192º Thermostat - Parts Diagram/dimensions added page 1

stoutdog · **Posted:** Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:13 pm

kapalczynski wrote:

stoutdog wrote:

kapalczynski wrote:

Anyway...I gotta get back to machining.

I got the necks cut off and t-stats removed on 4 cores, 2 of the 4 cores faced, 2 more to go, then drill/tap and install the studs on all 4. Then I need to cut 4 more intermediate plates....lots to do today. Gotta get ur jeep up and running for you squeeto - ASAP.

Presuming you don't blow anything up with this first round of Kapalczynski tstats, you can count my father and I end for the next batch :jester:

I have you on the list for # 3 so you should be in this first batch - if you are ready for it. I'll PM everyone on the list in order they contacted me and as I get the payments I'll send them out.

If you want to wait, there are 8 ppl total on the waiting list so I can come back to you.

Ahh, okay. I just talked to my dad, we're still good to go presuming the new design works.

WolverineFW · **Posted:** Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:45 pm

kapalczynski wrote:

Interesting. According to Mid Atlantic Rubber Co. who is a supplier for my mechanical engineering friend's company, neoprene is "excellent" for glycol compatability. He sent me the 29 page document that compares different rubbers with hundreds of chemicals. I tend to lean towards his experience as well. Antifreeze is primarily Glycol and water. What gives??? Even on your site it recommends neoprene and glycol with a "A".

Here's the reference to antifreeze on wikepedia. It is glycol or methanol based (older formulas):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze

The 29 page document is a PDF or I would post that as well.

*edit* I found it on their website:
http://www.midatlanticrubber.com/pdf/compatability.pdf

I think either neoprene or buna-n (commonly called nitril or NBR) would be fine. I am not sure where your website gets its information that "antifreeze" (and who knows what type it is referencing) is not compatabile when it lists, water, methanol, and glycolic acid as all compatible with neoprene?!? <---Weird :banghead:

If you look at the chemical compatibility for rust inhibitors, which antifreeze contains, Neoprene only gets a "C" rating, whereas Buna N gets an "A" rating. This could be the difference.

If your friend has access to the Chemical compatibility guide of Elastomers, published by Compass, get him to check in there. They often have ratings broken down by different temperature ranges, which can give different ratings based on the temperature of the chemical.

kdlewis1975 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:06 pm

I imagine the crystallization that you're observing is due to some of the inhibitors in the antifreeze solution. I think the water may be carrying the fatty acid salts though the paper gasket and these could be the crystals you're seeing. It would make sense that the hydrocarbon-based rubber gaskets could have a slight issue with the fatty acids.

Does this warrant consideration? http://www.permatex.com/documents/tds/A ... /81878.pdf

Water isn't going to make it through. I actually used this as the "gasket" for blocking off my EGR. This should have excellent ethylene glycol resistance. Temperature won't be an issue. You don't have to worry about cutting a gasket...just have to apply this carefully.

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:50 pm

kdlewis1975 wrote:

I imagine the crystallization that you're observing is due to some of the inhibitors in the antifreeze solution. I think the water may be carrying the fatty acid salts though the paper gasket and these could be the crystals you're seeing. It would make sense that the hydrocarbon-based rubber gaskets could have a slight issue with the fatty acids.

Does this warrant consideration? http://www.permatex.com/documents/tds/A ... /81878.pdf

Water isn't going to make it through. I actually used this as the "gasket" for blocking off my EGR. This should have excellent ethylene glycol resistance. Temperature won't be an issue. You don't have to worry about cutting a gasket...just have to apply this carefully.

Well, I don't want people to have to layer the permatex every time they change the T-stat and hope for a good seal. Too many variables, but if i can produce a gasket that seals well and is reusable it is a simpler solution. I plan on creating a stamp sort of thing to cut the gaskets so it should be quick to make them out of the sheet Buna N.

kdlewis1975 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:27 pm

kapalczynski wrote:

kdlewis1975 wrote:

I imagine the crystallization that you're observing is due to some of the inhibitors in the antifreeze solution. I think the water may be carrying the fatty acid salts though the paper gasket and these could be the crystals you're seeing. It would make sense that the hydrocarbon-based rubber gaskets could have a slight issue with the fatty acids.

