and bucking, limp mode w/ code P0093, air is leaking into the fuel system.

Of course, all they did was follow their flow chart, when it got to 'bleed fuel system' everything is repaired according to the service dept. The service chick says the fuel system was 'visually inspected for leaks', etc. (how they SEE a vacuum leak is beyond me) and got all huffy when I suggested they had only fixed the symptom and not the problem, now she doesn't like me any more :cry:

. The service manager then started to explain how to bleed the system :shock:

, I 'splained I've worked on diesels half of my life and, basically, it shouldn't be getting air in the system in the first place...

Of course, now the problem is back, CEL is on, etc. two tanks of fuel later. How do I motivate the Stealer to repair this or at least replace some O-rings? Any magic incantations or secret handshakes to use? Thanks!

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:08 pm

if you're having air - odds are very high that the heater plug is leaking fuel out
just pull the plug point to the fuel and say that's not supposed to be there.

and FYI - O rings won't work - they need the new fuel head

well our picture of the burned heater plug appears to have gone away
so this is the thread with the picture of the new fuel head and heater plug
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=381161#381161

you'll have to use you imagination - but at least 1 has been burned enough for the pins to be gone.

probably wouldn't hurt to point out that Chrysler redesigned the fuel head - and give them the numbers for the new parts
(if that doesn't work you can order them yourself from Mopar Parts <$100 and 15 minute install)

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

There is an active TSB where the customer needs to complain about excessive bleeding of the fuel filter and, more importantly, long starts that happen continually in all conditions. If the vehicle is under warranty, the fuel filter head assembly is replaced by the dealer with the new unit that alleviates all of these issues.

We replaced the assemblies on both of our test mules at cost to alleviate these and other issues we had. Since replacing the filter assembly, no issues at all with air in fuel or long cranks.

linewarbr · **Posted:** Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:19 pm

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

There is an active TSB where the customer needs to complain about excessive bleeding of the fuel filter and, more importantly, long starts that happen continually in all conditions. If the vehicle is under warranty, the fuel filter head assembly is replaced by the dealer with the new unit that alleviates all of these issues.

We replaced the assemblies on both of our test mules at cost to alleviate these and other issues we had. Since replacing the filter assembly, no issues at all with air in fuel or long cranks.

Do you have part number for the new fuel head? Do you know what, if any, CRD's came from the factory equipped with this head? I have not had any issues with mine. (knock on wood)

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:49 pm

Lift pump.

kccrd · **Joined:** Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:35 pm **Posts:** 267

The new fuel head unit part # is 68043089-AA Fuel Separator 68043086-AA Fuel Wiring Kit new wires and plug for heater element 30 minute job max to replace both. I am on my 4Th fuel filter head unit all replaced for free I just had to take the old unit back so they could get credit from Jeep. The last one seemed to solve all the air in fuel problems and no leaks at the heater plug. I have not had to prime once in about a year and the heater plug has stayed completely dry. Plus no limp modes. I have not had any problems in about 35,000 miles. I also run B-100 all the time when it is warm come October I will have to go back to B-20 until next March 15 or so. I have not had any problem with the parts guy replacing my fuel head unit at all since the plug for the heater started to burn and smoke. Good luck

tcoilburner · **Posted:** Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:23 am

nursecosmo wrote:

Lift pump.

Don't mask the problem, fix it! My fuel system worked fine until the fuel head had a leak, with the lift pump I may never have found it til it leaked fuel. The new design fuel head seems to have it running like the last 35,000 miles. :wink:

The dealer covered mine 06 just out of warranty at 36750 miles. The tech at the dealer called chrysler techincal line to find out that they have problems with the fuel heads (my is the only Liberty crd they see, normally they work on sprinter vans and dodge trucks).

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:46 am

tcoilburner wrote:

nursecosmo wrote:

Lift pump.

Don't mask the problem, fix it! My fuel system worked fine until the fuel head had a leak, with the lift pump I may never have found it til it leaked fuel. The new design fuel head seems to have it running like the last 35,000 miles. :wink:

The dealer covered mine 06 just out of warranty at 36750 miles. The tech at the dealer called chrysler techincal line to find out that they have problems with the fuel heads (my is the only Liberty crd they see, normally they work on sprinter vans and dodge trucks).

