Assembly Photos (gaskets and studs are not shown for the example):




[img]http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w189/mkzynski/Finished%20housing/TSassembly5.jpg?t=1273962610[img]
[/img]http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w189/mkzynski/Finished%20housing/TSassembly6.jpg?t=1273962633[/img]

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

New thermostat does not reach this surface to block off the port (from engine to engine port).


Thermostat is already as low as possible. Machining the surface 2mm lower would compromise the housing and it would fall apart.



Solution: Make adapter piece that raises the block off port sealing surface 2-3mm higher
[img]lower%20sealing%20surface%20to[/img]

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

lol well then...lol I read your post too late. Totally my fault for not ever posting any internal pics or ever explaining the assembly. But at least now everyone can understand the problem as we do now.

Thx for bearing with my poor explanations.

- Mark

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

Beautiful work. It is too bad you have to keep modding.
I wonder if a high temp 1.5mm square o-ring would stay if pressed in.

The edge of the area you could press it is at a 45* angle...cant press there. Unfortunately you would have to make something that can fit on the 90* angle sides further down that has a lip that comes up.

I will look into aluminum tube with an ID of 1/2" and an OD of 1-3/8". The part of the piece that gets pressed in will need to be around 1-1/8" in OD (thats what the hole diameter looks to be). This should be a relatively simple fix...just need the aluminum round-stock and the time. lol

All in good time my friends. I will first look on mcmaster-carr for a aluminum bushing that is the right size, but not likely.

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

Actually, I wouldn't mind the pics, as I'm totally lost now on how this is operating. How can we have TWO separate sealing surfaces in one TS shaft? Looking at the upper seal, it obviously is pushed upwards to seal the radiator when cold. But my understanding of thermostats is that the water pressure from the INSIDE (engine side) is pushing against the disc, trying to get out to the radiator, while the spring is resisting that pressure. Upon sufficient heat transfer into the disc / spring / TC shaft, the center shaft extends which weakens the spring tension... The water pressure pushes the disc down and escapes to the radiator.

According to the image above... For that description to be correct, the water pressure would have to be coming from the radiator side to push past that upper disc, AND from the bottom rectangle entrance to push the lower disc toward the center.

WTF? I'm confoosed.

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Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

Ok... I think I'm either getting closer to understanding the thermodynamics of this, or the rum is helping me THINK that I am.



Looking at this image, I can see how the thin peg at the top of the TS would apply physical pressure to the fixed housing as it lengthened from heating. Is the upper disc in a fixed position in relation to that peg? Meaning - As the peg lengthened, THAT is what pushes the upper disc down and opens the outlet? If that is correct, then the large diameter spring... Isn't really doing much?

As for the lower disc, is that also in a fixed position in relation to the center shaft (which seems to be a different piece than the upper peg) so that as the center expands, it "rides down" into the sealing surface...?

Sheesh. Masters of Fine Arts and a college professor... And I feel like a blithering idiot for not being able to conceptualize the operation of something that has existed on vehicles for 80 years.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

Ok, I think you are getting it. The upper disc moves away from the housing. The large diameter spring holds the tstat against the water outlet and keeps water from going through the radiator at closed tstat condition. You can't see in this pic, but the 2 flanges that stick out on the side are mounted in the middle of the housing. The lower disc is in a fixed pos compared to center shaft and the lower spring absorbs movement after the port is blocked adn the piston is still moving the tstat down further. The jeep tstat is not the traditional one you see in vehicles. On the Stock jeep tstat - The piston at the top is moved out by the expanding wax inside the brass cylinder and pushes against the housing iteslf. This then puts pressure on the water outlet housing itself and pushes the whole assembly down, away from the waterneck allowing water to flow from engine to radiator. As the tstat opens, the bottom flange of the tstat makes contact on the bottom of the tstat housing and seals and blocks off the bottom port back to the engine so water only goes from engine back to radiator at open tstat condition.


Ok, See photos below...the side wings I'm gonna call them rest in those little groves. This is how the large spring pushes the tstat in the closed direction...this force is overcome by the piston movement.



On my setup - The tstat opens by a piston pushing on a bar that goes across the thermostat iteslf (no pressure on water outlet housing like factory design) allowing the thermostat to open. As the tstat opens the lower disc gets pushed down and approaches the seating surface to block the lower port.

Piston pushes on bar going across the tstat on my setup:


So the only real difference is the stock jeep tstat pushes against the housing instead of a bar on the thermostat itself and the fact the factory tstat has a bit more travel capabilities. Thus we need to modify the bottom port so the thermostat can reach adn achieve full block-off during open tstat condition. See below:

Piston pushes against housing on factory setup:



Hope I explained this right...lol its is a bit complicated when you can't hold the parts in your hand.

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

Going for my doctorate in history and I feel the same way....

I ain't no stinkin' engineer!

