Fixed Flex Fan - Complete DIY Part Number List

fastRob · **Posted:** Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:50 pm

Mark,
I added the transmission cooler in case there was contamination from the transmission. There was no failure, just some shudder. The mods were done in anticipation of a ECU flash/Turbo update and we tow heavy stuff, near capacity. The thermal bypass was added to keep the tranny fluid warm. The cooler is the only transmission cooler. I by-passed the radiator.
I had a transmission shuttle go in a backhoe and the mechanic suggested replacing the cooler because that was the way they did it. No chance of re contamination from the old failed units. Maybe I went overboard but that tranny, parts and time are expensive. The new cooler was $100 and it reduced the radiator's cooling load.
R

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:25 am

fastRob wrote:

Mark,
I added the transmission cooler in case there was contamination from the transmission. There was no failure, just some shudder. The mods were done in anticipation of a ECU flash/Turbo update and we tow heavy stuff, near capacity. The thermal bypass was added to keep the tranny fluid warm. The cooler is the only transmission cooler. I by-passed the radiator.
I had a transmission shuttle go in a backhoe and the mechanic suggested replacing the cooler because that was the way they did it. No chance of re contamination from the old failed units. Maybe I went overboard but that tranny, parts and time are expensive. The new cooler was $100 and it reduced the radiator's cooling load.
R

Thats cool, the radiator acts as a cooler to the transmission as well as preventing overcooling as the trans fluid runs in a core next to the engine coolant, sounds like the bypass achieves the same goal. I just added air flow to the factory setup with the flex fan giving it more effective cooling for the radiator, transmission and the intercooler.

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:45 am

kapalczynski wrote:

Goglio704 wrote:

Just make sure it is kept vertical. If laid flat, the fluid can migrate to places it wouldn't normally be.

Just curious, where did you get this information? If your fan clutch is spinning, centripetal force moves the fluid out anyway, right? Aren't these shipped in boxes, tossed in freight trucks at weird angles all the time. Never heard about not putting it flat. Worked at a parts store for about 4 years several...several years ago, they just came shoved in boxes in totes to us.

Maybe that is why I had to turn it a few times to get it to free spin after i pulled it out of the oven. I held it vertical while doing this. I used 220* because the lockup specs are 195*-205* F for lockup and unlock at 145-185* F.

Mine was definitely bad.

Just a quick question..

When I took my fan off, I laid it down with the blades facing up. It sat that way for a week. Then when I went to move it, I noticed that on the center of the hub it says "Store With Blades Facing Down" or something like that. So....this fan IS supposed to be stored horizontal, but with the blades down.

Have I ruined my clutch fan? When I try to turn the shaft, it will turn by hand....but there is friction. Obviously this is when at room temperature. Is it toast now because of my mistake? Or is it normal for it to have friction when cold?

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:44 pm

LibertyCRD wrote:

kapalczynski wrote:

Goglio704 wrote:

Just make sure it is kept vertical. If laid flat, the fluid can migrate to places it wouldn't normally be.

Just curious, where did you get this information? If your fan clutch is spinning, centripetal force moves the fluid out anyway, right? Aren't these shipped in boxes, tossed in freight trucks at weird angles all the time. Never heard about not putting it flat. Worked at a parts store for about 4 years several...several years ago, they just came shoved in boxes in totes to us.

Maybe that is why I had to turn it a few times to get it to free spin after i pulled it out of the oven. I held it vertical while doing this. I used 220* because the lockup specs are 195*-205* F for lockup and unlock at 145-185* F.

Mine was definitely bad.

Just a quick question..

When I took my fan off, I laid it down with the blades facing up. It sat that way for a week. Then when I went to move it, I noticed that on the center of the hub it says "Store With Blades Facing Down" or something like that. So....this fan IS supposed to be stored horizontal, but with the blades down.

Have I ruined my clutch fan? When I try to turn the shaft, it will turn by hand....but there is friction. Obviously this is when at room temperature. Is it toast now because of my mistake? Or is it normal for it to have friction when cold?

You're probably fine. All the same, I would put it on, drive it around for a day or two to ensure the silicon is where it should be, then perform the easy fan clutch test I listed earlier in the thread.

- Mark

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:47 pm

Halfway through this tank, EVIC is looking like economy is unchanged compared to the factory design fan clutch/fan.

