2.8L CRD Blow-By

Rixram · **Posted:** Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:15 pm

stoutdog wrote:

He didn't say diesel was worse than gas... he said venting CCV fumes into the atmosphere was a very bad idea from a pollution standpoint. Today's modern diesels can be very environmentally friendly. Regardless of one's stance on global warming, pollution being pumped straight into the air we breathe is not a good thing.

But his post was completely relevant... some of us feel that investing the extra money in the Provent is a far more environmentally conscious decision than simply running the EHM. I believe that was the point he was trying to make.

Thanks Stout, that is a good piece of clearing confusion.

However, the original question/topic is how to stop the blow-by, not what to do with the resulting crankcase fumes from the existing blow-by. Any thoughts?

KaspinCRD · **Posted:** Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:44 pm

Rixram wrote:

However, the original question/topic is how to stop the blow-by, not what to do with the resulting crankcase fumes from the existing blow-by. Any thoughts?

You'll never completely stop blow-by until someone invents a perfectly sealing ring and cylinder liner combo that doesn't wear out.

One common issue with our CRDs is that the oil line on the dipstick is off, causing people to slightly over fill the crank case which can cause the extra oil to be blown out the CCV until it's down to the right amount the engine wants. If you fix this issue, that will reduce some of the stuff that comes out the CCV.

Crankworm · **Posted:** Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:46 pm

naturist wrote:

Please, please, please, do it right: put on a Provent or some similar system. Don't just dump your fumes into my air.

What does it matter if I put a few fumes in the air, BP never asked if they could RUIN my ocean.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:49 pm

Quote:

However, the original question/topic is how to stop the blow-by, not what to do with the resulting crankcase fumes from the existing blow-by. Any thoughts?

Well, you could simply not run the engine. This will also give you maximum fuel economy. :lol:

Or, you could completely tear down the engine and measure/verify all the clearances on the
piston rings. Then, when reassembling, ensure that all your ring gaps are clocked exactly 180
degrees from each other. Once assembly is complete, perform a compression check to make
sure each cylinder is within specifications.

Or, you can just accept the fact that despite blow-by, your engine is perfectly healthy.

Rixram · **Posted:** Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:18 pm

KaspinCRD wrote:

Rixram wrote:

However, the original question/topic is how to stop the blow-by, not what to do with the resulting crankcase fumes from the existing blow-by. Any thoughts?

You'll never completely stop blow-by until someone invents a perfectly sealing ring and cylinder liner combo that doesn't wear out.

One common issue with our CRDs is that the oil line on the dipstick is off, causing people to slightly over fill the crank case which can cause the extra oil to be blown out the CCV until it's down to the right amount the engine wants. If you fix this issue, that will reduce some of the stuff that comes out the CCV.

How far off is the oil line on the dipstick? And yes, I feel like a dipstick for asking.

Second stupid question: I hear rumors that the speedo reads like 4-5% off. I assume it reads high. So when I have 60 mph indicated, it is 57 actual? Correct?

stoutdog · **Posted:** Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:44 pm

Rixram wrote:

KaspinCRD wrote:

Rixram wrote:

However, the original question/topic is how to stop the blow-by, not what to do with the resulting crankcase fumes from the existing blow-by. Any thoughts?

You'll never completely stop blow-by until someone invents a perfectly sealing ring and cylinder liner combo that doesn't wear out.

One common issue with our CRDs is that the oil line on the dipstick is off, causing people to slightly over fill the crank case which can cause the extra oil to be blown out the CCV until it's down to the right amount the engine wants. If you fix this issue, that will reduce some of the stuff that comes out the CCV.

How far off is the oil line on the dipstick? And yes, I feel like a dipstick for asking.

Second stupid question: I hear rumors that the speedo reads like 4-5% off. I assume it reads high. So when I have 60 mph indicated, it is 57 actual? Correct?

Haha... For most people, halfway between the min and max lines seems to be the true max line. Next oil change, add exactly 6.4 quarts, measure, and mark it. As everyone else said, blow-by is just something that happens. You can deal with filtering CCV fumes, but not stopping them completely... not overfilling is about the only real prevention.

