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 Post subject: EGR Question
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:09 am 
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After reading through the forums, I plan on checking the MAF sensor and clean it if necessary.

Why does this vehicle have EGR problems? There are a lot of diesels on the road from larger pickup trucks to semis. Do those have the same problems?

I have virtually all of the service records for my CRD (I'm the second owner) and it has had approximately 4 EGR valves...but hasn't had a problem with the system since 2008. Did Jeep upgrade the valve?

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 Post subject: Re: EGR Question
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:32 am 
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changingtime wrote:
After reading through the forums, I plan on checking the MAF sensor and clean it if necessary.

Why does this vehicle have EGR problems? There are a lot of diesels on the road from larger pickup trucks to semis. Do those have the same problems?

I have virtually all of the service records for my CRD (I'm the second owner) and it has had approximately 4 EGR valves...but hasn't had a problem with the system since 2008. Did Jeep upgrade the valve?


You probably mean to check and clean the MAP sensor, not MAF.

I think a lot of the EGR valve failures back in the day were misdiagnosed as a bad FCV (EGR Flow Control Valve).

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 Post subject: Re: EGR Question
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:44 am 
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ah, so if they had the control valve replaced, it probably fixed the egr issues....now, the MAF still needs to be cleaned?

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 Post subject: Re: EGR Question
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 10:56 am 
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changingtime wrote:
ah, so if they had the control valve replaced, it probably fixed the egr issues....now, the MAF still needs to be cleaned?

You need to clean the MAP sensor, not the MAF sensor - two different things. See the CRD Tech page for instructions.

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 Post subject: Re: EGR Question
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:34 am 
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have you cleaned your MAP sensor, if so, what did you use?

I looked at the other page and want to make sure that i don't damage the part with break cleaner, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: EGR Question
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:36 am 
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changingtime wrote:
Why does this vehicle have EGR problems? There are a lot of diesels on the road from larger pickup trucks to semis. Do those have the same problems?



The quick answer is that all the other trucks (including semis) on the road don't have have problems because they don't have EGRs. EGR = Evil. The stupid EPA makes a lot of stupid decisions, and one of them was to force the EGR system on newer diesels for the purpose of supposedly reducing emissions. Problem is, the EGR chokes diesels down to the point where they are burning more fuel and emitting more thereby counteracting any benefit of the EGR. Again, stupid EPA at work.

If you notice, the guys with the new Dodge trucks running the Cummins are deleting the EGR. This makes the engine much more reliable and adds other benefits. The main benefit of our GDE tune on the Jeeps is that it disables the EGR almost completely.

In the past, diesels didn't have EGR at all which is why they run for 500,000 miles with no problems and get great fuel economy.

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 Post subject: Re: EGR Question
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:45 am 
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changingtime wrote:
have you cleaned your MAP sensor, if so, what did you use?

I looked at the other page and want to make sure that i don't damage the part with break cleaner, etc.




FYI....I clean mine with a brake cleaner that leaves no residue. It is CRC Brakleen.

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 Post subject: Re: EGR Question
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:35 pm 
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Not all EGR systems are created equal. Some EGR equipped diesel engines have a valve which runs hotter than ours, thus burning off a certain amount of soot. They also have a flow-through design which reduces dead zones where soot can build up. The biggest weakness in our system is a solenoid driven valve which has much less force to open and close than a stepper motor or even a vacuum motor. No Diesel engine should ever have an EGR valve, but no one has ever accused our Government of doing things the right way.

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 Post subject: Re: EGR Question
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 10:13 pm 
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LibertyCRD wrote:
changingtime wrote:
Why does this vehicle have EGR problems? There are a lot of diesels on the road from larger pickup trucks to semis. Do those have the same problems?



The quick answer is that all the other trucks (including semis) on the road don't have have problems because they don't have EGRs. EGR = Evil. The stupid EPA makes a lot of stupid decisions, and one of them was to force the EGR system on newer diesels for the purpose of supposedly reducing emissions. Problem is, the EGR chokes diesels down to the point where they are burning more fuel and emitting more thereby counteracting any benefit of the EGR. Again, stupid EPA at work.