Results coming soon...

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:14 pm

kapalczynski wrote:

Halfway through this tank, EVIC is looking like economy is unchanged compared to the factory design fan clutch/fan.

Results coming soon...

Well that is disappointing. I was hoping the economy would be better with a lighter fan on the front.

kdlewis1975 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:12 pm

From what I've read, I have the impression that the A/C condenser doubles as the transmission fluid cooler on our rides. I think GDE added a feature to their tune for this reason. If the trans fluid gets to a certain temp, the electric turns to assist. I think the radiator may only do engine coolant...possibly due to the heat load of the EGR and oil cooler...?

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:29 pm

geordi wrote:

kapalczynski wrote:

Halfway through this tank, EVIC is looking like economy is unchanged compared to the factory design fan clutch/fan.

Results coming soon...

Well that is disappointing. I was hoping the economy would be better with a lighter fan on the front.

Lighter true, but also always directly connected and pulling a lot more air causing resistance...seems to balance out on the economy. However, theres the benefits...much MUCH better cooling and will never go out again like the clutch. A winner in my book.

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:40 pm

kdlewis1975 wrote:

From what I've read, I have the impression that the A/C condenser doubles as the transmission fluid cooler on our rides. I think GDE added a feature to their tune for this reason. If the trans fluid gets to a certain temp, the electric turns to assist. I think the radiator may only do engine coolant...possibly due to the heat load of the EGR and oil cooler...?

Close, but I think you have it mixed around a bit. The radiator also has a separate transmission cooler core. The auxiliary fan is in front of all coolers (radiator/trans cooler, A/C condenser, and intercooler). GDE added the feature that when the trans temp gets a bit high it kicks on the extra fan, thereby cooling the trans a bit more. As far as I know, I have not seen any lines from the crankcase going to any cooler of any kind. I was actually thinking of putting on a separate cooler for the oil, but it is probably not necessary.

The fixed flex fan design i came up with (FFF mod I am calling it) is constantly pushing more air through the radiator/transmission cooler, A/C condenser, and the intercooler. This reduces engine/transmission/intake air temps, and especially under load, the engine remains around optimum temperature and doesn't climb up as high as it used to.

People have reported with the factory setup up to 40* higher than optimum (240*) while under load. I haven't seen my temp climb more than +8* F under load since the flex fan was installed. I stay right around 190.5* with a 192* thermostat during a straight cruise and go up to 199* F under load or a nearly wide open throttle run (TC locked heavy throttle).

I need to get some data logging software so I can show you all some of the runs I have done with it. Pretty impressive cooling now compared to factory.

kdlewis1975 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:15 pm

kapalczynski wrote:

kdlewis1975 wrote:

From what I've read, I have the impression that the A/C condenser doubles as the transmission fluid cooler on our rides. I think GDE added a feature to their tune for this reason. If the trans fluid gets to a certain temp, the electric turns to assist. I think the radiator may only do engine coolant...possibly due to the heat load of the EGR and oil cooler...?

Close, but I think you have it mixed around a bit. The radiator also has a separate transmission cooler core. The auxiliary fan is in front of all coolers (radiator/trans cooler, A/C condenser, and intercooler). GDE added the feature that when the trans temp gets a bit high it kicks on the extra fan, thereby cooling the trans a bit more. As far as I know, I have not seen any lines from the crankcase going to any cooler of any kind. I was actually thinking of putting on a separate cooler for the oil, but it is probably not necessary.

The fixed flex fan design i came up with (FFF mod I am calling it) is constantly pushing more air through the radiator/transmission cooler, A/C condenser, and the intercooler. This reduces engine/transmission/intake air temps, and especially under load, the engine remains around optimum temperature and doesn't climb up as high as it used to.

People have reported with the factory setup up to 40* higher than optimum (240*) while under load. I haven't seen my temp climb more than +8* F under load since the flex fan was installed. I stay right around 190.5* with a 192* thermostat during a straight cruise and go up to 199* F under load or a nearly wide open throttle run (TC locked heavy throttle).

I need to get some data logging software so I can show you all some of the runs I have done with it. Pretty impressive cooling now compared to factory.

