Timing belt replacement

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu May 21, 2009 2:38 pm

Out of the 20 or so different types of engines I've done timing belts on(they all suck,chains are way better by the way) I have never once used any of the "special tools" required for the job,never made any special tools either,oh and 99% of the time the procedure in the manual is so jacked up I don't even look anymore.Besides the normal wrenches/sockets to remove stuff the only "special" tools I use is a foamed brush bottle of WhiteOut and a pair of small ViseGrips with rubber jaw covers(a life saver,trust me they work wonders).Never had any come backs either besides the idiots that refuse to change the WP(if so driven by the belt) ,idler's,and tensioner assembly,they have came back due to tensioner/idler failure or WP failures and I get that big "told you so" reaction going.

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Thu May 21, 2009 4:33 pm

Has anyone had a water pump go out yet? I would be inclined to do a pump plus all of the tensioners in one fell swoop unless these water pumps are known to last a long time.

Mykol · **Posted:** Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:20 pm

I plan to tackle this project in a couple of weeks and I have a few questions. First, what position in it's rotation does the engine need to be in prior to locking gears (or not) and placing the mentioned reference marks? Next, do the cam gears need to be removed if the water pump is being replaced? Last, please describe the correct belt tensioning procedure. In addition, I welcome any additional advice!! Thanks

Mykol · **Posted:** Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:31 pm

Anybody, please? If replacing the water pump involves removing the cam gears, I am a little scared of this project and may be hiring a professional...

mattybombatty · **Posted:** Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:24 pm

So I'm about to tackle my TB/WP and the only complicated part I see is the fan shroud. I've seen mention of a "fan shroud mod", but can't find the thread. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Is there a link somewhere to this section of the service manual?

tonycrd · **Posted:** Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:34 pm

There is a fan mod, taking out the viscous clutch and make it a solid fan.

Don't mess with the shroud, it will affect cooling.

Loosen up the fan, then take it out with the shroud. Easy.

But...if you already find that difficult...you sure you want to do your own T-belt swap?

kccrd · **Joined:** Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:35 pm **Posts:** 267

Ask your local library if they have Mitchel's, if they do go and look up timing belt change procedure for the 05 or 06 crd jeep all you need is about 5 pages, print them off and just look at the great diagrams and all will be self explanatory from then on. You really do need the camshaft locking pins I only had one and had to improvise using a smooth side of a drill bit to lock it in the hole of one of the camshafts. If you follow the easy instructions with diagrams you can not screw it up.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:40 pm

Fan shroud mod for access. See viewtopic.php?f=5&t=53078&p=592896&hilit=fan+shroud#p592896 or direct at http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/sho ... hp?t=76201 scroll about half-way down the latter page for the pictures. I'll probably do this when I install the fixed fan kit, have the parts but waiting for better weather and all the time I'll have after retiring at the end of Feb.

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:45 pm

I have done the T-belt change myself:

- I changed the WP (not on a scheduled maint. chart replacement interval)
- Correctly timed the IP (cast mark on cover to mark on sprocket - YES THERE IS A MARK ON COVER, though kind of hidden just lower than a bolt)
- Correctly timed the camshafts (obviously - held in place)
- replaced the tensioner - inspect or replace at 100k miles
- replaced the idler pulleys - replace at 100k miles (NOT optional at 100k miles according to Jeep manual)
- properly tensioned the belt
- properly torqued down the camshaft sprockets (to 80 ft lbs! - this is why you need the cam gear holding tool, if you loosen/tighten these and do not have something to hold the sprockets to EACH OTHER you put ALOT of stress on whatever you are using to hold the camshafts in place (lock pins) and could break the pins/damage the cmashaft and get little metal parts in your engine - VERY bad)

If you do all this correctly you will have no problems in the future.

If you want to use the proper tools (I did use them, though you may possibly get by w/o them, I don't recommend it entirely, more on this later), rent them for $30 from GDE:

http://www.greendieselengineering.com/goPage.do?method=home
^^^ Go to the tool rental on the drop down menu. $30 + $100 deposit. Call GDE ahead of time to ensure they are available for when you schedule to do the T-belt change.