You are correct on the speedo, though some people have accurate ones... Easily testable with a GPS, if you have one laying around or that you can borrow for ten minutes.

Rixram · **Posted:** Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:27 pm

Sometimes I look at all the weird eccentracies on these CRDs and wonder if they simply made it out of spare parts they had laying around.

But ya know what? I love the darn thing, and won't give it up. 24+mpg in a vehicle that can confidently off-road and tow a 5,000 lb boat? Granted, not all at the same time!

What's not to love? The weirdness about the engineering is purely to scare off the faint of heart, where they go buy H2s...
:goink:

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

The cross-hatch on the cylinder liners leaves something to be desired. We ball honed the cylinders after a rebuild and made sure to set the rings during the engine break-in. The blow-by was reduced significantly.

To address the blow-by completely internal to the engine, would require a re-design of the intake manifold to incorporate a primary oil separator to catch particles 50um and larger and then a secondary unit tuned to catch the very small particles (where the current oil separator is located). The oil separator on the KJ is not optimized and lets the small oil mist through and if the oil level is too high there will be more oil mist produced.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:53 pm

JL Rockies wrote:

You have to have at least 1k posts before you can start reminding people of stuff.

Bwahahahahaha Owned. :ROTFL:

GDE - That sounds like a LOT of extra work, did it show any results in better performance / MPG for reducing the blow-by?

dieselsmoke · **Posted:** Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:15 pm

geordi wrote:

JL Rockies wrote:

You have to have at least 1k posts before you can start reminding people of stuff.

Bwahahahahaha Owned. :ROTFL:

GDE - That sounds like a LOT of extra work, did it show any results in better performance / MPG for reducing the blow-by?

No, not owned. Im not brain washed by the liberal media and gov't......

Cowpie1 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:38 am

Joe Romas wrote:

naturist wrote:

I also have a problem with what is called the EHM.
Besides being illegal, do you not understand that the single modification consisting of routing the blow-by back into the intake removed about 80% of the pollution pre-1967 vehicles made, and that by performing an EHM, you turn your vehicle into a pollution machine?

Quote:

I agree. PCV first was required in 1961 in California. This article explanes what "open" vs "closed" systems are :jester:

http://www.aa1car.com/library/pcv.htm
Also other then injecting oil sludge into the intake this first mandated polution control device didn't cut preformance like the many devices that followed :shock:

Perspective is everything. True, doing the EHM may be technically illegal, but not sure it is that big of a deal in the broad picture. Commercial diesel engine up thru early 2007 in semis have the same concept as the EHM. My 2006 15L Cummins ISX in my semi has the same EPA approved "legal" EHM as my 2006 CRD "illegal" EHM. Both vehicles are relatively the same age, but the ISX has 575,000 miles on it as of this weekend. There are roughly 3 million commercial vehicles operating in the U.S. with the same "legal" EHM (and EPA approved) as the less than 11,000 CRD's with only a few having the "illegal" EHM. Most of those commercial trucks put on 100,000+ miles a year at an average rate of 6 mpg (and have operated legally in California and other locations which the CRD was "illegal" to sell), while the CRD's probably do an average 20,000 miles a year at average 24 mpg. Since their was no legal mandate to plumb the crankcase ventilation back into the engine on commercial diesels until recently, I really am losing no sleep that my CRD has an EHM.

AZ CRD · **Posted:** Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:06 am

Cowpie1 wrote:

Perspective is everything. True, doing the EHM may be technically illegal, but not sure it is that big of a deal in the broad picture. Commercial diesel engine up thru early 2007 in semis have the same concept as the EHM. My 2006 15L Cummins ISX in my semi has the same EPA approved "legal" EHM as my 2006 CRD "illegal" EHM. Both vehicles are relatively the same age, but the ISX has 575,000 miles on it as of this weekend. There are roughly 3 million commercial vehicles operating in the U.S. with the same "legal" EHM (and EPA approved) as the less than 11,000 CRD's with only a few having the "illegal" EHM. Most of those commercial trucks put on 100,000+ miles a year at an average rate of 6 mpg (and have operated legally in California and other locations which the CRD was "illegal" to sell), while the CRD's probably do an average 20,000 miles a year at average 24 mpg. Since their was no legal mandate to plumb the crankcase ventilation back into the engine on commercial diesels until recently, I really am losing no sleep that my CRD has an EHM.