...you should probably inform these guys too: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Jeep_Liberty/Print_version
I haven't taken anything apart in terms of the A/C condensor and I haven't traced the transmission lines to see where they go. These guys could be wrong, but then there being different A/C condensors for the gas/diesel models is a bit of a conundrum...unless one is much thinner than the other in order to make room for the intercooler.

The engine has a coolant to oil heat exchanger mounted on the passenger side of the block. It's not particularly easy to see unless you looking from under the vehicle.

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:55 pm

kdlewis1975 wrote:

kapalczynski wrote:

kdlewis1975 wrote:

From what I've read, I have the impression that the A/C condenser doubles as the transmission fluid cooler on our rides. I think GDE added a feature to their tune for this reason. If the trans fluid gets to a certain temp, the electric turns to assist. I think the radiator may only do engine coolant...possibly due to the heat load of the EGR and oil cooler...?

Close, but I think you have it mixed around a bit. The radiator also has a separate transmission cooler core. The auxiliary fan is in front of all coolers (radiator/trans cooler, A/C condenser, and intercooler). GDE added the feature that when the trans temp gets a bit high it kicks on the extra fan, thereby cooling the trans a bit more. As far as I know, I have not seen any lines from the crankcase going to any cooler of any kind. I was actually thinking of putting on a separate cooler for the oil, but it is probably not necessary.

The fixed flex fan design i came up with (FFF mod I am calling it) is constantly pushing more air through the radiator/transmission cooler, A/C condenser, and the intercooler. This reduces engine/transmission/intake air temps, and especially under load, the engine remains around optimum temperature and doesn't climb up as high as it used to.

People have reported with the factory setup up to 40* higher than optimum (240*) while under load. I haven't seen my temp climb more than +8* F under load since the flex fan was installed. I stay right around 190.5* with a 192* thermostat during a straight cruise and go up to 199* F under load or a nearly wide open throttle run (TC locked heavy throttle).

I need to get some data logging software so I can show you all some of the runs I have done with it. Pretty impressive cooling now compared to factory.

...you should probably inform these guys too: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Jeep_Liberty/Print_version
I haven't taken anything apart in terms of the A/C condensor and I haven't traced the transmission lines to see where they go. These guys could be wrong, but then there being different A/C condensors for the gas/diesel models is a bit of a conundrum...unless one is much thinner than the other in order to make room for the intercooler.

The engine has a coolant to oil heat exchanger mounted on the passenger side of the block. It's not particularly easy to see unless you looking from under the vehicle.

Hey thx for the correction, I was wrong...I think I was thinking of my GMC. I just went out and looked at the Jeep. I see 4 lines going to the AC condenser (2 of which I can only assume go to the transmission though I haven't traced them either), and just the 2 hoses going to the radiator on the CRD.

Regardless, whether you turn on the aux fan or run the FFF mod, either will cool the antifreeze in the radiator and everything mounted in front of the radiator (A/C condenser/Trans cooler, intercooler) better.

kdlewis1975 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:05 am

kapalczynski wrote:

Regardless, whether you turn on the aux fan or run the FFF mod, either will cool the antifreeze in the radiator and everything mounted in front of the radiator (A/C condenser/Trans cooler, intercooler) better.

True enough. When I first saw that, the A/C condensor trans cooler combo struck me as odd...all I could figure was that it was allow the radiator to have more capacity for cooling exhaust and at least have a chance when the engine is under full load.

Based on the descriptions here, I can say I've ever heard my clutch fan turn on. I don't tow much and it is generally a little cooler in MI than it is down south. The flat terrain doesn't pose much of challenge to the little engine.

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:22 am

I'll second that, but from the overheated SouthEast. The ONLY vehicle that I have ever heard a clutch fan engage on is my 30' RV with a Chevy 454 engine. I've replaced the front of that engine, converting it from a 6-different-V-belt design to a single serpentine and 1 V belt. At the same time, I opened up the cooling system by installing 2 giant puller electric fans and actually connecting the 2 pusher electrics that were there already. New radiator, clutch fan, and I can't remember if the thermostat is still in there or not. On hard working engines like that, I did pull them off sometimes. That engine used to overheat just while idling, the temp gauge climbing steadily. Now, it RUNS at right around 170-180, and idles at 150. Asking it to pull an additional 7000 lbs of my trailer, it ran at 195-210. Can't argue with that!!!!