GDE also has a free reference for the Timing belt change they put together which I highly recommend at least looking at, EVEN if you have the Jeep Full Service Manual and it helps clear some things up and has a good photo of where the timing mark for the IP is on the cover:

http://www.greendieselengineering.com/forum/posts/list/72.page

Here's the info on loosening or not loosening the cam gears - IF you mark the injector pump AND get it in the EXACT position again, and everything - the camshaft sprockets, etc all lines up - you do not necessarily need to loosen/retorque the gears - And that is IF you are POSITIVE the original timing of everything is optimal. I opted to loosen them and move the cams back and fourth just a little bit WITH the lock pins in (yes there is a very small ammount of play even locked in) and center them in the MIDDLE of the slight movement. This is just for super accurate timing and may not matter, but I figured it can't hurt. Then, with the cam gears only slightly tight (allowing for movement still) you put the belt on the crank, etc and then the injection pump. The IP DOES have a timing mark. This is important, though if you marked it you can put it pack in that position also (it has 3 possible positions that will be timed correctly). There is a little timing mark on the cover, hard to see since it is right under a bolt and you almost need a miorror to see it. This gets lined with the timing mark on the IP sprocket. The timing marks on the Camshaft sprockets do NOT need to line up since the camshaft sprockets are NOT keyed and the gears and can move independent of them. You may choose to have them pointing at each other, etc if you want, but it doesn't matter.

If you are doing this yourself, my recommendation is to rent the tools, and at least look at GDE's guide for great pics, etc.

Honestly, I did not find this T-belt change difficult AT ALL. It was only my 2nd t-belt change ever - in my lifetime. My first was on a honda CRX which had much less room to work and the tensioner was a piece of crap in comparison to ours. The access we have once the fan, etc is out helps us alot to make this go easy.

Feel free to PM me if you have questions and I am happy to give you my phone # in a PM if you are doing it soon and want a resource available (me - yes, an actual person not just a piece of paper) just in case you have a question in the middle of the project.

- Mark

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:39 pm

kapalczynski wrote:

I have done the T-belt change myself:

- I changed the WP (not on a scheduled maint. chart replacement interval)
- Correctly timed the IP (cast mark on cover to mark on sprocket - YES THERE IS A MARK ON COVER, though kind of hidden just lower than a bolt)
- Correctly timed the camshafts (obviously - held in place)
- replaced the tensioner - inspect or replace at 100k miles
- replaced the idler pulleys - replace at 100k miles (NOT optional at 100k miles according to Jeep manual)
- properly tensioned the belt
- properly torqued down the camshaft sprockets (to 80 ft lbs! - this is why you need the cam gear holding tool, if you loosen/tighten these and do not have something to hold the sprockets to EACH OTHER you put ALOT of stress on whatever you are using to hold the camshafts in place (lock pins) and could break the pins/damage the cmashaft and get little metal parts in your engine - VERY bad)

If you do all this correctly you will have no problems in the future.

If you want to use the proper tools (I did use them, though you may possibly get by w/o them, I don't recommend it entirely, more on this later), rent them for $30 from GDE:

http://www.greendieselengineering.com/goPage.do?method=home
^^^ Go to the tool rental on the drop down menu. $30 + $100 deposit. Call GDE ahead of time to ensure they are available for when you schedule to do the T-belt change.

GDE also has a free reference for the Timing belt change they put together which I highly recommend at least looking at, EVEN if you have the Jeep Full Service Manual and it helps clear some things up and has a good photo of where the timing mark for the IP is on the cover:

http://www.greendieselengineering.com/forum/posts/list/72.page

Here's the info on loosening or not loosening the cam gears - IF you mark the injector pump AND get it in the EXACT position again, and everything - the camshaft sprockets, etc all lines up - you do not necessarily need to loosen/retorque the gears - And that is IF you are POSITIVE the original timing of everything is optimal. I opted to loosen them and move the cams back and fourth just a little bit WITH the lock pins in (yes there is a very small ammount of play even locked in) and center them in the MIDDLE of the slight movement. This is just for super accurate timing and may not matter, but I figured it can't hurt. Then, with the cam gears only slightly tight (allowing for movement still) you put the belt on the crank, etc and then the injection pump. The IP DOES have a timing mark. This is important, though if you marked it you can put it pack in that position also (it has 3 possible positions that will be timed correctly). There is a little timing mark on the cover, hard to see since it is right under a bolt and you almost need a miorror to see it. This gets lined with the timing mark on the IP sprocket.

What exactly are you timing with the IP sprocket?

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:36 pm

nursecosmo wrote:

What exactly are you timing with the IP sprocket?

The IP. It is timed with the fuel injection pulses on the CRD.