If you notice, the guys with the new Dodge trucks running the Cummins are deleting the EGR. This makes the engine much more reliable and adds other benefits. The main benefit of our GDE tune on the Jeeps is that it disables the EGR almost completely.

In the past, diesels didn't have EGR at all which is why they run for 500,000 miles with no problems and get great fuel economy.


Most any of the EPA '07 and newer diesel has an EGR system. From the Sprinter to a 60 Series Detroit. They all have EGR problems, some are more problematic than others.

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 Post subject: Re: EGR Question
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 10:48 pm 
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RAF 3829 wrote:
LibertyCRD wrote:
changingtime wrote:
Why does this vehicle have EGR problems? There are a lot of diesels on the road from larger pickup trucks to semis. Do those have the same problems?



The quick answer is that all the other trucks (including semis) on the road don't have have problems because they don't have EGRs. EGR = Evil. The stupid EPA makes a lot of stupid decisions, and one of them was to force the EGR system on newer diesels for the purpose of supposedly reducing emissions. Problem is, the EGR chokes diesels down to the point where they are burning more fuel and emitting more thereby counteracting any benefit of the EGR. Again, stupid EPA at work.

If you notice, the guys with the new Dodge trucks running the Cummins are deleting the EGR. This makes the engine much more reliable and adds other benefits. The main benefit of our GDE tune on the Jeeps is that it disables the EGR almost completely.

In the past, diesels didn't have EGR at all which is why they run for 500,000 miles with no problems and get great fuel economy.


Most any of the EPA '07 and newer diesel has an EGR system. From the Sprinter to a 60 Series Detroit. They all have EGR problems, some are more problematic than others.


I agree with this RAF...FWIW, my uncle has been a mechanic for UPS for 25 years. He has definitely seen the changes over time. We talk a lot about what UPS buys because he is always interested in my Jeep and they purchase anything in their trucks from the new Powerstrokes to the Mercedes diesel. He told me that ever since the emissions-heavy diesels post-2007, they are lucky if they see 500K miles whereas previous would go 750-800K+ before a major overhaul.

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 Post subject: Re: EGR Question
PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 11:57 pm 
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LibertyCRD wrote:
changingtime wrote:
Why does this vehicle have EGR problems? There are a lot of diesels on the road from larger pickup trucks to semis. Do those have the same problems?



The quick answer is that all the other trucks (including semis) on the road don't have have problems because they don't have EGRs.



Which country? I have an '06 Cummins ISX 15L in my International 9400i and I will definately show you the EGR on it. ALL commercial Detroit, Cummins, Volvo, Mack, International, Paccar, Mercedes engines in class 8 trucks on the road have had and still have EGR since 2003. Don't take my word for it, go to a local Freightliner, International, KW, Mack, etc dealer and if you want to be the comedian of the moment in the mechanics lounge, then tell them that semi diesel engine don't have EGR. While it is true that the 2010 compliant engines are primarily going to SCR to reduce NOx, the still use EGR as well, though at a reduced level. The only exception to this is International in their Maxxforce engines which are using advanced EGR with no SCR to meet 2010 emission levels. Use of EGR was the motivating factor to also incorporating Diesel Particulate Filters in the exhaust stream in 2007 to remove soot and particulates from the exhaust. EGR created way higher levels of soot due to incomplete combustion due to reduced oxygen available in the cylinder and reduced combustion temperatures.

At least with my Cummins, disabling the EGR was a simple unplug process. Really cleaned up the engine, reduced wear metal levels in used oil samples, and improved mpg by at least 15%. Can't really comment on the Powerstrokes and other smaller diesels, but it is not uncommon, even with EGR on the large diesels, to still get 1 million and more miles before overhaul. I currently have 560,000 miles on my ISX and the wear numbers and other factors are almost as good as when the engine was new. And the engine went 400,000 miles with the EGR hooked up.