BUT... Even before I got into the modifications, I only heard the clutch fan engage when the engine was WAY above what I would have liked it's temperature to be - Getting into the 230 range.

Squeeto · **Posted:** Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:01 pm

kapalczynski wrote:

Regardless, whether you turn on the aux fan or run the FFF mod, either will cool the antifreeze in the radiator and everything mounted in front of the radiator (A/C condenser/Trans cooler, intercooler) better.

With the FFF mod, if your AC electric fan stops working, are you going to replace it or remove it?

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:19 pm

With the constant cooling of the FFF setup, it is probably not needed. I probably wouldn't even notice it not working, but if i see a problem, i would fix it. It can't hurt to keep a good aux fan, though I doubt the engine will need it. I have a GDE tune and with the trans temp engagement of the aux fan it would be good to have, but again I doubt with the FFF the fan will ever kick on due to trans temps. I really need to get some data logging software so I can show you the temps on everything with the stock vs FFF setups, anyone have any recommendations there?

I was hoping to find a laptop setup that will data log as well as work for airbag resetting. Not sure where to look for a cheapish setup for that if it exists. It seems like I always have a friend that forgets to pull the fuse to the airbag system prior to disconnection one for maintenance and sets off the light.

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Sat May 15, 2010 7:08 pm

Part numbers and prices to complete the kit:

**EDIT** You will also need 4 bolts and 4 lock washers. I will get the sizes for you and update tomorrow.

Flex Fan - Imperial Part number 223619 - 19" reverse direction High flow flex fan(Advanced auto - free shipping from local store - $28.99):

Adapter - Flex-a-lite part number 851 - 30 mm x 1.5 pitch flex fan adapter (Amazon.com - $43.07 - free shipping):

Washers (used as spacer to allow clearance between engine accessories) - McMaster-Carr part number 93849A112 - (2 needed) (mcmastercarr.com - $4.58 each-2 needed plus shipping cost):

Total cost about $100. Cheaper than a fan clutch alone.

racertracer · **Posted:** Sat May 15, 2010 7:37 pm

Mark,

This is just superb.

Open source is a good thing.

Many thanks to you.

Racer

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Sat May 15, 2010 9:58 pm

racertracer wrote:

Mark,

This is just superb.

Open source is a good thing.

Many thanks to you.

Racer

Of course man, I love sharing ideas and helping ppl out. I'm not trying to get rich off anyone. I just like to have the bugs mostly worked out. Before I share a "good" idea it has to actually be beneficial and proven or I won't share it. I don't want a bunch of people doing something that may end up being the wrong thing to do and a waste of money, etc.

Only reason I charge for the t-stat setup is to cover my costs, and cuz most ppl can't just do their own machining like I can...I'm not making much if anything off it(haven't actually figured that out yet, i might be loosing some when this is all done...lol)...just helpin ppl.

I'd b happy to share part #'s, etc, but I buy most things in bulk for it. You get it cheaper through me than you can make it yourself. I buy gasket material in bulk, 3 meter threaded SS rod cut down to exact size, SS hardware by the package, I but 4 water outlets at a time that saves $24.00 per set, etc.

This fan setup is THE ANSWER to all cooling problem except of course a failed part elsewhere in the system. I think I can virtually guarantee no one will ever overheat again no matter what they tow at what incline at whatever RPM's. The FFF is substantially better cooling. A bit noisier, but easy to get used and not too loud at low rpms. Has a nice powerful whine at higher rpms.

I just got the datalogging software in the mail yesterday so hopefully it works ok w/our jeep so I can get some graphs of WOT runs, towing bricks up hills, etc.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat May 15, 2010 10:54 pm

If that software doesn't work out, LMK. I have the enhanced AutoEnginuity that CAN log whatever you want (it is very much a look-but-no-touching type of program for a lot of things) and I'm sure we can work something mutually beneficial out for a rental for however long you need it. I'm all about helping out the group too.

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Sun May 16, 2010 3:14 am

geordi wrote:

If that software doesn't work out, LMK. I have the enhanced AutoEnginuity that CAN log whatever you want (it is very much a look-but-no-touching type of program for a lot of things) and I'm sure we can work something mutually beneficial out for a rental for however long you need it. I'm all about helping out the group too.

I'll let you know if this software works out or not.

Thanks for the offer to help.

Fixed Flex Fan - Complete DIY Part Number List

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