Timing belt - OUCH

onthehunt · **Posted:** Sat May 15, 2010 3:50 pm

Oil cost is not a factor when you go 10-12k between changes as the owners manual states. That's 2-4 oil changes in a gasser plus your time. What's delicate about the turbo? How about resale value?? I don't know if I would say it is cheaper to drive a gasser but I do know it isn't more expensive to drive a crd.

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Sun May 16, 2010 3:51 am

LibertyCRD wrote:

CRD Joe wrote:

LibertyCRD wrote:

The moral of the story is that any fuel economy advantage is easily over-ridden by the cost of maintenance on this things. You have to love diesel, because financially there is zero benefit.

Well...I will start saving up the money and will likely be doing this in the next 12 months as I am coming up on 100K faster than I thought.

I dont see how this is accurate. So far the only issues Im having to deal with will be the timing belt. Its years away. Im getting in the 30's on the highway and mid twentys around town. The gasser KJ's I know of are in the 12 to 14 range around town. There is a clear benefit to the CRD.

Around here, gassers are averaging 16-17 MPG and CRDs are averaging low 20s. So the fuel savings for the average person is about 50-100 bucks per month. In the 4 months I've had this CRD, a total near $2,000 has been spent keeping it on the road. So the fuel economy savings is EASILY wiped out by the upkeep.

Factor in that oil is more expensive, and there are more delicate parts such as the turbo to worry about, there is thread after thread about EGR problems, dumping hundreds on the timing belt, TC problems, and the truth is you are NOT saving money over the life of the vehicle by driving a CRD rather than a gas KJ. We drive them because we love the diesel torque.

01 GMC sierra to work and back 15mpg. CRD to work and back 24mpg. Timing belt needs to be replaced every 8 YEARS MPG more than makes up for the $520.00 every 8 years for me. No question here.

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Sun May 16, 2010 3:55 am

LibertyCRD wrote:

Called the only reputable CRD dealership in the area. Got quoted $200 for the timing belt, and $500 for the labor. OUCH.

Is the CRD tool kit absolutely necessary to change this belt?? I'm going to have to do this in the next 12 months and I've already dumped thousands in repairs into this thing lately. My wife will kill me if I tell her it needs a $700 timing belt.

I believe there is a price list and part number list on the forum floating around. I spent $500 in parts for belt, 2 idlers, tensioner, water pump, gaskets. I rented tools from Keith at GDE for $20. Spent half a day taking my time and checking/doubble-checking things. Now I am good to go for another 100k miles. I do agree a timing chain would be nice...if it was dependable. I heard the early version of our motor had a chain, but had breaking issues...glad our belts last 100k and are reliable.

- Mark

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Sun May 16, 2010 6:20 pm

onthehunt wrote:

Oil cost is not a factor when you go 10-12k between changes as the owners manual states. That's 2-4 oil changes in a gasser plus your time. What's delicate about the turbo? How about resale value?? I don't know if I would say it is cheaper to drive a gasser but I do know it isn't more expensive to drive a crd.

We must have different owners manuals because mine does NOT mention 10-12K mile oil changes anywhere inside. Mine says 6,250 miles, and I've been changing at 5K mile intervals because I occasionally tow and drive in dusty environments.

The turbo? Are you kidding? One large particle gets sucked in there accidentally and POOF it's game over. That's why the air filter is so much more important on these than a gasser, which again adds cost and vigilence. From a financial standpoint I could write a lengthy explanation of why it is not cheaper to drive the CRD, but it would be boring for most folks here. :mrgreen:

stoutdog · **Posted:** Sun May 16, 2010 7:56 pm

LibertyCRD wrote:

onthehunt wrote:

Oil cost is not a factor when you go 10-12k between changes as the owners manual states. That's 2-4 oil changes in a gasser plus your time. What's delicate about the turbo? How about resale value?? I don't know if I would say it is cheaper to drive a gasser but I do know it isn't more expensive to drive a crd.

We must have different owners manuals because mine does NOT mention 10-12K mile oil changes anywhere inside. Mine says 6,250 miles, and I've been changing at 5K mile intervals because I occasionally tow and drive in dusty environments.

The turbo? Are you kidding? One large particle gets sucked in there accidentally and POOF it's game over. That's why the air filter is so much more important on these than a gasser, which again adds cost and vigilence. From a financial standpoint I could write a lengthy explanation of why it is not cheaper to drive the CRD, but it would be boring for most folks here. :mrgreen:

$30, 100k mile Amsoil Air Filter; check at every oil change. :roll:

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Sun May 16, 2010 8:18 pm

stoutdog wrote:

LibertyCRD wrote:

onthehunt wrote:

Oil cost is not a factor when you go 10-12k between changes as the owners manual states. That's 2-4 oil changes in a gasser plus your time. What's delicate about the turbo? How about resale value?? I don't know if I would say it is cheaper to drive a gasser but I do know it isn't more expensive to drive a crd.

