Thermostats not currently available

Wobbly · **Posted:** Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:07 am

[quote="warp2diesel"..
Good hotel room project for a little Reverse Engineering. I would try to figure out a way to convert to replaceable and post a drawing.[/quote]

It's a laudable idea to simplify the thermostat components. OTOH, you will be trying to improve the design of an experienced maker like Behr. I'm cynical, but I doubt that they chose the design with the intention of making the innards non-replaceable, so that they could sell an expensive assembly. Could be wrong, though.

UFO · **Posted:** Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:41 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

Good hotel room project for a little Reverse Engineering. I would try to figure out a way to convert to replaceable and post a drawing.

I may do just that. I have my new unit installed, and my temperature gauge is reading normal again. And I have the old one. Time to take it apart and see if there is room to adapt a standard unit into it.

mngoat01 · **Joined:** Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:25 am **Posts:** 67

UFO wrote:

warp2diesel wrote:

Good hotel room project for a little Reverse Engineering. I would try to figure out a way to convert to replaceable and post a drawing.

I may do just that. I have my new unit installed, and my temperature gauge is reading normal again. And I have the old one. Time to take it apart and see if there is room to adapt a standard unit into it.

Much of a job to do? How long did it take you? Is it worth $130, this is what the local wrench quoted me to install mine. What is normal for your gauge reading with the new t-stat installed. (needle at 12 oclock?) Thanks

UFO · **Posted:** Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:27 pm

Not a bad job, about an hour or two start to finish. Just lots of hoses attach to that thing, but it is right there up top by the radiator. My temp gauge showed 3/8 before, now it runs 1/2 (12 o'clock) and it makes real heat again.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:09 am

Wobbly wrote:

[quote="warp2diesel"..
Good hotel room project for a little Reverse Engineering. I would try to figure out a way to convert to replaceable and post a drawing.

It's a laudable idea to simplify the thermostat components. OTOH, you will be trying to improve the design of an experienced maker like Behr. I'm cynical, but I doubt that they chose the design with the intention of making the innards non-replaceable, so that they could sell an expensive assembly. Could be wrong, though.[/quote]

Behr (like any other sane manufacturer) builds what ever the customer (VM in this case) wants using as many existing designs as possible. Why in the world would they design a new thermostat to fit in a throw away housing? I just want a housing to have a replaceable thermostat in. Getting the dimensions off an original is easy. Converting the cover from crimp on to bolt on is not rocket science.
Unlike some of the more pro-freedom parts of the country, bigger cities are total jerks about having your vehicle sit while you are waiting for a part because it is on back order. Dealing with an ordnance enforcement NAZI because I havent driven my CRD for a month is nothing I want to do :twisted:

True having the temp run a little cool is not a situation where you would park it for a month, but I have had thermostats go toes up and could not drive the car.
Besides, how many times would you want to see reruns when spending three to four nights a week in a hotel room?

Wobbly · **Posted:** Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:22 am

The thermostat housing has two castings. The top casting has a 35mm diameter compound angle elbow. This casting appears to be attached to the bottom casting by rolling the edge of the bottom casting around the top casting. The thermostat is more complicated than the ones I'm familiar with. There's a shaft coming off the top of the thermostat that fits into a "stalactite" cast into the top casting. Below the thermostat spring is a hinged sheet metal retainer which is moved by a lever attached to something else which can't be seen without dis-assembly.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:40 pm

Wobbly wrote:

The thermostat housing has two castings. The top casting has a 35mm diameter compound angle elbow. This casting appears to be attached to the bottom casting by rolling the edge of the bottom casting around the top casting. The thermostat is more complicated than the ones I'm familiar with. There's a shaft coming off the top of the thermostat that fits into a "stalactite" cast into the top casting. Below the thermostat spring is a hinged sheet metal retainer which is moved by a lever attached to something else which can't be seen without dis-assembly.

In the Engineering world verbiage is used to define specifications, from those specifications engineers and designers create what meets the specifications. But before the component is built, drawings are generated and then the component is produced. By creating a drawing, we will all be at liberty to peruse fabricating a solution.
No matter how complex the thermostat housing appears, it is nothing more than a recirculation type thermostat that has been commonly around since the 1960s on European cars and trucks. As long as the thermostat element does not become a choke point restricting flow or the flow is so open to allow pump cavitation, what ever is made should work. Since the housing is bolted to the engine and VM does not waste real estate under the hood, pump cavitation due to having an excessively open flow should not be an issue.

Wobbly · **Posted:** Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:30 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

it is nothing more than a recirculation type thermostat that has been commonly around since the 1960s on European cars and trucks.

It is a dual-acting bypass thermostat. Is this type available without a housing?

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:00 pm

Wobbly wrote:

warp2diesel wrote:

it is nothing more than a recirculation type thermostat that has been commonly around since the 1960s on European cars and trucks.

It is a dual-acting bypass thermostat. Is this type available without a housing?

There are dual-acting bypass thermostat elements, I upgraded my '63 BMW to one by slapping on one from a BMW 2002, worked better too. Inside it was nothing more than a dual-acting bypass thermostat they shoved into a three hose housing. VW had this since the '75 Rabbit engine. One our members from Washington State cut his apart and posted the pics. After he replaced the thermostat it turned out to be the fan clutch on his 05.

flman · **Posted:** Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:43 am

RTStabler51 wrote:

kccrd wrote:

My temp gauge never gets above 3/8th even when the grill is blocked off.

