Would you want a rear bumper WITHOUT a heavy tire carrier?

Xodius · **Posted:** Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:11 am

lol boiler you and I are both working on the same idea right now. Yours will be more mass produced though and mine is a single run. ETA on mine will be roughly Christmas 2011. It will be well before that but I always push those dates ahead just in case the SHTF.

FreedomKJ · **Posted:** Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:32 am

Here's an idea I've thought about many times but never really brought up…

Having a swing away tire carrier that you have to unlatch and open before opening the door seems to be a pain. How about building the tire carrier so the weight is carried by the bumper, like all other swing away tire carriers, but instead of a latch to hold it in place you attach an arm to the mounting location of the original tire mount on the rear door. Then when you open the door the tire carrier opens with it.

I've never seen one like that, but it seems to me it would be just a bit of simple geometry to get it working.

infernicus · **Posted:** Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:58 am

FreedomKJ wrote:

... Having a swing away tire carrier that you have to unlatch and open before opening the door seems to be a pain...

Soooo trueee!

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:01 pm

CRD Joe wrote:

With respect, that RL Kamoto rear bumper is the doo doo. Make one like that and youll be doing fine.

Wow, we can type doo doo now? Next thing you know we'll be able to type Jesus or something.

CRD Joe · **Posted:** Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:28 pm

JL Rockies wrote:

CRD Joe wrote:

With respect, that RL Kamoto rear bumper is the doo doo. Make one like that and youll be doing fine.

Wow, we can type doo doo now? Next thing you know we'll be able to type Jesus or something.

Wise guy.

dgeist · **Posted:** Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:06 pm

JL Rockies wrote:

CRD Joe wrote:

With respect, that RL Kamoto rear bumper is the ****. Make one like that and youll be doing fine.

Wow, we can type doo doo now? Next thing you know we'll be able to type Jesus or something.

Out of curiousity, did you type "doo doo"? That's supposed to auto-replace from the other word, but it looks like the original didn't work and the response did...

nosnorb_808 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:39 pm

I personally would only buy a rear bumper w/ tire carrier if I had a SFA. Theres no real purpose unless you are going to be carrying a larger tire. The stock carrier works fine for most.

Boiler · **Posted:** Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:57 pm

Even regular lifts can carry considerably heavier tires, and rims, and larger offset. All of those things add to the stress put on the tailgate. I've heard multiple stories of people hearing a squeak and then find it is their tailgate tearing at the bolts under the stress.

Another benefit would be improved ground clearance / rear ramp angle. With my bumper, a stock mounted tire will easily be the first thing to contact the ground if you try to take a steep uphill or climb down off of a shelf. Hitting it equals denting the tailgate.

Finally, the arm is a good place to store extra gas and or your hi-lift.

I'm not arguing for it, no need for a debate, I'm just pointing out what it can give you.

nosnorb_808 · **Posted:** Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:59 am

point taken.

LibertyFever · **Posted:** Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:15 pm

I would imagine you could fabricate or modify an aftermarket rear bumper for less money. There's a lot of designs out there for other Jeeps. Here's one; http://www.4x4trax.net/TireCarrier.htm

Also I agree the stock tire carrier won't support a full size spare.

2006 KJ · **Posted:** Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:30 pm

a few things.
1. back up lights would be very nice... but mount them behind the bumper somewhere (ARB has the fog light and turn lights indented and mounted behind the bumper... no rocks/trees can get to them)
2. D ring mounts (2.. one on both sides preferably)
3. Hitch mount.. (would save bolting/unbolting stock hitch all the time)
4. Best possible departure angle (that's the point right?)
5. Tire carrier... because when offroading i put mine inside the jeep.. which means i have to put down all my seats and tie it down with 2 straps so it doesn't kill be if i wreck/roll. i put it inside because i've hit it coming off of ledges/ going up steep hills. a tire carrier that mounts it pretty high would be very nice to have... as long as it wasn't butt ugly and follows the shape of the jeep a little bit (kinda like INC's.. not as straight up as rock lizards). it would not be THAT much more added weight... and it's not very hard to unlatch something before opening the gate.. that will have to be the sacrifice for having a great bumper/carrier. Check out some high end TJ/JK bumpers to find good non-squeaking latches/designs. My dad has a WARN rear bumper/tire carrier on his TJ rubicon and it is silent as a mouse. Would also be nice to get my 16in. steel wheel and 32in mud tire off the gate (compared to a 16in. alum. wheel and 27in street tire. that came on it)
6. License plate light.. and good mounting place (not in spare tire.. rocklizards' was pretty nice in the middle)
7. Price around $1000. comparable to an ARB front bumper. would get you a lot of business i believe.

dgeist · **Posted:** Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:44 pm

I know this isn't a "Ignoring Boiler's original question and answering a different one" thread, but I'm guessing more than a few folks would love to have the option of either configuration (ala RL's optional swing-out arms). Your design may not account for both ways, but that might give you more potential customers for basically the same design.

Dan

Boiler · **Posted:** Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:43 pm

dgeist wrote:

I know this isn't a "Ignoring Boiler's original question and answering a different one" thread, but I'm guessing more than a few folks would love to have the option of either configuration (ala RL's optional swing-out arms). Your design may not account for both ways, but that might give you more potential customers for basically the same design.

I'm planning one long swing out arm that carries a tire and has options for the jerry can and hi lift. Using a swing out cleans a lot of things up in the design, such as tire clearance with the bumper and where to mount a license plate, etc. I think in order to not muddle up that design, there will be two seperate bumpers, utilizing many of the same parts but not all.