We must have different owners manuals because mine does NOT mention 10-12K mile oil changes anywhere inside. Mine says 6,250 miles, and I've been changing at 5K mile intervals because I occasionally tow and drive in dusty environments.

The turbo? Are you kidding? One large particle gets sucked in there accidentally and POOF it's game over. That's why the air filter is so much more important on these than a gasser, which again adds cost and vigilence. From a financial standpoint I could write a lengthy explanation of why it is not cheaper to drive the CRD, but it would be boring for most folks here. :mrgreen:

$30, 100k mile Amsoil Air Filter; check at every oil change. :roll:

100K on an air filter that protects a $2,000 turbo? Are you serious? Isn't that kind of like the brake pads they sell at the auto parts stores with a "lifetime warranty" on them? :-)r

They'll tell you anything to sell a product these days. If you want to trust it, that's up to you I guess. But when I pull my filter at 5,000 miles it's already turning black. There is no way I'd leave ANY filter in there for 100K.

stoutdog · **Posted:** Sun May 16, 2010 9:56 pm

LibertyCRD wrote:

stoutdog wrote:

LibertyCRD wrote:

We must have different owners manuals because mine does NOT mention 10-12K mile oil changes anywhere inside. Mine says 6,250 miles, and I've been changing at 5K mile intervals because I occasionally tow and drive in dusty environments.

The turbo? Are you kidding? One large particle gets sucked in there accidentally and POOF it's game over. That's why the air filter is so much more important on these than a gasser, which again adds cost and vigilence. From a financial standpoint I could write a lengthy explanation of why it is not cheaper to drive the CRD, but it would be boring for most folks here. :mrgreen:

$30, 100k mile Amsoil Air Filter; check at every oil change. :roll:

100K on an air filter that protects a $2,000 turbo? Are you serious? Isn't that kind of like the brake pads they sell at the auto parts stores with a "lifetime warranty" on them? :-)r

They'll tell you anything to sell a product these days. If you want to trust it, that's up to you I guess. But when I pull my filter at 5,000 miles it's already turning black. There is no way I'd leave ANY filter in there for 100K.

I'm far from the only person on here running an Amsoil air filter... In fact, it was a group of folks on here that recommended it to me. I doubt I'll put the full 100k miles on it, as the "four-year lifespan" will be up long before I reach that mark. Still, it is an efficient filter that is not magically going to start letting harmful particles through... the worst it could do is get clogged up, which is why I have a filterminder.

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Sun May 16, 2010 10:53 pm

LibertyCRD wrote:

onthehunt wrote:

Oil cost is not a factor when you go 10-12k between changes as the owners manual states. That's 2-4 oil changes in a gasser plus your time. What's delicate about the turbo? How about resale value?? I don't know if I would say it is cheaper to drive a gasser but I do know it isn't more expensive to drive a crd.

We must have different owners manuals because mine does NOT mention 10-12K mile oil changes anywhere inside. Mine says 6,250 miles, and I've been changing at 5K mile intervals because I occasionally tow and drive in dusty environments.

The turbo? Are you kidding? One large particle gets sucked in there accidentally and POOF it's game over. That's why the air filter is so much more important on these than a gasser, which again adds cost and vigilence. From a financial standpoint I could write a lengthy explanation of why it is not cheaper to drive the CRD, but it would be boring for most folks here. :mrgreen:

Mine says this for oil change intervals:

MAINTENANCE SCHEDULES — DIESEL ENGINES
There are two maintenance schedules that show the
required service for your vehicle.
First is Schedule B. It is for vehicles that are operated
under the conditions that are listed below and at the
beginning of the schedule.
• Day or night temperatures are below 32°F (0°C).
• Stop and go driving.
• Extensive engine idling.
• Driving in dusty conditions.
• Short trips of less than 10 miles (16.2 km).
• More than 50% of your driving is at sustained high
speeds during hot weather, above 90°F (32°C).
• Trailer towing.
• Taxi, police, or delivery service (commercial service).
• Off-road or desert driving.
NOTE: Most vehicles are operated under the conditions
listed for Schedule “B.”
Second is Schedule “A”. It is for vehicles that are not
operated under any of the conditions listed under Schedule
“B.”
Use the schedule that best describes your driving conditions.
Where time and mileage are listed, follow the
interval that occurs first.