Does this warrant consideration? http://www.permatex.com/documents/tds/A ... /81878.pdf

Water isn't going to make it through. I actually used this as the "gasket" for blocking off my EGR. This should have excellent ethylene glycol resistance. Temperature won't be an issue. You don't have to worry about cutting a gasket...just have to apply this carefully.

Well, I don't want people to have to layer the permatex every time they change the T-stat and hope for a good seal. Too many variables, but if i can produce a gasket that seals well and is reusable it is a simpler solution. I plan on creating a stamp sort of thing to cut the gaskets so it should be quick to make them out of the sheet Buna N.

Fair enough, although it's hard to be the temperature tolerance and oxidation resistance of a silicone. You could check these guys out. They'll pretty much sell you a sheet of anything to make a gasket from: http://www.superiorseals.com/sheeting.asp

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:45 pm

The buna-n (nitril) is much cheaper than silicone ($8 for a sheet 4" x 36" and should be more than enough temperature resistance for this application.

The silicon sheets may not have the hardness I want or retained resilliance for our application. Silicon is meant to bond and seal, I'm not sure if a sheet of it would have the compression strength that the buna-n does. Silicon on their site doesn't list the durometer hardness rating. Do you have any stats on that?

I noticed they sell it at mcmaster carr as well, but like I said it is more than 2x as much and I don't expect the buna-n to have any failures at all.

kdlewis1975 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:59 pm

I don't have any durometer numbers...not something I typically think in terms of. I guess that's something one would have to call and inquire about. Personally, I don't have a good feel for what the ideal hardness/softness would need to be. This could be why this there's a fiberglass reinforced silicone available to make up for the softness.

For lack of sufficient data out there, or at least that's readily available, I guess we won't know which material is up to the task until we undergo a bit of real-world testing. Probably anything you choose is going to have a lifespan that surpasses that of the paper-based gasket you have currently.

In the event of failures, I know of a guy making a punch that could easily produce them from some other material if needed and potentially distribute "gasket upgrades" for a modest price. :wink:

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:49 pm

kdlewis1975 wrote:

I don't have any durometer numbers...not something I typically think in terms of. I guess that's something one would have to call and inquire about. Personally, I don't have a good feel for what the ideal hardness/softness would need to be. This could be why this there's a fiberglass reinforced silicone available to make up for the softness.

For lack of sufficient data out there, or at least that's readily available, I guess we won't know which material is up to the task until we undergo a bit of real-world testing. Probably anything you choose is going to have a lifespan that surpasses that of the paper-based gasket you have currently.

In the event of failures, I know of a guy making a punch that could easily produce them from some other material if needed and potentially distribute "gasket upgrades" for a modest price. :wink:

Is it you that is making punches for gaskets? I was thinking of doing the same thing..a dremel, a housing, and a press and there you go!

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:57 pm

Another update -

So I am finished with the machining on the 4 housings I have, finished with the intermediate plates. Just need to clean the housings and let dry, install the studs, and cut/create and install the gaskets...waiting on some material still.

Ordered 1/16" thick - 70 hardness, 1/8" - 70, and 1/8" - 50 Buna-N material to try different thicknesses and hardnesses to see what I like for a good seal/longevity. Hoping to find one that seals great and is reusable for a lifetime (ish - give or take a year...lol). I'm afraid that too thin or too soft will stick and not come off in one nice piece after subjected to time, pressure and repeated heat-cycling.

Also ordered some data logging software to try to capture loaded and unloaded runs/cruises on graphs for comparison of the different temp T-stats as well as comparing the FFF mod (Fixed flex fan) to the factory fan setup.

