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 Post subject: Engineers: Heard of this?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:55 am 
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Is this legit?

http://www.prvperformance.com/

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 Post subject: Re: Engineers: Heard of this?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:29 pm 
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linewarbr wrote:


Likely not.

At least with just a quick glance at the web page. This idea of 'premixing fuel and air' as the holy grail of high mileage is nothing new. They were talking about this kind of stuff back in the days when everyone had carbeurators.

Also, 53 mpg. 53 mpg based on... what? There are some standard internal combustion engines out there already getting in excess of 40mpg. So when they say 53mpg, what's that an improvement over? Point being, are they claiming that they can improve what would normally be a 15mpg engine and turn it into a 53mpg engine? I'm highly skeptical. It's possible they could turn a 48 mpg engine and turn it into a 53 mpg engine. That would be more realistic.

Plus, in the PDF, I'm a little concerned with the phrase, "reduces greenhouse emissions" as if that were an entirely discreet effect with this technology.

When you burn x gallons of gasoline you get x lbs of carbon dioxide emissions. There is no technology invented that will allow you to burn x gallons of gasoline with less carbon dioxide emissions. The way to reduce your CO2 emissions is to burn less gas. As a point of fact, this was one of the legal complaints against some of the new state specific emissions standards where they tried to regulate the car companies into putting out 'less co2'. The argument from the car companies was that there is no trap or technology to have a standard car produce less co2. The only way to achieve this is to burn less fuel. And as such, fuel economy is regulated by the EPA, full stop.

So when I hear "engineering types" make this claim, I get nervous.

EDIT: I've read more of the PDF, and they are basing this test technology on a Honda Civic engine. It just so happens that the Honda civic engines are some of the highest mileage standard infernal combustion engines around, so now their mpg improvements look a little more realistic to me. They essentially took a 43 mpg engine and claimed to have turned it into a 53 mpg engine. This is a much more realistic improvement. Still impressive, but much more realistic. They also only saw a 4mpg improvement with city driving. So I'll admit this is looking much more intriguing than it did when I first glanced at the website.

Bottom line: if someone comes to you claiming they improved their gas mileage by 100% by making novel adjustements to their engine, you may laugh at them. If they claim increasing it by 2 or 3 mpg, then you might listen to their story.

EDIT2: And I take back everything I accused them of with their claims of reduced CO2. From the paper:

CO2 reduction is accomplished by improving fuel economy.

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 Post subject: Re: Engineers: Heard of this?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:05 pm 
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I don't feel that its snake oil.

I actually had a very similar idea to this starting a few years back, their execution of it is a little different than what I had in mind, but was also more practical. One of the interesting things I find in engineering is that often engineers of different groups come up with the same ideas, and either similar or identical execution.

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 Post subject: Re: Engineers: Heard of this?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:05 am 
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Thank you for the replies. One of my first questions for him was, "What about the brake booster?" Apparently there is more cost involved, because you need to modify the engine bay to accept either a small electric vacuum pump, or modify the belt to accept a pulley-powered vacuum pump.

According to a few others more knowledgeable than me (Sir Sam) this wouldn't do much for a CRD because of the inherit pumping efficiency of a turbodiesel engine. But would this make a 15 mpg gasser KJ go to 23 or 25 mpg? Hmmmm. . . .

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In this war of lines, so many have been crossed. Where will it all stop?

2006 Deep Beryl Green CRD Sport *SOLD 1/22/12*
Provent, V6 Airbox, Fumoto, Samcos, GDE ECO & TCM Tune, Euro JK TC, Magnaflow Catback
245/70/16 Destination A/T's
Boiler's Radiator Skid Plate
Jeepin' By Al 2.5 inch Adjust-A-Strut Lift, JBA Gen 4.5 UCA's (6/5/10)

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 Post subject: Re: Engineers: Heard of this?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:52 am 
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I see Pintle-regulated Venturi Fuel Induction Systems as a Bean Counter Engineering mode to avert advancing to Direct Injection on Gasoline engines. All Pintle-regulated Venturi Fuel Induction Systems does is mix the fuel droplets a little better.

Reminds me of the "Feed Back Carburetor" and I suspect Pintle-regulated Venturi Fuel Induction Systems will be as much of a cobble job boondoggle.

Here is some more more promising advancement in engine technology: http://www.scuderiengine.com/

I do not want to do any more than point out that the Scuderi Engine has no delusions of not using Direct Injection for either their Gasoline or Diesel versions, anything else is out of the question.

Does any one know of any one who wants to install a Feed Back Carburetor on their muscle car :?:
Didn't think so :!:

For comments on the Scuderi Engine please go here:
viewtopic.php?f=94&t=52145

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 Post subject: Re: Engineers: Heard of this?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:51 pm 
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linewarbr wrote:
Thank you for the replies. One of my first questions for him was, "What about the brake booster?" Apparently there is more cost involved, because you need to modify the engine bay to accept either a small electric vacuum pump, or modify the belt to accept a pulley-powered vacuum pump.

According to a few others more knowledgeable than me (Sir Sam) this wouldn't do much for a CRD because of the inherit pumping efficiency of a turbodiesel engine. But would this make a 15 mpg gasser KJ go to 23 or 25 mpg? Hmmmm. . . .


Keep in mind though, all diesels have a secondary vacuum pump, ours is driven off the timing belt, I believe some older mercedes used an electric vacuum pump.

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