See quote from GDE below:

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

A pump with the wrong timing can lead to lower power and higher noise as posted earlier in the discussion. This is due to the internal pressure wave in the rail. If the wave pulse is not timed with an injection event correctly, the pressure at the injector nozzle might be lower than desired when the injector is energized. This may lead to a lower pilot injection quantity or a missed pilot, thus leading to more combustion noise (typical pilot duration is 180-200 micro seconds). The main injection may have a lower actual injected quantity as well due to out of phase pressure wave (main injection pulse width can range from 200-1200 micro seconds depending on load). These pulse widths are for the Liberty CRD, other common rail applications can be different, depending on injector flowrate, solenoid actuation vs. piezo actuation, number of injections (two pilots, main and post), etc.

- Mark

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:58 pm

Mark: Thanks for that little tidbit. I learned something completely new tonight by following that thread. And here I thought I knew everything about common rail injection. That's what I get for reading manuals.

tonycrd · **Posted:** Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:09 am

Hmm....now I'm confused...

GDE

The FSM way you put a little more pressure on the tensioner/selfadjuster. Maybe that's done because new belts stretch a little over time and so the selfadjuster will sag back by itself to the position in GDE's picture...

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:51 pm

I checked my FSM also. Shows same thing. The tensioner design - based on that alone would make sense to look like GDE's pic, but the FSM shows tighter. The FSM has been incorrect before though so I'm torn as to which would be correct. It is probably insignificant, that little bit, but the tighter side probably won't hurt since like you said, it may stretch a small ammount.

It also mentions:

4. Rotate engine 2 complete revolution and then
recheck tensioner alignment. Readjust tensioner
alignment as necessary.

Perhaps the first diagram is before rotation and tensioned further to account for the engine rotation lettling the belt settle. The FSM may be missing a 2nd diaagram. Notice that in the FSM it doesn't have descriptions of the 1,2,3, etc in the diagram. It is full of missing info. GDE pic may be where it is supposed to be after rotation when the belt is settled/centered on the pulleys? The FSM has been wrong/missing information before like I said. It also doesn't show the IP timing marks. I don't completely trust it. It was poorly written in my opinion.

tonycrd · **Posted:** Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:08 pm

We'll know what happened in 30.000Km (18.500 miles). Then I'll do it for the second time.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

The initial tensioner setting should be as shown in the FSM. After rotating two revolutions the slack works out of the belt and the window should be right in line with the spring arm. We check the position prior to removing the belt on any timing job and the window typically moves almost a 1/4 inch left of the spring arm center after 100,000 miles. This would be considered normal stretch.

mattybombatty · **Posted:** Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:55 pm

Appreciate all the feedback, this forum is great. I have it stripped down to the timing belt cover and am just waiting on the tools from GDE. The only "complicated" part was holding the pulley in place and breaking the fan loose without breaking knuckles. There is so much room to do this job...it's easy. I decided Im gonna replace coolant and turbo hoses while everythings out of the way. Does anyone know if the coolant hoses can be obtained through napa, or am I gonna have to go back to moparonline? Thanks.

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:02 am

mattybombatty wrote:

Appreciate all the feedback, this forum is great. I have it stripped down to the timing belt cover and am just waiting on the tools from GDE. The only "complicated" part was holding the pulley in place and breaking the fan loose without breaking knuckles. There is so much room to do this job...it's easy. I decided Im gonna replace coolant and turbo hoses while everythings out of the way. Does anyone know if the coolant hoses can be obtained through napa, or am I gonna have to go back to moparonline? Thanks.

Ditto on the easy part w/ all that room after the fan is out.

I was like...AHHHhhhhh. I can see things! lol I felt the same way, access to everything made me want to do everything in there. ha ha

Not sure on the coolant hoses. Good luck!

- Mark

liberty2.8 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:28 pm

Found this relatively old thread while researching TB replacement. There are some fairly strong opinions that this job can be done without use of the special tools if you are very careful. I know this will stir some emotions.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:06 pm

liberty2.8 wrote:

Found this relatively old thread while researching TB replacement. There are some fairly strong opinions that this job can be done without use of the special tools if you are very careful. I know this will stir some emotions.

If you are not doing the water pump its possible to do the job without any tools to lock the cam gears in place......just mark everything well and do it that way.

BUT if you are going to do the water pump, which means taking off the cam gears to pull the rear cover, you need the cam locking pins and the cam gear holder.

Timing belt replacement

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