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2006 Jeep Liberty CRD, Limited
GDE Eco Tune, GDE TCM Tune, Bauer 203* Tstat, Amsoil EaA 201 Filter, Clean MAP, Samco CAC Hoses, Magnaflow Muffler #12226.
New Mopar Fuel Filter, K&N Filterminder, Fumoto Oil Drain Valve
225/75R16 Hankook Dynapros

Kap - Yea, your description helps, it kinda was where I was getting to mentally. So on this replacement TS, like on the factory one, that small piston / peg at the top is the business end of the thing that does all the pushing. Now it is starting to compute.

The true expression of scientific discovery is not "Eureka!" but rather is "Hmm, thats funny..."

For all this work, if we ever meet, first round is on me.



See, that is what is sad - I AM an engineer! Theatre Technical Director, I have to be able to build and modify all manner of things to work in theatre shows. I call my degree field the Masters of Material Misuse.

The glass is neither half full, nor half empty. It is twice as efficient as needed for the current task... HEY! Who drank half my rum?

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

Cool, its good to have everyone on the same page so we can all think together for solutions...though I'm pretty sure a pressed in piece with 3mm flange will solve the problem.

Diagrams...kinda crude...don't laugh :

The grey is the new piece that wouold be pressed in:


The red is the new piece:

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

Yea, but this isn't quite hanging curtains and shining lights... this is REAL engineering.

I kid... I kid...

Kap, after geordi buys you a round, the second one's on me

Question: The bottom port, that you are trying to block off, does what exactly? Like geordi, I'm still trying to figure out our CRDs backwards tstat design... this looks very different from my old Cummins.

_________________
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD, Limited
GDE Eco Tune, GDE TCM Tune, Bauer 203* Tstat, Amsoil EaA 201 Filter, Clean MAP, Samco CAC Hoses, Magnaflow Muffler #12226.
New Mopar Fuel Filter, K&N Filterminder, Fumoto Oil Drain Valve
225/75R16 Hankook Dynapros

The bottom port only gets blocked when thermostat is open. This is factory. When bottom port is open adn thermostat is closed this allows the coolant to recirculate through the engine constantly. When the thermostat opens this port is blocked and allows coolant to flow only through the radiator. With the new 192* thermostat design the new tstat doesn't completely block this bottom port as it should when the tstat is open. The red adapter in the pic(will use machined aluminum) will raise the contact surface of the port so the stat will be able to function as the factory one did. The adapter will be hollow and have a hole in the exit side to let coolant flow out the bottom port, its only purpose is to raise the contact surface to a height the new thermostat can contact to block the port when the tstat is open.

- Mark

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

Ahh, that was the part I'd been missing. Okay, that makes sense, thanks.

_________________
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD, Limited
GDE Eco Tune, GDE TCM Tune, Bauer 203* Tstat, Amsoil EaA 201 Filter, Clean MAP, Samco CAC Hoses, Magnaflow Muffler #12226.
New Mopar Fuel Filter, K&N Filterminder, Fumoto Oil Drain Valve
225/75R16 Hankook Dynapros

Mark, best guess, what will be the final (cold temperature) clearance between the the bypass valve and this new mod fitting? What is the stock clearance?

About 3mm, not sure on stock clearance. Are you thinking there may be not enough flow with adapter?

I calculated that the flow of coolant is more restricted by the output pipe than the 3mm of gap before the outlet pipe.

Here's the math:

We need circumference of the bottom plate of thermostat times the 3mm clearance to find the area that the coolant can flow:

C= Pie x radius

Pie.... x 15.875mm(radius of bottom plate of thermostat) = 49.873mm
C=49.873mm

49.873mm x 3mm = 149.618 mm squared = the total area of flow allowed past the bottom of thermostat towards the bottom port (at closed position).

Now we need the area that the coolant can flow through the pipe:

The bypass pipe itself is .5" (12.7mm) in diameter.

A= Pie x radius squared

12.7 diameter/2 = radius of 6.35mm

6.35 squared = 40.323
40.323mm x pie = 126.677 mm squared = area of pipe opening

Therefore pipe is more restrictive than thermostat clearance. Its a non issue...

- Mark

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

Funny, I was just working out the curtain area too. And yes, this was my thought.
You should have C=Pie x diameter though.

I measured the port to be .479 inch diam. = .179 square inch

the valve opening at 1.09 inch = .404 sq in (2.3 x larger)

No worries

You're right, messed up the formula...I was just thinking those were different numbers than I got earlier at home...again, I'm working a night shift tonite and its way past the time where my brain can function nominally.

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

I lobotomized my thermostat, guess what, an o-ring.
More info to ponder.

The cap part has the only "meat". There is not enough of the remaining shell part to affix to. You were smart to tap through the center of the tabs designed to hold the old thermostat device.

The edge of the cap and housing is slightly angled to hold the cap in. The condition of the o-ring is good and I can see it leak proof for 10+ years (not a cause for design change). Someone asked about the possible longevity of the "new" thermostat; I can see this o-ring as the limiting factor.

If I find the thermostat leaking in the far future, I will weld the seam and re-mill.