SCHEDULE B:
Miles 6,250 12,500 18,750 25,000 31,250
Change the engine oil and engine oil filter. X X X X X

SCHEDULE A:
Miles 12,500 25,000 37,500 50,000
Change the engine oil and engine oil filter. X X X X

Though most of us fall in the "B" category, some of us can do 12k oil changes according to Schedule "A" in the manual.

I would recommend after 6250miles, get oil analyzed, then adjust service interval according to results.

- Mark

onthehunt · **Posted:** Mon May 17, 2010 12:18 am

I fall into the B service catagory. I have done uoa since around 10k. I now run 10k between changes and will extend to 12k on the next oil change. My uoa backs it up. There is nothing more delicate on this turbo than any other turbo, gas or diesel. Your vastly overstating the one large particle theory, unless you run without an air cleaner.

linewarbr · **Posted:** Mon May 17, 2010 11:49 am

I ran an Amsoil Ea Air Filter for about 30K till last Friday. Noticed on the highway that the Jeep was just not giving me any power, felt like it was choked. Stopped at an O'Reilly and bought a Wix air filter, replaced it, and the beast growls again.

I say that because it is both good and bad. I just vacuumed this air filter out at my last oil change (about 5k miles ago) and I would expect it to go a little further before clogging, so I don't think it will make it to 100k miles. The good is that the filter clogged - I've been on a construction site in southeast Texas for the last 2 weeks. It has been dry and very dusty. The fact that the filter clogged tells me that it was doing it's job.

As far as repairs, not counting preventative maintenance, I have spent $0 repairing this vehicle. I've put 50k miles on this thing since September of 2008 (18 months) and have only spent money on performance or preventative mods, (Airbox, Samco's, Provent, GDE tune, Magnaflow) maintenance (oil changes, fuel filter changes, tires, brakes, trans and diff fluid/ filter changes) and car washes.

I've had a few "weird" times where something went on that I did not like. I have had an intermittent trans weirdness ever since changing fluid and filters, but I solved that by shifting into neutral at a stop when the engine is not up to operating temperature. My suspension is shot, but I will shortly be remedying that with a Frankenlift. (And some would consider suspension a maintenance item anyway)

Check my sig for my mileage, and notice my tire size, modifications, and the fact that I rack up 90% of my mileage on I-10 driving 80 - 85 mph. So far, buying this Jeep has been one of the best decisions I've made.

jinstall · **Posted:** Mon May 17, 2010 6:56 pm

My CRD has been worth it's weight in gold. It has done EVERYTHING I have asked of it and then some. I used the best oil for it and Premium Diesel in it whenever I can. I woul dbuy another one in a heartbeat over a gas KJ/KK. I have spent more in parts for wear and tear items than I have for CRD specific parts. The fact I could cruise at 100mph and get 20mpg in the CRD is something a gas KJ could NEVER do. There seems to be alot of CRD hate in this thread for some reason.

kjfishman · **Posted:** Mon May 17, 2010 8:56 pm

Did the $700 include the water pump and new belt tensioners?

cwheels · **Joined:** Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:57 pm **Posts:** 11

LibertyCRD wrote:

CRD Joe wrote:

LibertyCRD wrote:

The moral of the story is that any fuel economy advantage is easily over-ridden by the cost of maintenance on this things. You have to love diesel, because financially there is zero benefit.

Well...I will start saving up the money and will likely be doing this in the next 12 months as I am coming up on 100K faster than I thought.

I dont see how this is accurate. So far the only issues Im having to deal with will be the timing belt. Its years away. Im getting in the 30's on the highway and mid twentys around town. The gasser KJ's I know of are in the 12 to 14 range around town. There is a clear benefit to the CRD.

Around here, gassers are averaging 16-17 MPG and CRDs are averaging low 20s. So the fuel savings for the average person is about 50-100 bucks per month. In the 4 months I've had this CRD, a total near $2,000 has been spent keeping it on the road. So the fuel economy savings is EASILY wiped out by the upkeep.

Factor in that oil is more expensive, and there are more delicate parts such as the turbo to worry about, there is thread after thread about EGR problems, dumping hundreds on the timing belt, TC problems, and the truth is you are NOT saving money over the life of the vehicle by driving a CRD rather than a gas KJ. We drive them because we love the diesel torque.

Start running home brew fuel and you'll really know what saving money is all about in a diesel. I could care less what the local gas station raises or lowers the price of fuel to. I pull up to the shed and fill her up a 1/4 tank. Just for the record I've got nearly 45,000 of the nearly 90,000 miles on my jeep and have only spent around $850 on the GDE eco tune and new cac hoses. I'm very confident in the fact I'm saving $$$$$ with the CRD.

Timing belt - OUCH

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