That commercial vehicles are exempt from certain standards is not really much of an argument. The light truck exemption from CAFE standards is one of the reasons for our continued and deepening reliance on foreign oil. Commercial exemption is not done because it makes sense, but because companies can buy lobbyists who can then buy legislators.

I consider myself a common sense environmentalist. You and I likely disagree on a number of things, but I happen to run a slightly filtered EHM and, like you, don't lose any sleep over it. There's a Kantian moral tenet that suggests that one act only in ways that one would wish to become universal law. If everyone in America switched to diesel tomorrow with or without CCV or EGR we'd be in a better place environmentally. Add to that that I run B50 converted WVO and the wife and I tend to keep vehicles until they're dead (wife drives a Mercedes with 162K, my Mercedes before the CRD was at 145K). Could I be greener? Of course. Who couldn't? The ultimate green solution would be to not drive at all, live off of the grid, and grow your own food.

Perspective and balance.

mackruss · **Posted:** Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:01 am

Rixram wrote:

nursecosmo wrote:

Rixram wrote:

I had photos, but ended up deleting them.

But, basically, I took the EHM and ran it into the airbox. I used a proper fitting on the side of the airbox. Inside the airbox, I zip-tied a marine piece that is commonly refered to as a "Bilge-Diaper", made of virgin cotton around the fitting. The bilge diaper catches the oil in suspension. I secured additional bilge diaper material to the bottom of the airbox to catch any oil drippings. The remainder of the gases are then pulled, sans oil, into the intake side of the filter. Nice clean air for my CRD, without any of the nastiness that was building up. I check the filter monthly, and so far, it is doing well.

Right.

Right as in "Good Idea", or right as in some form of sarcasm?

:CAMPING:

Note: added just because I thought the icon was cool.

In my humble opinion, not quite the right thing to have done for the VM Motori but the right thing to have done for the enviroment
and should keep the naturists happy.

Rixram · **Posted:** Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:37 am

mackruss wrote:

nursecosmo wrote:

Rixram wrote:

I had photos, but ended up deleting them.

But, basically, I took the EHM and ran it into the airbox. I used a proper fitting on the side of the airbox. Inside the airbox, I zip-tied a marine piece that is commonly refered to as a "Bilge-Diaper", made of virgin cotton around the fitting. The bilge diaper catches the oil in suspension. I secured additional bilge diaper material to the bottom of the airbox to catch any oil drippings. The remainder of the gases are then pulled, sans oil, into the intake side of the filter. Nice clean air for my CRD, without any of the nastiness that was building up. I check the filter monthly, and so far, it is doing well.

Right.

In my humble opinion, not quite the right thing to have done for the VM Motori but the right thing to have done for the enviroment
and should keep the naturists happy.

Not to mention that it is still an improvement, overall, for the engine. It just isn't the "perfect" solution. It is, however, a solution that a] I could afford to do and b] an overall improvement.

rstrandy · **Joined:** Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:36 pm **Posts:** 1

Remove the crankcase ventilator from the back of the valve cover. It is held on by three 8mm head bolts. Carefully pry the plastic cap off the ventilator. It is held on with I believe four clasp -hooks. Underneath this cap is a large rubber "valve" and a spring that holds the valve in the open position. Remove this spring and toss it into the nearest garbage can. Re-install the valve into the cap and snap it back into place. This will greatly reduce liquid blowby as verified by the diesel shop I own and operate. I really like these liberty diesels and own one myself.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:04 pm

RS,

Welcome to the board. This looks like a new thought that I have not heard about before. Can you explain further? Do you combine this mod with the EHM? Perhaps GDE can comment.

DOC

2.8L CRD Blow-By

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