Mine hasn't either since I got the GDE tune.... :rockon:

LOL! GDE can lower the combustion temperature in your cylinders?? You must be getting 100 MPG?

I just cant see how a GDE tune could stop the heat of friction, compression, and burning of fuel. Unless he is magic?

CATCRD · **Posted:** Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:27 pm

flman wrote:

RTStabler51 wrote:

kccrd wrote:

My temp gauge never gets above 3/8th even when the grill is blocked off.

Mine hasn't either since I got the GDE tune.... :rockon:

LOL! GDE can lower the combustion temperature in your cylinders?? You must be getting 100 MPG?

I just cant see how a GDE tune could stop the heat of friction, compression, and burning of fuel. Unless he is magic?

It must re-calibrate the temperature gauge. Mine reads lower after GDE. About 3 ticks left of center. It used to be 1 tick left of center.

flman · **Posted:** Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:53 pm

CATCRD wrote:

flman wrote:

LOL! GDE can lower the combustion temperature in your cylinders?? You must be getting 100 MPG?

I just cant see how a GDE tune could stop the heat of friction, compression, and burning of fuel. Unless he is magic?

It must re-calibrate the temperature gauge. Mine reads lower after GDE. About 3 ticks left of center. It used to be 1 tick left of center.

Oh, that makes sense, the gauge reads wrong. I thought the OP was saying the antifreeze temp was actually colder? I wonder what GDE knows about the gauge reading lower?

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

We do not change the way the coolant temperature reads. Your engine is running cooler because there is less fuel being injected for a given load vs. stock. With the optimized injection parameters (more advanced timing, higher boost, smaller pilot injection quantity, and different rail pressure) the tune requires less fuel to provide the same torque. Less fuel = less heat

This is also the reason several customers with EGT sensors noticed that the exhaust temps decreased after they installed the tune.

Is your vehicle still putting out enough cabin heat?

GDE

stoutdog · **Posted:** Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:38 am

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

We do not change the way the coolant temperature reads. Your engine is running cooler because there is less fuel being injected for a given load vs. stock. With the optimized injection parameters (more advanced timing, higher boost, smaller pilot injection quantity, and different rail pressure) the tune requires less fuel to provide the same torque. Less fuel = less heat

This is also the reason several customers with EGT sensors noticed that the exhaust temps decreased after they installed the tune.

Is your vehicle still putting out enough cabin heat?

GDE

My father's CRD reads about one tick lower than mine (3/8 of the gauge vs. 7/16). Could this be because of the tune (which we both have) or is it potentially his thermostat? He has no clue when it started reading that way....

I ask because I drove his Jeep on a 65mph, flat land trip a couple of weeks ago... Let's just say, I get better mileage in my CRD driving 70, through mountains/snow, in 4x4 :dizzy:

His Jeep also felt sluggish. Almost like mine does while it is still warming up.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

Stoutdog,

Your KJ is a 2006 and his is a 2005, correct? The coolant gauge calibration is different inside the cluster between the two model years. We are showing the same offset in coolant temp readings between our 2005 and 2006. The gauge on our 2006 reads slightly higher than the 2005 even though the actual coolant temp is the same as measured directly from the sensor.

We noticed significant differences in fuel economy on our two KJs in the past and it stemmed from the front brakes. The support pins that hold the calipers in place tend to get build-up inside the little rubber protectors and this prevented the calipers from finding a neutral position. After we took the calipers off, cleaned the support pin and then re-lubricated with (CRC synthetic Brake & Caliper Grease) the fuel economy came back up. This may be the issue with your father's KJ.

CATCRD · **Posted:** Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:43 am

What is the normal running temp in ºF? My scangaugeII shows mine holds at 160ºF while driving in cool weather, with the grille blocked. That's 1 tick left of center, on a 2005, no cluster updates, Inmotion tune.

I haven't checked actual temp of my wife's GDE tuned ride.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

CATCRD,

The thermostat starts to open at 176 F, but in cold weather it runs slightly cooler around 160 F to 170 F, so yours is in the ballpark. Is your wife's KJ getting better fuel economy than yours?

stoutdog · **Posted:** Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:48 am

GreenDieselEngineering wrote:

Stoutdog,

Your KJ is a 2006 and his is a 2005, correct? The coolant gauge calibration is different inside the cluster between the two model years. We are showing the same offset in coolant temp readings between our 2005 and 2006. The gauge on our 2006 reads slightly higher than the 2005 even though the actual coolant temp is the same as measured directly from the sensor.

We noticed significant differences in fuel economy on our two KJs in the past and it stemmed from the front brakes. The support pins that hold the calipers in place tend to get build-up inside the little rubber protectors and this prevented the calipers from finding a neutral position. After we took the calipers off, cleaned the support pin and then re-lubricated with (CRC synthetic Brake & Caliper Grease) the fuel economy came back up. This may be the issue with your father's KJ.

Yes, his is a 2005, with the TSB calibration to make the coolant gauge read for the CRD engine. Interesting thought, I'll forward it on to him. Thanks!

flman · **Posted:** Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:02 pm

Driving today temp in the 30s, cruising at 60 mph my Eco tuned Jeep is 1 tick left from center. Seems to be pretty normal to me?

stoutdog · **Posted:** Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:50 pm

flman wrote:

Driving today temp in the 30s, cruising at 60 mph my Eco tuned Jeep is 1 tick left from center. Seems to be pretty normal to me?

Yes, that is normal.

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