There are many here that have a lift pump because of air in the fuel and the fuel head is not leaking. Why you might ask? That is because there is air in the fuel to began with. When you shut off your vehicle the check valve holds the fuel head under vacuum and that strips the air bubbles out of the fuel exposing the heating element to air when it is designed to be submerged. This results in poor start conditions, constant priming and heater element burning out.

The lift pump runs for 30 seconds after the engine is shut off adding a little pressure to the fuel head. That keep the air in the fuel from being stripped out of the fuel and the problems mention. There is a few that seen the fuel head leak right away after installing the lift pump. That is because the fuel heater was already damaged before the lift pump. Those that installed a lift pump never had to replace the fuel head again afterward. I caught mine early so I'm on my original fuel head and expect no trouble with it for I already put over 60,000 miles with 78,000 total mile on the CRD.

abhester3 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:57 am **Posts:** 39

This vehicle had 'Separator' P/N 68043089AA and 'Wiring Ki' P/N 68043086AA installed 7/21/09 by the previous owner at his expense ($135.79 for the two from Miller's Chrysler Jeep, Martinsburg, WV), less than 3,000 miles ago by my rekoning. I'm guessing he had the same problem, though he forgot to mention it to me, and Jeep was giving him the run-around. I've had the fuel heater unplugged since a few days after I bought it. There are no burned contacts or 'hot' looking plastic on this new filter/head/separator.

Is the above P/N the 'new' fuel head/separator/filter-housing? Are they known for vacuum leaks when basically new?

Headed to the dealer Friday, they claim there are no tech service bulletins about the CRD and, interestingly, are now wanting $109 a pop to fool with it. I guess the squeaky wheel does in fact get the grease or the #$&^g, one or the other!

Thanks for all the info!

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:39 pm

So those who said it was the filter head and not to mask it with a lift pump were all wet :shock:

Having had this problem from the very beginning of ownership back in May of 06 I suggest you install a lift pump :lol:

Dealers have been little to no help on this problem :cry:

abhester3 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:57 am **Posts:** 39

I understand the lift pump fix completely, I have a FASS on my '99 Cummins Dodge, but only AFTER suffering the VP44 blues thanks to Chryslers cheapaszzness. The Carter lift pump had been replaced during warranty but they denied it had ANYTHING to do with the subsequent VP44 failure a few thousand miles later, first one they'd ever seen fail, yessiree, nobody's ever heard of that happening before... Hard to believe Chrysler, after the VP44 and Carter lift pump debacle, put NO lift pump on the CRD, go figure.

BUT this CRD is still under warranty, I'd almost bet my bottom dollar they'd deny warranty on about anything with a lift pump installed: "That pump caused the injection pump failure", "That pump raised fuel pressures and, hence, output, resulting in engine/trans/TC/driveshaft/dif/axle/etc failure, caused the paint to peel and the back glass to leak as well..." I hate to be a cynic but I've dealt with dealers before, if I had no warranty I'd install the Cummins tank lift pump this weekend. I just find it hard to believe that's the only solution, maybe these fuel heads are good or bad out of the box, maybe some fuel lines need replacing, maybe I'm grasping at straws

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:42 pm

I get a kick out of some of the expert newbys we have had lately.

abhester3: As far as I know, no one has had a problem getting warranty work done with a lift pump installed. If you are concerned about it anyway, you can always do an in-tank installation, and they will never know.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:04 am

The other source of potential leaks are the fuel line connectors at the tank - they're quick release that are great for pressure systems - and hard to seal for vacuum systems.

as to noticing lift pumps, most dealers are so clueless - they wouldn't know that it was different - it would take someone who understood diesels to know that's different - and to someone who understands diesels - that's okay.

chrispitude · **Posted:** Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:25 am

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

There is an active TSB where the customer needs to complain about excessive bleeding of the fuel filter and, more importantly, long starts that happen continually in all conditions. If the vehicle is under warranty, the fuel filter head assembly is replaced by the dealer with the new unit that alleviates all of these issues.

GDE, do you have any sort of TSB number or other reference we could use when walking into a service department asking for this? Dealers like to pull the "we can't find any such TSB" card too often...