- Mark

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Wed May 05, 2010 1:30 am

Just another update. Everything is ready, just waiting for the gasket material. It shipped out yesterday so it should be here soon. Sorry to keep you all waiting. I should be ready to ship the completed assemblies out the beginning of next week if the material gets here by this friday.

- Mark

stoutdog · **Posted:** Wed May 05, 2010 2:23 am

kapalczynski wrote:

Just another update. Everything is ready, just waiting for the gasket material. It shipped out yesterday so it should be here soon. Sorry to keep you all waiting. I should be ready to ship the completed assemblies out the beginning of next week if the material gets here by this friday.

- Mark

Mark, you're the man. Let us know! :JEEPIN:

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Wed May 05, 2010 6:54 am

kapalczynski wrote:

Also ordered some data logging software to try to capture loaded and unloaded runs/cruises on graphs for comparison of the different temp T-stats as well as comparing the FFF mod (Fixed flex fan) to the factory fan setup.
- Mark

That's what I've been cursious about :jester:

Squeeto · **Posted:** Wed May 05, 2010 10:33 am

kapalczynski wrote:

Just another update. Everything is ready, just waiting for the gasket material. It shipped out yesterday so it should be here soon. Sorry to keep you all waiting. I should be ready to ship the completed assemblies out the beginning of next week if the material gets here by this friday.

- Mark

I've said it before and I'll say it again - thank you.
Another mod to make ours great trucks even better.

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Wed May 05, 2010 10:25 pm

I'll say it again too...Thanks man.

I appreciate the appreciation.

**Update**

The gasket material came in today. I have a church thing tomorrow night and had a date night w/ my wife tonight so I'll work on it fri or sat and will be ready to send the thermostats out Monday. I just sent PM's to the first 3 on the waiting list (plus squeeto since I already had a core unit form him). If someone is not ready for the t-stat I will pass them up and move to the next on the list since there are so many waiting and go back to them in the original order for the next batch.

- Mark

CRD Joe · **Posted:** Thu May 06, 2010 2:25 am

I'm interested

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Tue May 11, 2010 11:56 pm

New gaskets get a great seal, everything went together great, but may have a slight design change coming so I am holding the first batch of thermostats for now. Squeeto, I am sending you a new stock jeep thermostat out tomorrow because I know you were waiting on this setup to get your jeep back on the road. I'll send you a PM also to make sure u know whats going on.

The issue is the stock thermostat had more travel than the tested one I am using in my housing. I was assembling the housings and decided to test the new stats for opening and closing lengths to ensure the secondary function of the thermostat that blocks the bottom port of the housing is functioning properly. I have done some preliminary measurements, and the original jeep thermostat is capable of moving 10 mm if necessary and the after market thermostat is only capable of roughly 3 mm. It looks like it may be about 1-2 mm short of blocking the bottom plate off to properly close that port when jeep reaches full optimum temperature.

I am now attempting more research on where the bottom port goes, what its function is, and if it would hurt or help economy to have this slightly open at full operating temp, along with will it hurt cooling to have a small amount of flow going this direction at full operating temp. I have been running this design on my jeep and haven't seen any adverse effects at all, but want to make sure I produce a flawless lifetime product for you all. (Cooling on my jeep is great, temp stays right at 190.5 at a cruise or idling extensively, heater works great).

It appears to go down to a collection point and recirculates into the main system...
I'll post a separate topic on this to see if any of our Mopar guys on here can help me out.

- Mark

stoutdog · **Posted:** Wed May 12, 2010 9:28 am

No worries, Mark. A long-lasting product is better than a rushed one.... Just let us know!

Squeeto · **Posted:** Wed May 12, 2010 11:58 am

Mark, PMs sent.

forensic · **Posted:** Thu May 13, 2010 6:04 pm

Mark,
I am patiently wait for correct product. Thanks for the update!! and your hard work!! I know it is truly appreciated by all crd members!
Cliff

bugnout · **Posted:** Thu May 13, 2010 11:24 pm

Subscribed. I'm very impressed.

192º Thermostat - Parts Diagram/dimensions added page 1

Who is online