2006 KJ wrote:

a few things.
1. back up lights would be very nice... but mount them behind the bumper somewhere (ARB has the fog light and turn lights indented and mounted behind the bumper... no rocks/trees can get to them)This is the plan currently, as an option.
2. D ring mounts (2.. one on both sides preferably)standard equip.
3. Hitch mount.. (would save bolting/unbolting stock hitch all the time)Standard equip
4. Best possible departure angle (that's the point right?)Yep
5. Tire carrier... because when offroading i put mine inside the jeep.. which means i have to put down all my seats and tie it down with 2 straps so it doesn't kill be if i wreck/roll. i put it inside because i've hit it coming off of ledges/ going up steep hills. a tire carrier that mounts it pretty high would be very nice to have... as long as it wasn't butt ugly and follows the shape of the jeep a little bit (kinda like INC's.. not as straight up as rock lizards). it would not be THAT much more added weight... and it's not very hard to unlatch something before opening the gate.. that will have to be the sacrifice for having a great bumper/carrier. Check out some high end TJ/JK bumpers to find good non-squeaking latches/designs. My dad has a WARN rear bumper/tire carrier on his TJ rubicon and it is silent as a mouse. Would also be nice to get my 16in. steel wheel and 32in mud tire off the gate (compared to a 16in. alum. wheel and 27in street tire. that came on it)Optional. I plan on basically having the tire running on the average slope at the point which it is mounted, so it will be inclined slightly.
6. License plate light.. and good mounting place (not in spare tire.. rocklizards' was pretty nice in the middle)I thought the spare tire mount for the license plate was horrible until I started looking into the alternatives. With a swing out carrier, there will be room on the bumper, but without a swing-out carrier that space will be blocked by tire. Those who choose to use the stock carrier will have to relocate the plate as necessary.
7. Price around $1000. comparable to an ARB front bumper. would get you a lot of business i believe.

$1000 is a very aggressive price. For a fully loaded bumper, complete with options, this is pretty much out of the question. Base bumpers will be under that price I think. I really can't say until I make a couple. I'll be making two back to back at the start, and should have my pricing nailed down by the time I'm done with them. When I price my products, I consider all materials, purchased items, subcontract costs (machining, etc), and our labor. We've got a dollar amount on our labor that is very competitive for skilled labor, and currently that is what we charge. We don't have profit on top of that. The labor rate is fair but pays us well for the work. We add up all that stuff and that's the price. I basically stay up to all hours designing this stuff for free. That won't last forever but for now that's how it works. So people are benefitting from the fact that I wan't some awesome gear for my own Jeep.

I know places sell awesome looking bumpers of similar designs for wranglers for not so much money, but I have to bet they are high production outfits where the owners aren't doing all the work. If I had so much business that I could higher $15 / hour welders and make money on their labor, I probably be able to charge a bit less. Having to farm out CNC type work instead of doing it on one's own machine makes things expensive too. But it is what it is. I can't buy a laser just to have it run for 15 minutes a month.

I let the product decide the price, obviously trying to design for economical construction. Take for instance my rack. Extruded tube is pretty cheap, but it is labor intensive. A large portion of the cost of the rack is our labor. So we make good money on them but we earn every penny of it. Next consider our gas tank skid. It is very expensive on the front end, in materials and CNC cutting & forming. We spend much less labor on it as it is very quick to fixture and weld up. So the way I do my pricing, we don't make that much on them, but the price is quite high in comparison to others on the market. Basically the prices determine themselves once the design is complete and we get paid in proportion to our efforts. The key is to design a product that is three equal parts: Good looking, highly functional, and cost-effective to make. Generally speaking, balancing these 3 items is the key to a building a successful product.

Sport · **Posted:** Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:32 am

For me something minimalist and light weight would be best. I don't have a need to carry a tire on it but would like to still use my factory hitch

1. light weight (aluminum?)
2. clearance
3. ability to stand on it with out it collapsing underneath me, OEM
4. use of stock hitch.

Boiler · **Posted:** Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:59 am

Designing a rear bumper is harder than it looks. I've had several people tell me to start with it because it is simple compared to the front...yeah right!

Right now I'm going back and forth, one feature messing up another, adjusting and tweaking endlessly trying to make room for lights (and to get them in and out with the bumper on, towing, swing out pivot, recovery points, clearance, etc etc. I spent 8 hours on it tonight and basically am just in a bigger mess. :roll:

Some sleep and a day with the kids and I'll pick up where I left off tomorrow. And to think I was planning on mocking it up out of cardboard sunday...

jeepmedic46 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:31 am

Can't wait to see the design of the prototype. :JEEPIN:

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:41 pm

nosnorb_808 wrote:

I personally would only buy a rear bumper w/ tire carrier if I had a SFA. Theres no real purpose unless you are going to be carrying a larger tire. The stock carrier works fine for most.

True, but the extra weight on the tailgate will eventually cause premature wear on the hinges. Some have reported sagging tailgates.

STINGN · **Posted:** Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:53 pm

Plus people would also want the look of the tire carrier.

tommudd · **Posted:** Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:28 pm

I have to agree that the added weight is not good
BUT
I have had several swing old carriers on old EBs and FS Broncos and they have all been one HUGE pain in the behind to continually open and close to put things in the back. Hate them but what are you going to do?
I still think a supporting arm for the current gate OR an adjustable mount underneath that would ride under the tire and hold it solid, when you close the gate the tire would be resting on the "foot" and therefore no movement.
But then who listens to me :banghead:

STINGN · **Posted:** Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:41 pm

tommudd wrote:

But then who listens to me :banghead:

NOBODY

Would you want a rear bumper WITHOUT a heavy tire carrier?

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