- Chris

abhester3 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:57 am **Posts:** 39

nursecosmo, I appologize, I wasn't trying to come across as an expert, only that I understand the nature of the problem, know my way around a diesel from several decades of practical dirt-poor-down-on-the-farm experience but need advice about specific dealership warranty repairs. The warranty has a cost and Chrysler should be able to repair this, not ALL of them w/o lift pump can be stalling every morning despite the new filter assy!

I also understand the clueless nature of dealerships, especially when it suits them, as in "What TSB, huh?", and everything they see has a fuel pump so it shouldn't be a big deal as long as there's no big red FASS or Holley howling away. It's the capricious nature of dealerships that worries me re. warranty denial...

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:07 am

abhester3 wrote:

, not ALL of them w/o lift pump can be stalling every morning despite the new filter assy!

The problem as you stated is they all don't have the symptoms :lol:

Having been on this group for a long time I see a lot of people say there's not a problem. But I think the long and short of it is they don't want to recognize that there is a problem. Further they don't know about LOST and are giving up getting help from the dealer and trading them in :wink:

This brings a batch of new owners that are "dirt poor" (aren't we all) that have some diesel knowledge here and they're trying to get dealer help under a warranty when they discover the problem. Bosch originally said a properly designed suction system would work. The problem is there are too many variables and "properly designed" would not include mounting the filter head at the highest point in the system. Bosch no longer makes a CP3 injector pump with a primary low pressure lift pump. I guess "prperly designed" left too much leaway :roll:

My 06 showed air in the fuel symptoms less then a mile from the dealer the day I bought it in May of 06 :roll:

The dealers are like the three monkeys and we get the "can not duplicate" :!:

abhester3 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:57 am **Posts:** 39

I like the 'three monkeys' analogy, that's MY dealer too, same guys as with the Dodge VP44 problems, "Huh? Yours is the only one to ever do that".

And there will always be a batch of new owners, this one was advertised as 'runs perfect' etc. and it did until I got a few tanks of fuel away from the seller, LOL, now I know why it spent most of it's life in a garage!!

I wonder if there are the same fuel system issues in Europe where the JK, Wrangler, etc all have the CRD before and after our 05-06 sales? Did Euro market vehicles get a lift pump, is the fuel filter head different or maybe the fuel lines different, esp. these connections at the tank (my nominee for the villian)?

Thanks for all the great input so far!

mackruss · **Posted:** Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:19 am

abhester3 wrote:

I like the 'three monkeys' analogy, that's MY dealer too, same guys as with the Dodge VP44 problems, "Huh? Yours is the only one to ever do that".

And there will always be a batch of new owners, this one was advertised as 'runs perfect' etc. and it did until I got a few tanks of fuel away from the seller, LOL, now I know why it spent most of it's life in a garage!!

I wonder if there are the same fuel system issues in Europe where the JK, Wrangler, etc all have the CRD before and after our 05-06 sales? Did Euro market vehicles get a lift pump, is the fuel filter head different or maybe the fuel lines different, esp. these connections at the tank (my nominee for the villian)?

Thanks for all the great input so far!

Allow me to chime in on the Euro or export CRD's. I have the same fuel system, the same fuel head and no pump. I have just fitted the Facet pump and that's after 84000 km's, sorry i waited so long.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:25 am

I think it's a 05 and 06 thing and before and after have lift pumps

MrMopar64 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:29 am

Trying to compare the KJ fuel system to that of the newer engines is like trying to compare a carburetor to a multi-point sequential fuel injected V-8 engine. Sure you can, but what's the merit?

The fuel system on the "new" applications (Nitro/2008+ Liberty/Wrangler/new minivan) does use a lift pump, but that is only because the CP3H on the new engine doesn't have the low-side suction that the KJ application did. They also have a completely different filter head that is designed to be pressurized. Here, the injector spill pipe returns to the filter head instead of the return line to the tank, among other differences. The real difference is advancement in technology.

Also, Bosch is still selling plenty of injection pumps with the gear drive low-side suction and it works fine. The real problem is the integrity of the parts behind it that allows it to work properly or not.

P0093 Fuel System Leak, Mr. Dealer and Satisfaction

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