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 Post subject: Re: EGR Question
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 9:34 am 
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The EGR is supposed to reduce Nitrous Oxide emissions. In places like LA under perfect conditions of high temp, temp inversion, low or no wind, all the planets aligned, and all the Pot Heads at the correct level of Buzz, smog can form. In the rest of the country where the dense cities are not built in a bowl, it does not happen. But like the Global Warming Theory that is being proven to have been a total fabrication of false data, the EPA enforces what they think the regulations may be. Regulations made up by Lawyers (Lawyers see every thing in shades of gray) who are lied to by so called Scientists who want grant money (academic welfare) and make up crap with out doing the proper pier review. Anyone who does what a True Scientist is obligated to do and Question the findings, is ridiculed and cut off form any funding. Most of the True Scientists will come out of the Academic Welfare Closet when they retire, unfortunately they do not live long enough to challenge the BS. Corruption in the so called Environmental Scientific Community is as bad as the Court Clowns that kiss up to a Third World Despot like Kim Jung Il, or the Mayor of Chicago, Rich Daily.

Agriculture, yup our veggie crops, produce Nitrous Oxides, the Waste Water Plants produce Nitrous Oxide, but in the EPA's infinite wisdom, they don't ban veggie growing or Waste Water Plants in cities like areas like LA.
The next move is DEF or Urea that will be injected into the exhaust, it is coming up as a mandate even for the gassers.
With the way things are going with the EPA if they are not reigned in, veggie growers will need training licensees and fill out a bunch of paper work to grow a garden, Nazi Like Nitrous Oxide Abatement Officers will be patrolling neighborhoods asking to see permits and papers. :ROTFL:

I had a customer in a plating factory had to send off their Lemela Gravity Settler to have the contamination in the tank cleaned out because the truck driver did not properly tarp the unit. Who would think that washing a tank out that had road dust would produce waste water that could not be discharged into a Chicago Sewer with out going over the permit level.
Like I said, the EPA needs to be reigned in and have their power placed in check. if not you better do a great job of hiding your compost so the CO2 abatement Officers don't arrest you.
The EGR valve is stupid and evil for diesel engines. GDE Tune greatly reduces its' function and SEGR & ORM shuts it off.
Turbo Tim passed his emissions test with flying colors, need I say more.

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 Post subject: Re: EGR Question
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 9:51 am 
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RAF 3829 wrote:
Most any of the EPA '07 and newer diesel has an EGR system. From the Sprinter to a 60 Series Detroit. They all have EGR problems, some are more problematic than others.



Exactly! There was an active member here who worked at a Freightliner factory that shut down after the 2006 model year trucks were finished. Big trucking outfits bought more 2006 trucks then they needed to avoid the EGR devil of the 2007 MY.

Also VW tdi's from 99.5 and up (ALH engine) were prone to intake clogging from the EGR. At 60k miles and again at 120k mine was 50% clogged.
The cleaning job on a tdi was much easier then it will be on a CRD :banghead:

As far as smog in LA goes I understand the native indians learned this long before there were gasoline engines and avoided the area. I guess they are smarter then those living there now :BANANA:

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 Post subject: Re: EGR Question
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:28 pm 
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Joe Romas wrote:
RAF 3829 wrote:
Most any of the EPA '07 and newer diesel has an EGR system. From the Sprinter to a 60 Series Detroit. They all have EGR problems, some are more problematic than others.



Exactly! There was an active member here who worked at a Freightliner factory that shut down after the 2006 model year trucks were finished. Big trucking outfits bought more 2006 trucks then they needed to avoid the EGR devil of the 2007 MY.



Actually the fleets didn't pre buy in 2006 to avoid the EGR devil. Those engines have had EGR on them since 2003. They did the pre buy to avoid the diesel particulate filter requirement of 2007 and the increased use of EGR. They did the same thing in 2002 to avoid the 2003 EGR requirements. And they have done it again, though on a lessor scale, by pre buying in 2009 to avoid SCR in 2010. I think that most fleets are less frightened about SCR than they have been spooked in previous years.

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